Anti-education cuts demo - 10 November

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gypsy
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Nov 10 2010 16:26
Weeler wrote:
allybaba wrote:
The media ain't showing live video anymore(on bbc24) because the NUS asked them not to focus on the violence.

Yes, as ever the media always take their cue from the NUS. I'm watching live footage right now on two big screens.

Yeah I am aswell now. But at one stage it was just pre recorded stuff and thats what the bbc person said.

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jef costello
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Nov 10 2010 16:26

The police look pretty thin on the ground outside the HQ, but enough to hold it and mass reinforcements elswhere.
BBC announcing a group of police preparing to move to the entrance.

Mail's got some decent pics
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1328385/Tuition-fee-protests-turn-violent-students-smash-windows-Westminster.html

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klas batalo
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Nov 10 2010 16:32
action_now wrote:
mons wrote:
action_now:
I thought there was quite a sensible debate with both people making decent points.
Nothing explicitly says it was organised by an insurrectionist, but the tactic of a black block might suggest it, given it's a confrontational tactic pretty divorced from actual struggle and relies on affinity groups to work. Might not be. Maybe we'll find out tomorrow.

My comment was to an assertion that claimed the organiser was an insurrectionist, as some sort of slanderous comment. I wasn't bothering to intervene in the latter discussion,

The black bloc is a tactic that has been utilised by pretty much anyone describing themselves as an anarchist at some point or other and equating the I@ traditon to confrontation only shows the impotent forms of struggle advocated by many anarchos, aswell as a poor understanding of the ideas discussed by I@s.
But, what is this about the tactic being divorced from 'actual struggle'? Are not those that form affinity groups or black blocs not involved in the social struggle or are you trying to say that I@s aren't involved in actual struggle? Either way, both insinuations are absurd.

ya NEFAC used to bloc up, it is just a tactic... one that is not just restricted to I@, talking like that lets trots, etc black bait us...

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jef costello
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Nov 10 2010 16:35
Quote:
We oppose all cuts and we stand in solidarity with public sector workers and all poor disabled people. We oppose the marketisation of education, We call for direct action.

They just made a statement but I didn't catch most of it.
Sky news using the word anarchists constantly and prompting people to use it. BBC a bit better and had a long interview with a fairly sensible sounding student, who argued pretty well against cuts etc.

BBC Parliament, some twat talking about how proud he is when there are only about 10 people in the room.

gypsy
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Nov 10 2010 16:43
jef costello wrote:
Quote:
We oppose all cuts and we stand in solidarity with public sector workers and all poor disabled people. We oppose the marketisation of education, We call for direct action.

They just made a statement but I didn't catch most of it.
Sky news using the word anarchists constantly and prompting people to use it. BBC a bit better and had a long interview with a fairly sensible sounding student, who argued pretty well against cuts etc.

BBC Parliament, some twat talking about how proud he is when there are only about 10 people in the room.

Aye thats what Sky news read out. I think the statement also said- this is just the start. Funny thing is 'the media' don't seem to realise that an anarchist could also happen to be a student. black bloc

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jef costello
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Nov 10 2010 16:48
allybaba wrote:
jef costello wrote:
Quote:
We oppose all cuts and we stand in solidarity with public sector workers and all poor disabled people. We oppose the marketisation of education, We call for direct action.

They just made a statement but I didn't catch most of it.
Sky news using the word anarchists constantly and prompting people to use it. BBC a bit better and had a long interview with a fairly sensible sounding student, who argued pretty well against cuts etc.

BBC Parliament, some twat talking about how proud he is when there are only about 10 people in the room.

Aye thats what Sky news read out. I think the statement also said- this is just the start. Funny thing is 'the media' don't seem to realise that an anarchist could also happen to be a student. black bloc

Yeah, they also keep talking about masked groups carrying cricket bats which they do not have any footage of. There were some red and black flags there.

The BBC reporter is saying that many students have condemned the bviolence, but no one they have interviewed has said any such thing.

gypsy
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Nov 10 2010 20:48
jef costello wrote:
allybaba wrote:
jef costello wrote:
Quote:
We oppose all cuts and we stand in solidarity with public sector workers and all poor disabled people. We oppose the marketisation of education, We call for direct action.

