antifa? no, thanks

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Hieronymous's picture
Joined: 27-07-07
Aug 20 2017 16:11
el psy congroo wrote:
H: your politics suck and I'm not your comrade. You've been caught up in this leftist activism since before the election. Wanted to get that out of the way first.

“It’s a small group of real bad people,” Simon (of the SPLC) writes.

El psy congroo, you'd benefit by thinking more and typing less. And I don't know where you live, but since Trump's election I've seen racial tensions on the rise everywhere I go. While commuting on public transit I've heard drivers called the n-word several times, something I hadn't heard in decades. I've seen racially motivated fist fights, again something I hadn't seen in years.

Frankly, if you'd been watching, the whole leftist political establishment -- by which I mean the whole spectrum of parties, alphabet soup of sectarian groups, and political non-profits -- have been saying exactly what you, el psy congroo, are saying. Namely, this whole fascists on the march hysteria is a myth. Those hundreds of white nationalist thugs -- from the campus-based Identity Evropa to the Sovereign Nation biker gang to the current and ex-police and military in the weapons-carrying Oath Keepers -- converging on cities like Berkeley are just figments of the imaginations of wild eyed antifa. Well, el psy congroo, I've seen them randomly beat the shit out of people, wolf pack style, with my own eyes.

And since when do working class militants get their tactical and strategic instructions from the liberal non-profiteers funded by corporate foundations at Southern Poverty Law Center? (SPLC has assets of a fucking mind-blowing $338,470,618 and annual income of $54,267,891; el py congroo, they are our class enemies!) Here's what SPLC says in their "Ten ways to fight hate":

SPLC wrote:
#2 Reach out to allies from churches, schools, clubs, and
other civic groups. Create a diverse coalition. Include
children, police, and the media. Gather ideas from
everyone, and get everyone involved.
#7 Elected officials and other community leaders can be
important allies. But some must overcome reluctance —
and others, their own biases — before they’re able to take a

O.K. el psy congroo, we're going to make common cause with the pigs, mainstream media, and hacks from Republican and Democratic Party machines based on marching orders from the capitalist racketeers at SPLC? You're going to have a coalition with pedophile priests, Officer Friendly who shoots black teenagers in the back, the anchor from Fox News, and your Republican Tea Party mayor, city council and DA? All because corporate funders dictate to their non-profit allies at SPLC that this is the only "proper" course of action in a bourgeois democracy?

El psy congroo, are you smoking crack again?

spacious's picture
Joined: 2-09-15
Aug 20 2017 14:38

It is really pretty silly to assume that everyone means the same when they utter the word "antifascism" or label themselves as such. Or that the use of that term would automatically result in a particular outcome.

Left communists are right to object to "co-operation with bourgeois forces in the name of 'anti-fascism'", or at least turning that into the highest aim, because they think that this has the result of turning communist/radical and working class antifascism into an effective support for capitalism. The object of their critique is not the antifascism, the struggle against fascist violence and fascist ideas, as such, but its particular limitation by bourgeois democratic rules and horizons, which means making your own political action conditional on maintaining coalitions with liberals and respecting the existing social relations.

Then again, assuming that everything which calls itself 'antifascist' is automatically characterized by such cooperation and such limits is really quite idiotic. Criticizing practices/aims and self-imposed limits rather than equating them to the label they happen to carry would be the first step, if you want that critique to actually be understood.

Joined: 14-08-13
Aug 20 2017 14:40

My opinion

Joined: 13-10-05
Aug 20 2017 15:02
el psy congroo wrote:
By every account I've seen, there's less than 10k militant white nationalists in the US. Where's the great fascist threat? It's not real. And the popular talking point right now is "Hitler had like 20 supporters only in 1922".

i think you've contradicted yourself here. hitler had 20 (surely more but still very few) supporters in 1922 - and what happened in 1933? yet a number like 10K is not real enough to worry about. the threat was real enough for alan berg, for the people in the murrah building, for the people in the tennessee valley UU church, from this year alone for taliesin meche, rick best, srinivas kuchibhotla, and heather heyer. fash leaders have called for whitists to come to demos armed and loaded because "we want a war." if you ignore them they won't go away.

you impute to others talk of "the great fascist threat." the threat to what, do you think? do you think there's some natural limit to how many people would tolerate fash talk, and therefore we ought not over-react? take one half step outside unite the right territory into milo and steve bannon nativist, build-the-wall territory and you've got millions. and trump's not franco but if he ever decided to become a franco more millions would follow right along.

i know the argument that antifascist work isn't class-focused and therefore is a distraction, but i reject the argument that antifascism is actually antithetical to class work because it makes cross-class alliances and accommodates to liberal rhetoric, because, again, if you ignore these people they won't go away. they'll be spreading racialist and nationalist venom and killing people along the way.

one microscopic benefit out of charlottesville is that bannon got cashiered and the administration is starting to look like a bunch of GOP party operatives. that's a very bad thing in itself, but the message to the rightists seems to be "you're not wanted here anymore." if that lets the air out of them we can thank the antifa. (of course this could be proven wrong next week.)

el psy congroo
Joined: 17-11-16
Aug 21 2017 07:23
Hieronymous wrote:
El psy congroo, are you smoking crack again?

for breakfast. Whats it to you punk?

Insulting my intelligence...

Youre the dilletant arguing the American bourgeoisie could ever pull something like a Hitler off in a million timelines in a million different universes

el psy congroo
Joined: 17-11-16
Aug 21 2017 07:24

They couldn't

el psy congroo
Joined: 17-11-16
Aug 21 2017 07:28

Petey - are you calling for reprisals?