IWW North America have decided to participate in creation of the new international with CNT et al.

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Juan Conatz's picture
Juan Conatz
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Dec 18 2018 13:21

ICL and IWA are competing/rival syndicalist federations that are inevitably going to be drawing from similar pools of people in whatever country we're talking about. I don't get what syndicalist is getting at. Did you think that after the splits, accusations of authoritarianism/impurity/physical violence/racism/fascism, etc., that everyone is going to be mindful of some hypothetical ideological "territory" when considering spreading elsewhere? I don't think so.

syndicalist
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Dec 19 2018 05:49
Juan Conatz wrote:
ICL and IWA are competing/rival syndicalist federations that are inevitably going to be drawing from similar pools of people in whatever country we're talking about. I don't get what syndicalist is getting at. Did you think that after the splits, accusations of authoritarianism/impurity/physical violence/racism/fascism, etc., that everyone is going to be mindful of some hypothetical ideological "territory" when considering spreading elsewhere? I don't think so.

I think you are missing my point.

That said, on the matter of "raiding"other organizations. Perhaps I am old fashioned and (mainly respectful) of the old "code" of not raiding others organizations even after splits. It is one thing if elements of existing non-split organizations seek to join another organization, on their own. In the context of the two internationals, I think it would be fucked up if, say, existing IWA sections decided to "raid" IWW locals. And I think the same if CIT organizations try to do the same to those in the IWA sphere.

I guess being principled about this sort of thing is old fashioned and not a matter of unwritten code of ethics any more. But why should I expect less in this day and age?

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Juan Conatz
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Dec 19 2018 13:07
syndicalist wrote:

I think you are missing my point.

Quote:
"raiding"

You're right. I assumed that you weren't saying that one organization has a monopoly on a political ideology and I assumed that you weren't equating competing over members with business union style raids. That seems what you're saying, now. If it was clear that is what you were saying before I wouldn't have responded.

syndicalist
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Dec 19 2018 16:16

I'm not ever for poaching of existing organizations

The other point was seemingly the IWW declaring itself
anarchosyndicalist. Maybe this section is just very
poorly written. Though I just tend to be cynical
on that score As the aim seems to be clear enough
as written

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OliverTwister
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Dec 19 2018 21:14
syndicalist wrote:
The other point was seemingly the IWW declaring itself
anarchosyndicalist.

It's pretty clear that you're stretching, looking for things to try to stir controversy around. Which is your usual MO.

The language doesn't "seem" to do anything like what you're claiming. It's one sentence in a section that list "some examples" of possible routes for expansion. Since you quoted selectively, I'll quote the full sentence (and emphasize the part which you removed):

Quote:
Between the FORA and the IWW, we should make contacts with anarchist movements in Central and South America to form anarcho-syndicalist initiatives or make contact with already established unions.

This doesn't make any claims about the IWW. It just says that one example of how expansion might happen is for IWW and FORA to work together on contacts in the Americas, whether those contacts are with already established unions, or anarchist movements that want to form anarcho-syndicalist initiatives.

You are indeed cynical, as you've made clear with every post over the past 5 years. Time to move on.

syndicalist
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Dec 23 2018 15:47
Quote:
Time to move on.

From guys like you. Yup

Edit: All opinions expressed by me are my own.

Final Edit: Let me just end by saying, I have long been cynical about the way folks act in international organizations, be it the IWA, the new-CIT and IWW. So, really, a lot of what I say can be applied to all. The shame of it all, there are lots of people in all the aforementioned internationals doing some decent stuff within their respect organizations. When it comes to international stuff, it all just seems to fall apart in many ways.