They just made a statement but I didn't catch most of it.
Sky news using the word anarchists constantly and prompting people to use it. BBC a bit better and had a long interview with a fairly sensible sounding student, who argued pretty well against cuts etc.

BBC Parliament, some twat talking about how proud he is when there are only about 10 people in the room.

Aye thats what Sky news read out. I think the statement also said- this is just the start. Funny thing is 'the media' don't seem to realise that an anarchist could also happen to be a student. black bloc

Yeah, they also keep talking about masked groups carrying cricket bats which they do not have any footage of. There were some red and black flags there.

The BBC reporter is saying that many students have condemned the bviolence, but no one they have interviewed has said any such thing.

I heard a few earlier on bbc news 24 criticise it saying that they were appalled when they saw two female police officers injured and that 'anarchists' are the ones causing the violence (and cited the anarchist flag being waved on the roof).*edit-this was actually on sky news, they are using the clip in their news bulletin

Mike Harman
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Nov 10 2010 17:11
Weeler wrote:
jef costello wrote:
The BBC reporter is saying that many students have condemned the bviolence, but no one they have interviewed has said any such thing.

NUS condemned it and there were plenty of vox pops of liberal cunts at parliament square condemning it.

Yeah this was the 'Mike' twat actually at Millbank though claiming that students just outside, that he'd spoken to personally, were condemning the violence.

gypsy
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Nov 10 2010 17:25
Weeler wrote:
Its interesting to note nobody is really calling it a riot despite Millbank being totally smashed to shit. Overall the coverage is bordering on sympathetic.

Dailymail have. Btw do you hide your political views from your employers? I do anyway...Thought in your line of work its even more necessary.

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jef costello
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Nov 10 2010 17:46
Weeler wrote:
NUS condemned it and there were plenty of vox pops of liberal cunts at parliament square condemning it.

Apart from the NUS president's statement I've not seen any.

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flaneur
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Nov 10 2010 18:24

Fella in the NUS leading the anti-EMA cuts was interviewed on BBC News condemning the 'violence' and said 99% of protesters were peaceful.

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klas batalo
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Nov 10 2010 18:54

I don't get to say this much, but that guy is a real wanker.

Caiman del Barrio
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Nov 10 2010 19:15

Well done to all involved. I'm pretty sceptical about these kidna things generally, but they've achieved all that a demo ever really can achieve in forcing the issue onto the front pages. All three parties now look bad (Harman's attempted points scoring backfired after all), now they only need to oust the NUS fucknuts!

Next: occupations, walkouts, links with education workers, etc...

WorkersDreadnought
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Nov 10 2010 19:20

As the march passed the Tory HQ for the first time, people stormed the wrong building, smashing a few windows and leaving the office workers there looking quite bemused as to what the hell was going on.

I think most continued on to the end of the march after that, which was just the big screen on the street playing some really random looking anti-fees+cuts campaign video (there was images of baby lambs at one point?) before heading back to see loads of people massed outside the correct building.

The idea that it was an anarchist minority causing the trouble is mad, there were thousands of students taking part and were all well up for it. I actually bumped into a guy i went to school with and he thought it was amazing - and hes a sabattical at his uni lol. Other reports make no sense - 20/30 people inside? Youve only got to look at the photos to see there was way more than that. If there had been more room, even more students would have been in the immediate area surrounding the building, but the space was too small and there was loads more standing around in the street.

The one bad bit - the absolute dickhead who through a fire extinguisher down from the roof, landing near where protesters and police were battling each other. A comrade actually said he saw a policeman or woman get clipped by it i think, but not sure. This was followed by "STOP THROWING SHIT!" chant.

gypsy
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Nov 10 2010 19:48
WorkersDreadnought wrote:

The one bad bit - the absolute dickhead who through a fire extinguisher down from the roof, landing near where protesters and police were battling each other. A comrade actually said he saw a policeman or woman get clipped by it i think, but not sure. This was followed by "STOP THROWING SHIT!" chant.

Yeah sky news highlighted that guy/incident several times and the police below just managed to step out of the way of it. Otherwise that would have been quite a nasty injury.

