Blair's statement in full

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Mike Harman
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Joined: 7-02-06
Aug 5 2005 12:42
Blair's statement in full

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,15935,1543385,00.html

some choice excerpts:

Quote:

The new grounds will include fostering hatred, advocating violence to further a person's beliefs or justifying or validating such violence. These grounds will be subject to a short consultation period which will finish this month.

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Should legal obstacles arise, we will legislate further, including, if necessary amending the Human Rights Act, in respect of the interpretation of the ECHR.

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Once the new grounds take effect, there will be a list drawn up of specific extremist websites, bookshops, centres, networks and particular organisations of concern.

Quote:

This will include an offence of condoning or glorifying terrorism. The sort of remarks made in recent days should be covered by such laws. But this will also be applied to justifying or glorifying terrorism anywhere, not just in the UK.

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4. We have already powers to strip citizenship from those individuals with British or dual nationality who act in a way that is contrary to the interests of this country. We will now consult on extending these powers, applying them to naturalised citizens engaged in extremism and making the procedures simpler and more effective.

Quote:

9. We will proscribe Hizb-ut-Tahrir and the successor organisation of Al Muhajiroun. We will also examine the grounds of proscription to widen them and put proposals forward in the new legislation.

bugrey
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Joined: 21-03-05
Aug 5 2005 13:04
Quote:
But this will also be applied to justifying or glorifying terrorism anywhere, not just in the UK.

justifying terrorism.

is that like saying

"hey this is what happens when you illegally invade countries, kill thousands of their inhabitants, mistreat hundreds more, so its not entirely Unjustifiable blah blah blah foreign policy mutter mutter mutter think of the children"

or

"the infidel dogs deserved to die"

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PaulMarsh
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Joined: 26-09-03
Aug 5 2005 13:07

On the issue of proscribing groups, just before the Terrorism Act 2000 came in, there was some attempt in the media to imply that certain UK groups would be banned.

The ALF and C18 were specifically mentioned in The Sunday Times. At the time Class War was victim to a series of scurrilous articles, and an attempted infiltration by that newspaper. We certainly feared that once the government had proscribed a couple of UK groups, they would then expand it to a range of others. Including us. Some of the points in this speech used to describe Islamic organisations could just as easily be applied to CW, Freedom, or even I suspect this website.

However come the 2000 Terrorism Act, and all the groups that were were banned were foreign, or one's with tiny memberships in the UK that had pissed off other governments. Thus certain Turkish parties were banned to appease the Turkish and German governments (the Germans had banned a whole range of Turkish and Kurdish groups years earlier) certain Muslim organisations to please the Indian government, and even a couple of others to please the Sri Lankan government.

As mental as Al-Mujharoun and Hizb-ut-Tahrir are, this is quite clearly a case of the UK government deciding to ban INTERNAL political groups they don't like. And you can bet your life they will do it next to groups on the far-right and far-left, as well as to animal rights groups, if they think they can get away with it.

Three points on the deportation issues:

Retrospective laws are always wrong, and bad news full stop. Will these laws apply retrospectively, or from a set date?

We need to be really careful we don't end up looking like a bunch of bleeding heart leftie liberals here. If some lunatic Islamo-fascist is deported for breaching rules he knew existed, I personally will shed no tears for that person, just as no Canadian anarchists shed tears when the German born fascist Ernst Zundel was recently deported from Canada to Germany, simply because he had been saying things for years that the Canadian government did not like.

Secondly it is not the first time some very draconian laws have existed in the UK in this field. Banning laws often prevented certain Irish Republicans (and loyalists?) from visiting mainland Britain in the 1980s, even though those people were British citizens, living in the United Kingdom and were British passport holders.

I could certainly see a situation where other governments, and the British police, will want Blair to restrict the movements of British Muslims who have trained with Al-Qaeda. Either the figure of 3000 the Met talk about here is a lie (quite possible) or I suspect that those 3000 will find their chances of being let into any other country, should they try to leave the UK, is pretty slim.

Mike Harman
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Joined: 7-02-06
Aug 5 2005 13:42
bugrey wrote:
Quote:
But this will also be applied to justifying or glorifying terrorism anywhere, not just in the UK.

justifying terrorism.

is that like saying

"hey this is what happens when you illegally invade countries, kill thousands of their inhabitants, mistreat hundreds more, so its not entirely Unjustifiable blah blah blah foreign policy mutter mutter mutter think of the children"

or

"the infidel dogs deserved to die"

No it's:

Quote:

The new grounds will include fostering hatred, advocating violence to further a person's beliefs or justifying or validating such violence

Which includes some protests, any violent revolution/insurrection, possibly history teaching as well (French Revolution and Section 28 spring to mind).

Certainly Lazlo's recent thread'd fall under it.

Con Carroll
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Joined: 18-11-04
Aug 5 2005 13:55

cheers Paul on the info I didn't know that Cw was been target, we must be doing something right. when we stand with the working class and other alienated people its not easy. it can be more sexier to walk away and work on political issues which are trendy, far off places and become like so many of the so called political activists and become respectable. the day CW activists bow to this liberal agenda count me out.

Remember there are people who are working class who don't have that political voice watching us who believe in class politics. it is enough to keep us going. keep doing what we are doing and believe in ourselves

we should ask ourselves why are there people who call themselves left political activists who can't stand the word Class war. it is because they have become respectable and in most areas become parasites and poverty pimps in the povery industry. who have stopped attacking the system but who instead attack people who experience poverty blaming us. be proud of been working class and keep fighting.