What initiatives do the Lib Com'ers propose?

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Mike Harman
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Jul 24 2005 15:27
blacklisted wrote:
However, I do think that direct action, sometimes even demos, public meetings and articles etc aimed at 'supporting' people in struggle can be a great thing. And I make no distinction here whether its being done for working class struggle here in UK, South America, Africa or anywhere else. To me it can be the same as some of the 'intervention' that you talked about HI doing with a struggle here in UK. Even raising funds etc is still good practical solidarity - or can be. Id admit though that often at the moment its bollocks!

Yeah I don't think it's a bad thing necessarily, we just need to be honest about what we can actually achieve. There seems to be little disagreement on this as far as I can tell.

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On this subject, what do you mean by the last bit? Not enough groups, or not enough decent (A) groups or what? And what do the AF actually do? Im not being a dick, I genuinely dont know but have just never got around to asking anyone.

The AF primarily produces and distributes propaganda - Organise and Resistance, the website, and pamphlets on specific issues. It tries to help people set up local groups and acts as a contact point for people interested in anarchist communist politics. It's also federated with the IAF-IFA - international of anarchist federations, which allows for exchange of information with groups around the world, including face-to-face at conferences.

The "not up to much" is a reference to the fact that none of the feds in the UK have a high membership by anyone's standards, nor are all the local groups in the UK attached to any of them (HSG, HI, WAG and many more local groups sometimes have individual members who are also members of a federation, but they aren't local sections of a federation). Also due to the small membership, in some cases many of the members are individuals without local groups (although at least a national fed stops them being completely isolated), and many of the 'local' groups cover very wide geographical areas - several towns, or single groups in very large metropolitan areas. This isn't true internationally - there's some very big groups in other countries, and the same is true for the IWA/solfed.

To be honest I'm a very inactive member - since I'm mainly involved with this site and HI, all of which I got involved with at the same time which meant I spread myself a bit thin. There are other AF members on here who know a lot more about it and could give better answers.

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Steven.
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Jul 27 2005 19:44

I'd just like to say I agree with pretty much all of catch's posts here, particularly wrt what we'd consider useful activity. I don't have a problem with people who want to do "actions", adbust, summit-hop or whatever - I've done all this in the past - I just think it achieves nothing really.

gangster
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Jul 31 2005 12:12

Catch Said "It's a cliché, but think global, act local makes plenty of sense to me.

Do you think it's possible to act globally?"

I DO think it is possible to act globally, I'm sure a lot of people helping to construct globalism from below would think so too - as oppossed to globalisation from above ie. capitalism... There are at least 4 different levels you can work on politically, and if you wanted to nit pick could subdivide this even further... Start from your local council ward, do town wide organising, do regional organising (any large organisation breaks up its regions somehow), then there is national work, and international work - the latter is of course globalism from below... The fight for strucutres of global governance obviously has working class implications, and you can either try to affect it or build something else - or abstain from the debate as some appear to want to.

redyred wrote:
JDMF wrote:
redyred wrote:
Try telling that to a single mum on scraping by on benefits, or someone doing a shitty job on the minimum wage.

...here we go again... Could you guys stop monopolising the "oppressed voice" and cut out the patronising bullshit please?

This is as annoying as G8 protesters quoting some Sudanese kid dying of hunger being happy to see westeners angrily protesting against the global powers... on the other hand i actually believe that many people who bear the brunt of the current global economic structures are happy to hear about resistance :)

The difference is that single mums and people doing shit work jobs on low pay are people I know, work with, live in the same neighbourhood as etc. Starving Sudanese children aren't.

But anyway it was a serious point - what does the G8 summit protest have to offer the class?

