Contemporary German Wobbly council communists

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Juan Conatz's picture
Juan Conatz
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Sep 10 2013 02:03
Contemporary German Wobbly council communists

Some council communists apparently in the IWW in Germany. Thought this was interesting that this exists.

http://strike.blogsport.de/

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klas batalo
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Sep 11 2013 04:35

it's interesting mostly because there are few who take up the tradition today so boldly...if not that are more organically descendant...

syndicalist
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Sep 11 2013 17:21

Said in a comradely way. It was always my impression that those forming the German IWW were autonomous marxists and council communists. One of the reasons they did not join the more establish Free Workers Union (FAU).

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Sep 11 2013 14:10
syndicalist wrote:
Sad in a comradely way. It was always my impression that those forming the German IWW were autonomous marxists and council communists. One of the reasons they did not join the more establish Free Workers Union (FAU).

I thought it was because they were anti-deutsch?

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Entdinglichung
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Sep 11 2013 14:11

their platform: http://strike.blogsport.de/images/KlassenAutonomePlattformKAP.pdf ... calling for a synthesis of elements of left communism, council communism, syndicalism and anarchist communism with the program of the KAPD as its core

Juan Conatz's picture
Juan Conatz
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Sep 12 2013 01:55
OliverTwister wrote:
syndicalist wrote:
Sad in a comradely way. It was always my impression that those forming the German IWW were autonomous marxists and council communists. One of the reasons they did not join the more establish Free Workers Union (FAU).

I thought it was because they were anti-deutsch?

I had heard this, too, but don't remember what it was based on.

syndicalist
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Sep 12 2013 02:22
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I thought it was because they were anti-deutsch?

What does this mean though?

syndicalist
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Sep 12 2013 02:25

If the question, where did I hear about the origins of the German IWW.... There was bunches of stuff up and out there when they first organized. Also, heard from some in the FAU as well at the time.
I'm leaving the computer at this time, so I won't be able to do back years research. But even folks close to the situ and IWW basically said same.

Juan Conatz's picture
Juan Conatz
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Sep 12 2013 02:29
syndicalist wrote:

What does this mean though?

Anti-German wiki article

Serge Forward's picture
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Sep 12 2013 06:33

I was at a German IWW conference a few years ago. I didn't meet anyone who appeared to be anti-deutsch. That said, no one told me they were council communist either, but it did seem more plausible.

Juan Conatz's picture
Juan Conatz
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Sep 12 2013 08:15

Maybe this is where that rumor came from?

http://iww-rostock.net/2013/08/26/distanzierung-bds-kampagne-dissociatio...

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Sep 12 2013 08:25

those in Hamburg who left the FAU a couple of years ago did it not only because of anti-german tendencies but also because of what they perceived as the neglect of shop-floor issues and a generally unsound state of the branch (which was one of the biggest of the FAU), they did set up an independent anarcho-syndicalist group: http://vabaltona.blogsport.de/ ... don't know if the IWA-orthodox anarcho-syndicalist group in Cologne/Bonn still exists

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Entdinglichung
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Sep 12 2013 08:29
Juan Conatz wrote:
Maybe this is where that rumor came from?

http://iww-rostock.net/2013/08/26/distanzierung-bds-kampagne-dissociatio...

you will find opposition to BDS campaigns in Germany not only among anti-Germans, even among leftists who aren't particularly friendly towards the policy of the state of Israel, many are of the opinion that calling for a BDS campaign in Germany will open the box of Pandora

syndicalist
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Sep 12 2013 13:30
Juan Conatz wrote:
syndicalist wrote:

What does this mean though?

Anti-German wiki article

Thanks for the link. Man, am I not hip.

syndicalist
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Sep 12 2013 16:02

Maybe the discussion was on the old Anarchist Black Cat list. I know I had some emails with some folks (IWW members, others) about this. I remember it being clearly stated that those forming the IWW were not anarcho-syndicalists or influenced by that tradition. That some of them were disgruntled autonomous marxists (with that movement or whatever it might be) and were looking for a home. That's basically how I remember it at the time.

Anyway....forward we go.

