Was this a cop car?

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Anonymous
Jul 6 2005 19:17
Was this a cop car?

Cos if it wasn't why's it being smashed up?!

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Jul 6 2005 19:29

Hi

I had the same misgivings too. I think this sort of stuff always happens, it's embarrassing isn't it?

Happened in my day anyway. Have to admit, been guilty of it myself.

We can only hope it’s the impetuousness of youth, hopefully in a few years the protagonist will look back on it all and wince.

Love

Chris

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Jul 6 2005 19:32

do we know it was actually anarchists/black bloc who did it, there's loads of kids from the schemes who'd be partial to a bit of that

it doesn't seem to clear from that pic who said individual represents or whether it was filthmobile or not

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Jul 6 2005 20:19

Hi

You can feel the love all around. It's, like, a new vision. Just ask revol68.

Chris

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Jul 6 2005 20:31

i know your always moanin, but you jump start my seratonin

Kidda
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Jul 6 2005 23:25

smile smile

its amazing how much some of you have changed

smile smile wink

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Jul 7 2005 06:33

I hope the people slagging this guy also slagged rioters in Brixton, Tottenham Salford, and Handsworth etc in the 80s and 90s, who when they rioted did not exactly ignore private cars.

Should Trots use this incident for a "black bloc = ...." rant, I do hope they will be able to produce examples from Socialist Worker of where they condemned people in the UK for such incidents in the past.

Pepe
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Jul 7 2005 07:47

I saw the above incident on the news, and it seemed clear from what the newsrerader was saying that it's not a cop car.

sad

It is quite a flash car though!

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Jul 7 2005 08:15

you get all yr info from state media jess!

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Jul 7 2005 10:51

there is quite a clear difference between private cars getting damaged in a community uprising, and some greek nihilist who's bored that british police haven't teargassed him/her and given the opportunity for molotov fueled excitement deciding to break the window of some random car they're walking past. i mean, surely even in the warped mind of someone who thought that was a valid criticism of capitalism, the corporate news camera filming them do it was a more worthy target?

on the other hand, yesterday was certainly much better tv than i was expecting.

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Jul 7 2005 11:00
GenerationTerrorist wrote:
there is quite a clear difference between private cars getting damaged in a community uprising, and some greek nihilist who's bored that british police haven't teargassed him/her and given the opportunity for molotov fueled excitement deciding to break the window of some random car they're walking past.

yeah it's not that hard to see the distinction, fuck sake even hoods rioting here smashing car windows is distinct from some activist in gleneagles hoping for another genoa wanting to FuCk $h1T Up!. It's still fucked either way that someone would just smash a random car window.

Cinders
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Jul 7 2005 11:08
xConorx wrote:
GenerationTerrorist wrote:
there is quite a clear difference between private cars getting damaged in a community uprising, and some greek nihilist who's bored that british police haven't teargassed him/her and given the opportunity for molotov fueled excitement deciding to break the window of some random car they're walking past.

yeah it's not that hard to see the distinction, fuck sake even hoods rioting here smashing car windows is distinct from some activist in gleneagles hoping for another genoa wanting to FuCk $h1T Up!. It's still fucked either way that someone would just smash a random car window.

the difference between an anarchist and the media defnition of "anarchist"

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Jul 7 2005 12:00

I have seen the clip several times, and the attack seemed OTT IMO. I think people calling the situatuion a riot, need to go back and look at the context, getting carried away in the heat of the moment is one thing, being silly after having a skirmish with the cops is unjustifiable.

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Jul 7 2005 13:22

who exactly are you attacking for this incident jack, what information do you have that the rest of us don't about the perpetrators of the incident

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Jul 7 2005 13:27

so you know for sure it wasn't filthmobile?

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Jul 7 2005 13:28
xConorx wrote:

yeah it's not that hard to see the distinction, fuck sake even hoods rioting here smashing car windows is distinct from some activist in gleneagles hoping for another genoa wanting to FuCk $h1T Up!. It's still fucked either way that someone would just smash a random car window.

There is a surprizingly intense rush to judgement on this - it certainly looked silly (the guy even missed the car first time!) but we actually don't know whose car this was or what the circumstance were.

From the picture the car is in the middle of the road and thus must have been abandoned by its occupant. It is not in a driveway or parked by the side of the road. So the occupant might have been a local resident. Or it might have been special branch. I don't know - do you?

But really in the context of everything that happened one smashed car window seems like a rather odd thing to be getting excited about.

BB
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Jul 7 2005 13:39
Jack wrote:
However, being involved int he anarchist movement, I know well enough that there are plenty of mental scumbags who think that all cars are legitmate targets because OIL CAUSES WARZ MAAAN.

Seen some fuckin stinking hippy doing it before, on an RTS, family inside car, 2 little girls shitting themselves, he soon got off when i told him to!

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Jul 7 2005 13:45

@ jack

first off, don't put words in my mouth you sanctimonious self rightousness shit (violence of capital yadda yadda yadda) - connect my post to any of those sentiments now or withdraw it please, either argue against what was said or not, don't make up convenient arguments that don't exist

do you know the identity of the attacker - yes/no?

do you know the identity of the attacked - yes/no?

as it's clearly no to both of these questions, why make such a bold claim of what the events are and the subsequent condemnation of it

oh i know, because you're a fuckin know it all smart arse, aint you

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Jul 7 2005 14:09

show me where my post conveys your made up argument or withdraw it, it's not good enough to retort back to "the usual argument". I have the decency to address the points that you say, not the points that i make up in my head that i think you are saying, you'd do well to do the same, rather than the pompous assumption that you know what someone is about to say in advance of them saying it

ok, so you your point on this incident is actually nothing to do with this incident at all, fair enough at least that clarifies that

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Jul 7 2005 15:03
oisleep wrote:
do we know it was actually anarchists/black bloc who did it, there's loads of kids from the schemes who'd be partial to a bit of that

When I was in Gleneagles yesterday there was quite a few wee ned types in amongst the protesters, some of them even had ski masks with them. 'Course there was also a few "anarchists" who were more than ready to throw stuff at the police, but in a number of cases it wasn't even us that started it!