WorkersDreadnought
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Nov 10 2010 19:57

BBC London news was really gunning for this. They usually have some pretence at pretneding to be ballanced but this time they just read out online message after online message of students and non-students condemning the riot. And channel four just interviewed three students, only one of whom defended what had happened, with one actually saying that the mets assessment that this was an embarrasement for london was correct, and that it went too far.

gypsy
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Nov 10 2010 21:13
Weeler wrote:
What I'm seeing from the bbc is

- Embarrassment to the police Watch
- In pictures: Tuition fees protest
- Protester backs direct action Watch
- Clegg on rack over tuition fees

Reasonably fair coverage for what they are.

Thats because after working for the mail online everything seems okay in comparison. wink I also don't mention my label in work, but will try and argue my corner if asked.

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jef costello
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Nov 10 2010 22:52

Ended up talking briefly to posh bloke on bus who was a former NUS president and is now a lawyer and was salivating about the prospect of bringing charges against them. I couldn't be bothered to argue with him, I've had my MP storm off down the street shouting at me already this week so I don't need the excitement smile

gypsy
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Nov 11 2010 00:15
Weeler wrote:
allybaba wrote:
Weeler wrote:
What I'm seeing from the bbc is

- Embarrassment to the police Watch
- In pictures: Tuition fees protest
- Protester backs direct action Watch
- Clegg on rack over tuition fees

Reasonably fair coverage for what they are.

Thats because after working for the mail online everything seems okay in comparison. wink I also don't mention my label in work, but will try and argue my corner if asked.

I dunno, do you read the mail online? Paul Dacre doesn't so the staff put up whatever they want really. I remember doing production on a column where S Moore was calling for the return of bash the rich marches. In Ireland they had two commie hacks on staff and a Trot Mep writing for them. Plus saying you've worked there makes liberals wet themselves.

Sky were doing some dodgy shit showing close up shots of people enjoying themselves wrecking up the place that will not just come back to haunt the poor students but mean Sky cameras will have to be removed from the vicinity of any militant actions in future. I dread the cover of tomorrow's paper carrying a 'Shop them' style cover with pictures of 'trouble makers'.

I have read a few articles although to be fair I don't usually read it online. However when I do the comments section under each article are usually littered with right wing middle class views. In general they are quite infamous for their racist crap with richard littlejohn being the ultimate cunt, have you ever met him? Call me a liberal if you like wink

Yeah I think your fears will come true, but if you are gonna smash up shit infront of cameras its wise to cover your face, saw some young people actually what looked liked showing off to the cameras with their faces in clear view kicking in some windows etc. Whether they were drunk/drugged up or naive who knows...

Caiman del Barrio
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Nov 11 2010 00:13

TBH if the NUS condemn it anymore violently they're gonna lose any semblance of control on campus anyway, as students are clearly fucked off and only look to them to tell them where and when to be fucked off.

Less maturely, that Aaron Porter looks like he could be taken in a fight by Revol... wink

Mike Harman
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Nov 11 2010 01:23

Yeah the NUS were more vicious than either the police spokespeople or Boris Johnson at least from the clips that were put out. What's the odds they refuse to organise any more marches? Of course that could mean people take actions on campus instead which could only be a good thing.

Automaton
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Nov 11 2010 01:58

There was one masked guy with a cricket bat, to be fair it was found inside the building, I have pic, not sure if I should put it up, some other people with better cameras got him. They'll probably surface at some point.

Mike Harman
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Nov 11 2010 02:56

Interesting-ish article by the BBC on the Millbank trashing, which goes against the official line of tiny group of anarchists:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11729912

BBC wrote:
The level of anger and the swiftness of the violence seemed to have caught everyone by surprise. It had lurched without warning from a well-organised, up-beat publicity event to something much more destructive.

Who were the rioters? It wasn't obvious from close-up.

[..]

There were claims that the damage had been caused by a hard-core of violent protest junkies who had deliberately come for trouble.

But it had been an unlikely collection of people crowding around the smashed glass.

There were young middle class students, perhaps on their first march, alongside anarchists with masked faces and gangs of what seemed like even younger teenagers, swept along by events.

Proper Guardian cuntishness:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/nov/10/student-protests-tory-demonstrations

Samotnaf
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Nov 11 2010 06:52

The NUS president will clearly make an excellent future Home Secretary or Foreign Mini-star, like Jack Straw before him, who was head of the NUS in the late 60s/early 70s: as a rising student bureaucrat, he even condemned the largely peaceful occupation of the Greek embassy (by, amongst others, Solidarity - including Andy Anderson) after the colonel's coup in 1967. Clearly Aaron Porter is merely following in his predecessor's footsteps - a perfectly logical career move on his part.