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Sep 14 2013 23:45
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We think that a taking of sides like in this resolution is very problematic. For example we refuse to call Israel an Apartheid-State. This is not just a historical insupportable comparison but further more an ideological delegitimation of Israel in behalf of a nationalist liberation movement.

In our opinion this is deeply connected to the so called „3-D-Test“ by Nathan Sharansky which is meant to check wether critique of the State of Israel is using antisemitic pattern of argument. In this context Sharansky speaks of the following cornerstones: demonization, double standarts and delegitimation.

For us all of this is easy to find in the resolution in support of the BDS-campagne. For example when it blames Israel of ethnic cleansing and Apartheid-politics, especially when it doesn’t talk of the violations of human rights by the Palestinian authorities and when it demands for a boycott not only of Israeli products but for example also of academics without thinking for just a single moment of the interests and fights of the Israeli workers.

Just a short excerpt. The bolding is mine. It is all pretty disgusting, but the refusal "to call Israel an apartheid state" pretty much summarizes it all. There's no way to defend it as anything but blatantly racist.

As I understand it, Rostock was one of the main groups behind setting up the German IWW and is one of the biggest branches.

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Sep 15 2013 04:05

a comrade in Germany (one hostile to the anti-Germans) tells me the anti-German thing has largely collapsed. anyone know about that?

getting back to the OP, can someone say more about the people who run that web site?

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Sep 15 2013 07:42
syndicalist wrote:
Juan Conatz wrote:
syndicalist wrote:

What does this mean though?

Anti-German wiki article

Thanks for the link. Man, am I not hip.

News to me as well.

meerov21
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Sep 15 2013 09:11

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hamm02.jpg
anti-German -is something out of mind.
But i wood like to say that my israely anarchist friends who are extrimly anti-zionist also have no sympathy to the idea of boycott of israely goods or israely science. Bosses will find other markets soon or late and anyway their level of life wood be high. Boycott first will attack israely proletarians.

meinberg
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Sep 15 2013 10:07
Nate wrote:
a comrade in Germany (one hostile to the anti-Germans) tells me the anti-German thing has largely collapsed. anyone know about that?

i don't think, that this is the right place to discuss antigermans. there are other threads that deal with that ugly mess. but if i should answer your question: in the last few years the main antigerman current around bahamas and ISF pretty much collapsed. (But so did most of the "radical left" in Germany the last few years) but it is still around and there are a some of "left" students at universities which are attracted by this ideology.

but there are a lot of other currents of the antigerman movement, which are still there but don't call themselves antigerman any more: f.e. jungle world, konkret, phase 2, ums ganze (they call themselves now antinational), ... in these groups are still a lot of hardcore antigermans and so on.

but more importantly many ideas of the antigermans (f.e. you must not call israel an apartheid state; the biggest danger are the uncontrolled racist masses...) are today mainstream, if you're politicized on the "left", even more because most people are politicized in antifa. so you find this ideas in nearly every "left" group with members, which are non migrant and under 30. there are a some of those people in the FAU and i wouldn't be surprised if there are some in the iww. but the members of the iww i know are not antigerman.

Quote:
getting back to the OP, can someone say more about the people who run that web site?

i don't know them personally, but i'm pretty sure that they aren't antigerman.. they say that they are mainly inspired by the history of the IWW and the Unionen (AAU; AAU/E).

meerov21
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Sep 16 2013 10:35
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but more importantly many ideas of the antigermans (f.e. you must not call israel an apartheid state; the biggest danger are the uncontrolled racist masses...) are today mainstream, if you're politicized on the "left",

This is nightmare

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Sep 16 2013 13:10

The only thing I can think of relating the German IWW with anything remotely anti-german goes back a few years when there was some motion over Israel/Palestine to do with consumer boycotts, that were pro-Palestine anti-Israel with national liberationist overtones. I recall one guy in Germany who was very pro Palestine while others there were not so. However, much the same arguments those German wobblies made were also coming from Wobblies in the UK, and possibly from some in North America too. Now while I am aware that opposition to Israel may have some uncomfortable implications for comrades in Germany, especially given the history, I didn't think for one minute that any opposition to officially endorsing the boycott was down to anti-germanism but was more about not involving the IWW in any national liberation type stuff. I don't think the UK wobblies endorsed it either. But I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.