Unexplained and unjustified binning of a discussion

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_LIAM_
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Oct 27 2010 10:10
Unexplained and unjustified binning of a discussion

Could one of the admins please explain why this discussion was binned and the original message then reposted without the discussion.

Seems like someone didn't like being challenged and, unable to provide a decent rebuttal of the argument, just binned the topic as it was deemed embarrassing for the so called anarchist group involved.

Surely this is out of order.

http://libcom.org/forums/ireland/just-booksorganise-fundraiser-new-winter-issue-leveller-launch-party-12102010

_LIAM_
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Oct 27 2010 10:18

Bump!

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jef costello
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Oct 27 2010 10:27

You're not going to let this lie are you? smile
I've pm'd the admin but I'd be more interested to hear the response from Organise! myself.

_LIAM_
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Oct 27 2010 11:58

As am I. But they are perfectly entitled to not respond however I thing which ever admin binned the thread should have the manners to explain why.

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Rob Ray
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Oct 27 2010 12:06

Maybe cos you were being pretty rude to a new poster in a non-libcommunity thread? I mean yeah sure ask the questions, but don't go mental about it until he's actually said something outrageous - I mean I could say "You're sympathetic to anarchism therefore you agree with the indiscriminate slaughtering of priests during the Spanish Civil War don't you, DON'T YOU."

But a better way of putting it is " what are your views on..." which you can then tear up if they actually turn out to support such things, and means you don't look like a douche if for example your target doesn't in fact like the idea of kneecappings (as I suspect he won't).

_LIAM_
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Oct 27 2010 12:10
Rob Ray wrote:
Maybe cos you were being pretty rude to a new poster in a non-libcommunity thread? I mean yeah sure ask the questions, but don't go mental about it until he's actually said something outrageous - I mean I could say "You're sympathetic to anarchism therefore you agree with the indiscriminate slaughtering of priests during the Spanish Civil War don't you, DON'T YOU."

But a better way of putting it is " what are your views on..." which you can then tear up if they actually turn out to support such things, and means you don't look like a douche if for example your target doesn't in fact like the idea of kneecappings (as I suspect he won't).

Do you have any idea what the Republican Network for Unity is or what dissident republicans are engaged in here? They are about as far from libertarian socialism as you can get.

So do you consider the fact that I was rude to a backward looking bigot as grounds to bin a topic?

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Rob Ray
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Oct 27 2010 12:16

Well that's the thing, I understand it's an emotive topic, but libcom's been pretty good recently at allowing people the space to save or hang themselves - Arthur from the EDL for example was given debating room and people were told to be polite, and he then showed up quite well the paucity of his politics off his own bat.

I'm not saying whoever binned it was right to do so, but I don't think you hauling off when he was politely answering questions (mostly to the effect of "no I don't think that") is particularly helpful either as it makes you sound like the unreasonable one.

Yorkie Bar
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Oct 27 2010 12:45

Pretty bizarre that no explanation was given, and that the entire thread was binned and reposted as opposed to deleting individual posts or editing out flames as usual.

Didn't think liam's posts were all that unreasonable tbh.

~J.

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Rob Ray
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Oct 27 2010 13:36

Yeah it does seem a bit ott.

_LIAM_
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Oct 27 2010 13:47

I am guessing that someone from Organise asked for the thread to be removed as the original poster in my opinion made a bit of a ass of themselves in their attempts to deflect any questioning of the appearance of a supporter of dissident republicans at a so called anarchist fundraiser. Rather than answer the questions they thought it easier to remove the discussion altogether.

Yorkie Bar
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Oct 27 2010 15:29
Quote:
Didn't think liam's posts were all that unreasonable tbh.

Lol, fail.

baboon
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Oct 27 2010 17:45

I think that Liam deserves an explanation particularly as the fundamentals here are nationalisms against the working class.

I think that his (supportive) response was perfectly reasonable on the original thread and it was shennanygoat whose post was abusive and trite.

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Ciaran Murphy
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Oct 27 2010 18:27

Liam got his explaination in the thread that was binned, it just wasnt good enough for him. Ciaran Murphy is a Socialist republican, im not an anarchist im hardly going to give an anarchist answer, if that annoys people what can i do. I support Just books and i like the people in Organise, thats why im looking foward to the gig.
Are there contradictions? of course there are, where in life has no contradictions?
The big question that i see hangs over Liams intellect, why does he believe being an Irish seperatist makes you sectarian, makes you support knee capping, bombs etc, to be honest he sounds like a bitter Loyalist to me.

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Steven.
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Oct 27 2010 19:00

I binned it, but I have a fever right now so I will post my explanation when I'm feeling better. Apologies for any inconvenience.

_LIAM_
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Oct 27 2010 19:29
Ciaran Murphy wrote:
why does he believe being an Irish seperatist makes you sectarian, makes you support knee capping, bombs etc, to be honest he sounds like a bitter Loyalist to me.

