Prositution tolerance zones

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3rdseason
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Jan 27 2005 11:56
Prositution tolerance zones

Britains first prostitution tolerance zone could be set up in Liverpool within months as councillors backed the move last night. The Home Secretary is being asked to approve the scheme. Up to 5 areas could become similar vice-friendly zones.

What do people think of this?

Edit: Im not sure what to think of this. Initially it seemed a good idea but then I read...

"This goes against the view of the English Collective of Prostitutes, which fears that zones will increase violence, but it reflects the policy of the International Union of Sex Workers. The collective says that most women refuse to work in the zones, the police wash their hands of the area, and attacks go up." neutral

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1398453,00.html

Altho in a survey in Liverpool of residents, businesses and sexworkers 83% were in favour of a managed zone. I'd be interested to see what the percentage would be if only the answers of the sex workers themselves were taken into account.

Also, Im not sure why these street prostitutes cant just work in brothels which everyone knows exists but the police already turn a blind eye to. Is it because of blatant drug addiction or something? confused

Thora
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Jan 27 2005 12:28
3rdseason wrote:
Also, Im not sure why these street prostitutes cant just work in brothels which everyone knows exists but the police already turn a blind eye to. Is it because of blatant drug addiction or something? confused

I remember watching something about prostitution somewhere where it had been legalised - Sydney I think. Street prostitution was still illegal, but brothels were well managed, high health and safety standards etc. It was a legitimate business and workers had the same rights as any other employee. However there were still prostitutes on the streets as those with AIDs, drug addictions, illegal immigrants and under-18s couldn't get safe work in the brothels.

3rdseason
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Jan 27 2005 12:33
Thora wrote:
However there were still prostitutes on the streets as those with AIDs, drug addictions, illegal immigrants and under-18s couldn't get safe work in the brothels.

Yeah I would guess it would be these people who can't work in brothels in the UK... and to be honest apart from the illegal immigrants its fair enough that people who run brothels dont want those people there isnt it?

Also, I read an interview with a prostitute and he said he just prefers to work the street. *shrug*

Thora
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Jan 27 2005 12:54
3rdseason wrote:
and to be honest apart from the illegal immigrants its fair enough that people who run brothels dont want those people there isnt it?

Yes, fair enough. All it goes to show though is that legalisation/regulation cannot protect the most vulnerable sex workers.

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Jacques Roux
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Jan 27 2005 14:15

Saw an article in the Indypendent about this, they talked to a prostitute who works that area who said it wont make shit all difference.

Not knowing anything about the situation, i'd go with her analysis smile

AnarchoAl
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Jan 27 2005 17:23

There have been tolerance zones in Edinburgh before, they had to stop because of resident's complaints.

3rdseason
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Jan 27 2005 18:38
AnarchoAl wrote:
There have been tolerance zones in Edinburgh before, they had to stop because of resident's complaints.

In the article it said the edinburgh ones had to stop cos it was technically illegal cos they hadn't gone thru the right legal procedure.

random
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Jan 27 2005 18:44

what happens to the women who live or work in the area who aren't prostitutes? having lived in 'red light' areas, i know that being followed, kerb crawled, propositioned, harassed, attacked, mugged, assaulted, shouted at, and stalked happen all the bloody time. not that i think that prostitutes should have to suffer any of these things, but making 'tolerance zones' will add to the daily harassment and assaults on all the women who spend any time there. and these women will all be of the working or under classes.

AnarchoAl
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Jan 27 2005 18:52

Interesting point Random. I've always struggled to figure out the best solution as regards prostitution. Obviously abolishing money would make the issue a million times simpler, but in the meantime...?

random
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Jan 27 2005 18:56

i dont know what the answer is either. but i do think that creating 'tolerance zones' in 'poor' (hate the word) areas puts a whole lot of women in a really shit position.

3rdseason
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Jan 27 2005 19:02
random wrote:
making 'tolerance zones' will add to the daily harassment and assaults on all the women who spend any time there.

Yeah that is an issue but supposedly these areas aren't residential areas. There are probably a handful of people there tho.

AnarchoAI wrote:
abolishing money would make the issue a million times simpler...

Money isnt the only thing people trade for sex.

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Jacques Roux
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Jan 27 2005 19:03

Surely the answer is to support sex workers take control of their jobs and improve their working conditions? Now how does one do that is another Q

AnarchoAl
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Jan 27 2005 19:08
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Money isnt the only thing people trade for sex.