Good points JDmf. As for Redyblue, the history of protest shows us many things, it happens in many ways, and your blinkered viewpoint is just so ultra left - outside of any identifiable @/Marxist current apart from sects and cults... wink And is always likely to remain so. As for offering the class anything, the question is just so liberal and philanthropic, as if we have to do it FOR the class. Bullshit. I like protest/resistance etc - without it there is no class struggle/consciousness/formation etc [I think similarly to popular historical Humanist/@/Marxist currents...]

And if you want your (false) question answering - I really can't see your ultra localism offering the class as a whole anything - even on a regional level. I could be wrong on this, but I haven't seen evidence contrary to this assertion.

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Steven.
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Jul 31 2005 13:32
gangster wrote:
Start from your local council ward, do town wide organising, do regional organising (any large organisation breaks up its regions somehow), then there is national work, and international work - the latter is of course globalism from below...

He has already mention his involvement in the Internation of Anarchist Federations. I could of course quiz you on your international work, but I'm not interested.

Mike Harman
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Jul 31 2005 17:20
John. wrote:

He has already mention his involvement in the Internation of Anarchist Federations.

I think "involvement" is putting it a bit strongly John.

redyred
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Jul 31 2005 17:35
gangster wrote:
I DO think it is possible to act globally, I'm sure a lot of people helping to construct globalism from below would think so too - as oppossed to globalisation from above ie. capitalism... There are at least 4 different levels you can work on politically, and if you wanted to nit pick could subdivide this even further... Start from your local council ward, do town wide organising, do regional organising (any large organisation breaks up its regions somehow), then there is national work, and international work - the latter is of course globalism from below... The fight for strucutres of global governance obviously has working class implications, and you can either try to affect it or build something else - or abstain from the debate as some appear to want to.

Are you sure about all this gangster? It's just that I was talking to EP Thompson the other day, and he agreed with me.

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Steven.
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Jul 31 2005 18:06
Catch wrote:
John. wrote:

He has already mention his involvement in the Internation of Anarchist Federations.

I think "involvement" is putting it a bit strongly John.

Lol well ok grin

gangster
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Aug 1 2005 20:56
John. wrote:
gangster wrote:
Start from your local council ward, do town wide organising, do regional organising (any large organisation breaks up its regions somehow), then there is national work, and international work - the latter is of course globalism from below...

He has already mention his involvement in the Internation of Anarchist Federations. I could of course quiz you on your international work, but I'm not interested.

Well done john - you've won pointless post of the year (again)....

gangster
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Aug 1 2005 20:58
redyred wrote:
gangster wrote:
I DO think it is possible to act globally, I'm sure a lot of people helping to construct globalism from below would think so too - as oppossed to globalisation from above ie. capitalism... There are at least 4 different levels you can work on politically, and if you wanted to nit pick could subdivide this even further... Start from your local council ward, do town wide organising, do regional organising (any large organisation breaks up its regions somehow), then there is national work, and international work - the latter is of course globalism from below... The fight for strucutres of global governance obviously has working class implications, and you can either try to affect it or build something else - or abstain from the debate as some appear to want to.

Are you sure about all this gangster? It's just that I was talking to EP Thompson the other day, and he agreed with me.

Lazy!! Anybody would think you're resorting to easily formulated ultra leftism again...

redyred
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Aug 2 2005 18:32

You've got me there gangster, cos I am actually utterly incapable of refuting your argument. roll eyes

So, have you been kicked out of class war yet? Or are they just not talking to you anymore?

gangster
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Aug 2 2005 22:12
redyred wrote:
You've got me there gangster, cos I am actually utterly incapable of refuting your argument. roll eyes

So, have you been kicked out of class war yet? Or are they just not talking to you anymore?

Shake your handbag all you like... all that will ever fall out of it is ultra left shite. Mr. T grin red n black star circle A

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Refused
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Joined: 28-09-04
Aug 2 2005 22:14

That's not what handbags are for. How are you going to pay for stuff when your money's got shit all over it?

Pepe
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Joined: 26-11-04
Aug 5 2005 16:01

I wish I had an ultra left handbag....