Note: Dont agree with randomly attacking ordinary people's cars/property. If it was a police vehicle it might be different but I doubt that it was.

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Jul 7 2005 21:53

PM received jack requesting de-escalation in arguments about this issue

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Jul 8 2005 09:22

A WSM member just posted quite a long report on yesterday at the camp including details of what is probably the car under discussion and the alleged breaking of locals windows. A good warning not to presume we know everything because of what we have seen on TV or in papers

In the evening others in the camp went to a meeting between the Eco-village and local activists. The people they met were community workers or activists who all lived locally and would have been broadly against g8 activity. We expected hostility and but didn't find it. It was decided that the residents of Stirling would be invited to dinner in the camp on Friday. Every Friday and Saturday they have a stall in the center of Stirling and it was agreed that some of us would join them on their stall this week.

Those present from the camp wanted to find out if we could donate money to anyone who had the windows of their homes broken. The residents said that besides newspaper reports, they hadn't met anyone who knew anyone to whom this had actually happened, but they would try to find out more. I have spoken to quite a few people on the black block action and haven't been able to find any who saw damage to domestic houses. One told me that he saw an unmarked police car being trashed (it was known to be a police car because their were hats inside) and it is possible that this car is being presented within the press as one owned by local inhabitants.

From http://www.anarkismo.net/newswire.php?story_id=894

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Jul 8 2005 10:15

oh, what a shame. cry

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Jul 8 2005 10:47

apologies to jack for the personal insults yesterday, was an emotional day here in london, and i'm not proud that i lowered myself to his level and insulted him on a personal level, anyway....

Jack wrote:

Even if it is a cop car (which, lets be honest, 99% chance, it's not

are you still sticking to the 99% chance figure in light of joe's report above - where did you get your 99% figure from anyroads, what information was it based on, or was it all in your head, like the counter arguments you keep on making up and attributing to people?

Cinders
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Jul 8 2005 11:00
Jack wrote:

Come on mate, don't pretend there aren't nutters who call themselves anarchists and go around smashing shit up at random...

And even if they are attacking "valid" targets, I still think it's a tactically poor choice at this stage in the struggle.

Aye, but they're not the majority in reality. The media likes to call them the majority though....all those scary anarchist boogiemen comin to get you black bloc

Mind you, I agree with you that they are out there. And agreed that it's not the best way to bring positive attention to the cause.

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Jul 8 2005 11:31

it's here that we should have a look at what our greek comrades do, as there the nihilist types are numerous and do far more damage than anything the fools over here do, whilst there also seems to be a comparatively large sane movement (that i think alot of the nutty ones move into after a few years). i believe their strategy consists of a) getting on with their decent work so that people know that all anarchists are not loons, and b) beating the shit out of the nihilists when they step too far out of line. at least that was the impression i got in thessaloniki.

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Jul 8 2005 11:36
Jack wrote:
Based on the fact that 1. It doesn't look like a cop car and 2. Based on experience, black bloc aren't going to discriminate.

But as I said, it's not this specific incident that's important.

Come on mate, don't pretend there aren't nutters who call themselves anarchists and go around smashing shit up at random...

And even if they are attacking "valid" targets, I still think it's a tactically poor choice at this stage in the struggle.

are all cop cars meant to look like cop cars, i thought that was the point confused

i'm not pretending there aren't nutters who call themselves anarchists and go round smashing shit up at random, but as stated they a minority

glancing at the topic of this thread which is "was this a cop car" is why i'm arguing on this topic in specific not the wider situation

i always like to stick tightly to the topic me <proud smiley>

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Jul 8 2005 11:45
Jack wrote:
Well, this being a LIBERTARIAN board, we don't all stick to your fascist "Topic hugging" hierarchical statist restrictions. roll eyes

grin

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Jul 8 2005 11:56

There is a pretty good BB video posted to indymedia at http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/07/317377.html - in it towards the end you can see what looks like the same sort of car with police vans (but this one is grey) where the driver is wearing a flourescent jacket of some sort. So it may well be they had a number of these cars for transport / spotting purposes.

Interestingly the video also has a couple of local women in their dressing gowns outside their house waving to the passing BB - I'd say at this point that taking a big step back from the media spin is probably a good idea

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Jul 8 2005 12:02
Jack wrote:
Well, this being a LIBERTARIAN board, we don't all stick to your fascist "Topic hugging" hierarchical statist restrictions. roll eyes

i know, you'd be fucked argumentally speaking for starters if you did

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Jul 8 2005 12:04
oisleep wrote:
Jack wrote:
Well, this being a LIBERTARIAN board, we don't all stick to your fascist "Topic hugging" hierarchical statist restrictions. roll eyes

i know, you'd be fucked argumentally speaking for starters if you did

Nah, Jack's an admin, so anything he says is automatically on-topic.

tongue @ Jack