True, but the fact that you need money to survive is one of the big things that drives people into prostitution (as with any other job), and is responsible for much alienation and exploitation. I didn't say the abolition of money would fix everything.

random
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Jan 27 2005 19:10

are there plans to put extra money into making these areas as safe as possible? if the zones are non residential, will there be safe transport for prostitutes going home? will there be anything set up within the zones for prostitutes to come and talk confidentially about whatever they need to, and report any violence they have suffered? will pimps be allowed to operate in the zones, or will prostitutes be protected so that they make work for themselves and not under threat or coercion?

i have a lot of questions about all this.

3rdseason
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Jan 27 2005 19:10
AnarchoAl wrote:
I didn't say the abolition of money would fix everything.

True.. you didn't. Hmmm people could still trade drugs for sex or housing for sex or whatnot. neutral

AnarchoAl
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Jan 27 2005 19:14

Well I'd hope that under an anarchist communist society housing would be no problem (being free), and we'd have sorted drugs out too in some manner (exactly how sounds like a giant debate of doom).

3rdseason
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Jan 27 2005 19:19

Drugs will always be there. But lets not discuss this here or now (see how I got the last word in then closed the topic?? wink )

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Jacques Roux
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Jan 27 2005 19:24

Theres already a thread on drugs in the archive somewhere anyway...

phoebe
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Jan 28 2005 13:17

I don't think ghettoising prostitutes is a good thing to be doing at all. I expect it's what a number of people want (get prostitutes out of the way somewhere so they're not on your front door step but have them available only a bus journey away - convenient isn't it!)

I think it can only serve to put prostitutes at more risk by marginalising them. Also, in a country where the internet is readily accessible for advertising, noone really needs to walk streets anymore. There's no "need" for red light districts and it doesn't need to all be so fucking dangerous for people.

I (personally) think sex work should be completely legalised, anywhere that isn't a public place in front of kids or whatever. Prostitutes (whilst we still have a state) should also be given a legal right to safety at work. The issue of actually making sex workers safe from attacks rather than just being able to react to them is a really hard one. Unionisation and joint dues going towards security costs might help. Who knows.

Pepe
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Jan 28 2005 14:57

The idea for this tolerance zone came about because some councillor's wife got propositioned. It's not the first step to regulated prostitution - it's to keep it out of the public's face. They want the prostitutes in light-industrial areas which are practically deserted at night - obviously this is more dangerous for them. But more working class women getting beaten and murdered is obvioulsy a small price to pay so that middle class women don't get mistaken for prostitutes.

redyred
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Jan 30 2005 17:54
revol68 wrote:
dear god Jess a half sensible post eek

The old CAG magic is doing its work wink

Caiman del Barrio
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Jan 30 2005 18:01

So...what's a temporary solution for prostitution under capitalism??

I'd suggest some sort of safehouse/brothel kinda thing where pimps aren't fucking allowed and the women can be kept safe and protected.

redyred
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Jan 30 2005 18:06

Yeah definately legalised brothels would be the best way forward, it would be the easiest to keep safe and regulated.

random
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Jan 31 2005 18:20

'If you don't take a job as a prostitute, we can stop your benefits'

Quote:
A 25-year-old waitress who turned down a job providing "sexual services'' at a brothel in Berlin faces possible cuts to her unemployment benefit under laws introduced this year.

Prostitution was legalised in Germany just over two years ago and brothel owners – who must pay tax and employee health insurance – were granted access to official databases of jobseekers.

Under Germany's welfare reforms, any woman under 55 who has been out of work for more than a year can be forced to take an available job – including in the sex industry – or lose her unemployment benefit. Last month German unemployment rose for the 11th consecutive month to 4.5 million, taking the number out of work to its highest since reunification in 1990.

AnarchoAl
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Jan 31 2005 18:23

Holy fuck! shock shock shock shock shock shock

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Steven.
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Jan 31 2005 18:29

Yeah that welfare thing came up in Holland too. I think the legal aspects of it were being looked at, cos there was nothing preventing women's benefits being stopped if they didn't become prostitutes. I have a feeling this is now not the case, but not totally sure...

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Steven.
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Jan 31 2005 19:19
revol68 wrote:
especially when Jack does them for half that grin

Bloody scab angry

Garner
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Feb 2 2005 17:26

This story actually looks rather dubious, according to snopes. (The Torygraph making shit up? Whoda thunk it.) I guess it could have happened though...

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