Stalin

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Redwood's picture
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Jan 28 2014 21:17
Stalin

Last few weeks I've been lurking a site that will not be named, and I'm really fascinated/depressed with the self described "stalinists" there. I mean.... what the fuck? Its almost funny, but not really. I just can't wrap my head around how someone could literally describe them self as a Stalinist.. I've always used the term a slur for a very orthodox marxist-lennistszs. Are these cats just trying to be offensive or? Hate to judge someones personality because of their politics, its just hard not to here. Just seems like posturing to the point of absurdity. The USSR is gone... are there even any "real stalinists" or "tankies" alive these days?

admin: thread title changed. Don't post thread titles in all capitals

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Jan 26 2014 20:36

Well in my limited experience Stalinists as in actually supporters of Stalin who aren't Maoists come in two types, the originals, who are very old but still very much alive. They're usually part of dwindling splits from the old CPGB, and spend there time trying to sell papers an old copies of books about the Red Army. They usually justify their faith by a form of denial curiously similar to Holocaust Denialism. "It didn't happen, it's all lies from the West".

The other type are very young, usually teens and early twenties. My dealings with them give me the impression that most of them aren't really Stalinists, they've just become latched onto the Soviet Union as a solution to their frustrations with the current system. And since Stalin is seen to have been the height of Soviet Power, and he defeated the Nazi's he gets there admiration. They're either equally suspicious of accounts of the purges as Western Propaganda or like a few are so far removed from the sufferings of the Soviet People's in the 30's they simply don't care.

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Jan 26 2014 21:21

I don't really view Stalin as a baby eating monster or anything like that, it just seems so strange to have politics that are so dated and obviously dead end. Obvious failure is obvious. Shit just creeps me out, I don't want to have any connection with people like that.

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Jan 26 2014 22:27

additionally to the two more common types described by Reddebrek, there are two other types of Stalinists I met during the last 25 years:

a) people where tasteless provocations with Stalinist stuff have taken over, e.g. the FAU/AP or a few Autonomen in the German-speaking countries

b) I've met some (generally older) people who owe their or their parents survival to the Soviet Army liberating them from concentration camps: "Without Stalin, I wouldn't be here"

Redwood's picture
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Jan 26 2014 23:04

To the second type described, I would have to tell them that millions of working class people saved their life. Not Stalin.

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Jan 26 2014 23:11

I've known tankies in the South African Communist Party (SACP) - so obsessed with transitional policy they never bothered with socialism and social revolution. One member of the 'PARTY' once told me that the SACP have 55 thousand copies of Das Kapital that they will make available at the correct time (of the transition) then came the gravy train and we didn't see them anymore.

Entdinglichung wrote:
a) people where tasteless provocations with Stalinist stuff have taken over, e.g. the FAU/AP or a few Autonomen in the German-speaking countries

Interesting and surprising, presumably this was in the 80s. This document link mentions that FAU/AP was one person -

http//www.vabaltona.blogsport.de/images/Utopia_891980.pdf‎ wrote:
13 Chaos Jetzt! [der Wunsch des Verfassers ging bald in Erfüllung – in Heidelberg entstand irgendwann Mitte der 1980er Jahre eine FAU-HD/A (Heidelberg/Anarchisten), die sich später FAU/AP (Anarchistische Partei) nannte und im 'Beilagen'-Kreis des BWK teilnahm, eigentlich ein 1-Mann-Unternehmen, in der Stalin seine Freunde hatte]

[auto-translation]13 Chaos Now! [ the desire of the author was soon fulfilled - in Heidelberg was sometime in the middle of the 1980s, a FAU- HD/A (Heidelberg/anarchists) who later called himself FAU/AP (Anarchist Party) and took part in the ' Beilagen' circle of BWK, actually a one -man company, had his friends in the Stalin]

How important was Stalism as a current with the Autonomen?

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Jan 26 2014 23:59

the FAU/AP combined with its dozen "mass organizations" where probably less than 10 people but their monthly magazine (4 photo-copied A4 pages) sold well because it was so utterly hilarious (especially the "workers sport" section with instructions about e.g. martial arts, bajonets or fighting with knives) their leader was in his private life a manager in an recruitment agency and much into martial arts ... as I can remember, the few Stalinist zines at the fringes of the Autonomen like Radikal Brechen (Frankfurt) or Info-Verteiler (Vienna) never found a wider audience, it was a bit different in Switzerland where you have some groups which can be labelled "ML-Autonome"

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Jan 27 2014 00:08

Thanks.
I cringe at some stuff from 80s

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Jan 27 2014 00:36

Stalinists of Reddebrek's second variety exist in Floridan other parts of U.S. tied to the organization FRSO. They permeate some of the lower levels of AFLCIO bureaucracy and Democratic party posturing and "activism." Class callaborationist chumps. Odd phenomenon.

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Jan 27 2014 01:43

Florida? A Stalinist stronghold? Hilarious! I've always hated that state...