But with all the excitement of this exciting event, nobody seems to have noticed this party political broadcast on behalf of the coalition and the Labour Party shown last night.

gypsy
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Nov 11 2010 08:03
Weeler wrote:
allybaba wrote:
Weeler wrote:
What I'm seeing from the bbc is

- Embarrassment to the police Watch
- In pictures: Tuition fees protest
- Protester backs direct action Watch
- Clegg on rack over tuition fees

Reasonably fair coverage for what they are.

Thats because after working for the mail online everything seems okay in comparison. wink I also don't mention my label in work, but will try and argue my corner if asked.

I dunno, do you read the mail online? Paul Dacre doesn't so the staff put up whatever they want really. I remember doing production on a column where S Moore was calling for the return of bash the rich marches. In Ireland they had two commie hacks on staff and a Trot Mep writing for them. Plus saying you've worked there makes liberals wet themselves.
.

Don't know if you know Charlotte Gill-but this headline is now on the dailymail online website-

Hijacking of a very middle class protest: Anarchists cause chaos as 50,000 students take to streets over fees

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1328385/TUITION-FEES-PROTEST-Anarchists-cause-chaos-50k-students-streets.html#ixzz14xUQD1U0

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flaneur
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Nov 11 2010 10:13

Newsnight had the inevitable "why did the protest have to turn nasty" debate with the predictable choices of Porter and Simon Hughes, Lib Dem minister. There was however a mature student refusing to play ball with the silly questions about why windows need to be smashed, was involved in the fun and games in Millbank and got the last word by telling Hughes that this is just the start, with direct action and a slew of occupations to come which she fully supports.

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Entdinglichung
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Nov 11 2010 10:16

http://anticuts.com/2010/11/11/stand-with-the-millbank-protesters-against-victimisation/

WorkersDreadnought
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Nov 11 2010 10:19
allybaba wrote:
Yeah I think your fears will come true, but if you are gonna smash up shit infront of cameras its wise to cover your face, saw some young people actually what looked liked showing off to the cameras with their faces in clear view kicking in some windows etc. Whether they were drunk/drugged up or naive who knows...

It was because they were new to this kind of thing and loving it. So innocent naivety yes, but it also shows they were not a hardcore of anarchists.

I have my own definition of working + middle class, but if we are talking in cultural terms in what the media likes to call middle and working class, then its bollocks that the riot was made up of middle class+anarchists. I saw and heard the accent of plenty of london rude boys and chavs (like i say, an ignorant cultural analysis here, but one that is on the media's terms) outside the Tory HQ, and a lot of younger ones from colleges. Indeed, when the wrong building got stormed the first time around, some of these kids were among the first to charge in!

WorkersDreadnought
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Nov 11 2010 10:23
flaneur wrote:
Newsnight had the inevitable "why did the protest have to turn nasty" debate with the predictable choices of Porter and Simon Hughes, Lib Dem minister. There was however a mature student refusing to play ball with the silly questions about why windows need to be smashed, was involved in the fun and games in Millbank and got the last word by telling Hughes that this is just the start, with direct action and a slew of occupations to come which she fully supports.

Im about to watch that, but before i get to it, im guessing that the "mature student" you refer to was Claire Soloman, president of the University of London Union, union for all UofL students. Shes a trot connect to counterfire i think, but shes very militant. A brief debate as to whether she should be kicked off the ASN e-list was sparked up like the day before the march, but nothing has come of it yet. Apparently she has been told off by fellow trots by descibing us (im not sure whether she means anarchists or the left in general) as "cousins".

gypsy
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Nov 11 2010 11:00
WorkersDreadnought wrote:
allybaba wrote:
Yeah I think your fears will come true, but if you are gonna smash up shit infront of cameras its wise to cover your face, saw some young people actually what looked liked showing off to the cameras with their faces in clear view kicking in some windows etc. Whether they were drunk/drugged up or naive who knows...

It was because they were new to this kind of thing and loving it. So innocent naivety yes

Yeah hopefully they don't get punished/sentenced. Not looking good though, with Cameron saying today that "the full force of the law" will be used against people who assaulted police or damaged property.