You DO support these activities by the very fact that you do benefits gigs in support of the organisations carrying out these actions. That is SUPPORT. Real, practical and tangible SUPPORT. You may talk about taking a different line but your actions show that you give practical and financial supports to those who carry out these actions.

Your sectarian retort that I must be a bitter loyalist simply because I challenged your nationalist rhetoric says more about your narrow and sectarian outlook than it does about anything else.

gypsy
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Oct 27 2010 19:45
_LIAM_ wrote:
As am I. But they are perfectly entitled to not respond however I thing which ever admin binned the thread should have the manners to explain why.

Yeah I don't think it should have been binned. You gave a p erfectly reasonable response to someone who was supporting republicanism.

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Choccy
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Oct 27 2010 20:14

I think most of Liam's questions have been fair enough and CM's answers rather unsatisfactory.

gypsy
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Oct 27 2010 20:30
Ciaran Murphy wrote:
to be honest he sounds like a bitter Loyalist to me.

Can you explain why you think this Ciaran?

Samotnaf
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Oct 27 2010 20:35

Choccy:

Quote:
CM's answers rather unsatisfactory.

Diplomatic understatement of the year (well, hour then) and so very Englishly polite. Let's face it, Ciaran Murphy is being [admin - no flaming].

gypsy
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Oct 27 2010 20:41
Samotnaf wrote:
Choccy:
Quote:
CM's answers rather unsatisfactory.

so very Englishly polite.

do u know where choccy's from? smile

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Choccy
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Oct 27 2010 20:47

I'm being somewhat diplomatic as I know CM personally and on a personal level think he's sound. However that's neither here nor there for many of the reasons Liam has raised above.

Samotnaf
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Oct 27 2010 20:59
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do u know where choccy's from?

No. He's not from Ireland, is he?

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Choccy
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Oct 27 2010 21:04

belfast

Samotnaf
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Oct 28 2010 03:20

Belfast's English! And ever more shall be so!
Wave Britannia! Britannia wave the rules ...etc. etc. (well - don't expect the profoundest post of the century at this time of the day).

_LIAM_
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Oct 28 2010 08:19
Steven. wrote:
I binned it, but I have a fever right now so I will post my explanation when I'm feeling better. Apologies for any inconvenience.

Steven would you care to let me know who asked you to bin the thread?

Caiman del Barrio
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Oct 28 2010 10:56

Tbf, I think Liam's confrontational tone from the start set the context for Murphy to be defensive and "offended" and therefore confounded real discussion. Rob's roughly right, this is an emotive issue for folks in Norn Iron, but I reckon all would benefit from leaving out the hyperbolic signifiers about car bombs and whatever.

I also think that having someone play a benefit is qualitatively different to inviting them to join your organisation, etc. The only real downside i can see is the controversy it causes...

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Rob Ray
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Oct 28 2010 11:15
Quote:
Steven would you care to let me know who asked you to bin the thread?

See that's what I'm talking about, you don't need to create such a huge drama over everything. Steven volunteered that he'd done it, posted that he had a fever last night and generally does reply to queries, so why the need for aggressive "care to" type rhetoric? It doesn't come across as you being a battler for the truth, it just makes you look needlessly arsey.

Samotnaf
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Oct 29 2010 04:27

RobRay:

Quote:
why the need for aggressive "care to" type rhetoric? It doesn't come across as you being a battler for the truth, it just makes you look needlessly arsey.

"care to" doesn't automatically sound aggressive to me - it could do, but it could equaly be neutral. the internet is not ike a telephone or direct conversation - unless you use italics and bold and capitals (not the case here) you don't get an inkling of the tone of what someone's saying.

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Choccy
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Oct 29 2010 09:47

Yeah it didn't sound at all aggressive, certainly not as aggressive as 'SAY THAT TO MY FACE!'.

_LIAM_
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Oct 29 2010 11:36

Still no reply as to why the discussion was binned from the person who binned it. I genuinely would like a response to this if possible. Thanks.

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Steven.
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Oct 29 2010 11:56

Hi, feeling a bit better today so here goes.

firstly, are you the Liam who used to post here as Liam Derry?

As for the binning: I got a private message from a poster (it was a private message, so the person who sent it can say who they are if they wish) asking me to bin a discussion.

I had a quick look at it, it appeared that a simple announcement about an event hosted by a group we have a good relationship with (host their website, etc) had been derailed by an argument containing a fair bit of flaming. So I binned it.

In retrospect it probably would have been more appropriate to move it to libcommunity (although in practice that wouldn't have led to a qualitatively different outcome).

In general, I think the points Liam made were fair enough, although I think the tone was needlessly aggressive. But also I think that having someone do a benefit for you is completely different from having a political working relationship with someone, or even politically supporting someone.

If you only ever had benefits put on by people you agreed with politically on everything, the best you could get would be someone like doing some god awful grindcore shit or revol68 doing some sort of spoken word thing about how he could get him job he wanted, if he could be bothered. And no one is gonna pay to see that.