I'm thinking of Stalin wearing a Hawaiian shirt and listening to jimmy buffet on the beach in front of the Holiday Inn.

boomerang
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Jan 27 2014 02:22

I used to know be kind of friends with a Stalinist. Nice guy. Fun at parties. I think people said the same thing about Stalin.

He's in his twenties and hangs out with mostly anarchists. Also looks like the stereotypical anarcho semi-punk. He does a lot of drugs. Isn't afraid to put himself at risk during actions. He has a strong class consciousness and plenty of righteous anger. He likes things done democratically and organized in small affinity groups. But he defends the purges and thinks that the people killed were all petite bourgeois scum. And thinks we need a strong hand in the revolution. So yeah he's pretty damn ignorant.

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Jan 27 2014 02:32

I wouldn't call it a stronghold per se, but they're here. Here they don't have any real union influence, they just make their money from either working in transport jobs ("where the workers are") or through shilling for the Dems etc. for money. And if the press weren't there, it didn't happen. PRESS, PRESS, PRESS.

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Jan 27 2014 09:25

real strongholds of Stalinists are some Belgian towns like Zelzate where the PTB got 22% during last local elections or Lysekil in Sweden where the Kommunistiska Partiet holds three of 41 councillours

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Jan 27 2014 16:28
AES wrote:
Thanks.
I cringe at some stuff from 80s

there were even worse things like some Dutch Autonomen and some Anarchists in Munich who were deeply into Ghaddafi stuff

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Jan 27 2014 17:42

I've just moved to the Netherlands so i want to know about these Dutch Autonomen. Please tell me more.

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Jan 27 2014 17:47
Mr. Natural
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Jan 27 2014 19:41

Redwood,
I posted a reply earlier, but it apparently got lost. I'm poor on computers and new to this site. Incidentally, I have apparently been "disappeared" from what I believe is the Stalinist-friendly site at which you have been lurking. I haven't been banned, mind you, but have lost my existence. I keep pinching myself and I'm still real. What a relief!
The topic of Stalinism needs some serious discussion, and I'm not sure this is the time or thread. I recently spent some months on the topic in order to answer three questions: Who was Stalin? What was Stalinism? And how could Marxism have been perverted into its Orwellian opposite?
On that last question, I'll note that the Manifesto describes communism as a bottom-up society--Manifesto: "an association will be formed in which the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all"--while Stalinism was the most godawful top-down societal dictatorship of all time.
For the flavor of living under Stalinism, I recommend Vasily Grossman's epic novel, Life and Fate. For the single book that captures Stalin and his operating style and deeds, perhaps Simon Sebag Montefiore's Stalin: Court of the Red Tsar is the best. (Yes, I know he's a bourgeois historian, but he gets the facts right.)
Well, all for now. My red-green best, Mr. Natural

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Jan 27 2014 23:24

Thanks for the thoughtful reply Mr. Natural. I have been recently trying to improve my library and ordered Court of the Red Tsar today. I hear on the site that will not be named they have a certain type of ban that does not even let you know your account is blocked. I would not worry too much about it, the site is a waste of time, and it just depresses me mostly.

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Jan 28 2014 00:22

Changed my title from all caps!? That's it... my suspicions are true. LibCom is run by stalinoid communists. Like, where does it say that in the rules maaannnnnnn. Can I make an all lowercase title? huh? huh? What about the classic KILL THE HUMANS thread? No one ever changed that title! This is like... violating my RIGHTS maaaannnn. In REAL anarkies we would be allowed to type in ALL CAPS whenever we want! Hypocrites!!! Reactionaries!!! Totalitarians!!! Grammar Stalinists! Who done it? Steven.? Steven. with a period after his name Steven.?

jk, sry bout the caps. I dont think Stalin or Stalinism is very funny at all, in fact, it really bothers me. Just trying to make light of it to ease the pain. Also, when I think of Stalin, thats literally how I think of his name in my head, STALIN... SSTTALLLLIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNN........

(also, I get it, you guys have prolly already done this here millions of times, but im new damnit, and I need my turn)

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Jan 28 2014 00:55
georgestapleton wrote:
I've just moved to the Netherlands so i want to know about these Dutch Autonomen. Please tell me more.

our Antifa group got around 1990 a letter from a social centre in the Netherland (can't remember from which city) which basically showed, that they regarded Libya as the fulfillment of their dreams sad

wojtek
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Jan 28 2014 02:53

Polish joke from WW2: A Polish submarine captain is asked: ‘you see in your periscope a German and a Soviet cruiser. Which one do you attack first?’ ‘Of course the German one’ the Pole answers, ‘duty comes always before pleasure.’

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Jan 28 2014 10:03
wojtek wrote:
Polish joke from WW2: A Polish submarine captain is asked: ‘you see in your periscope a German and a Soviet cruiser. Which one do you attack first?’ ‘Of course the German one’ the Pole answers, ‘duty comes always before pleasure.’

wouldn't he have said "Russian" instead of "Soviet"?

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Jan 28 2014 16:31

I see Pete Seeger died today. He was a Stalinist right? I like some of his songs. R.I.P. ol Pete.

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Jan 28 2014 16:36

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Seeger#Repudiation_of_Stalin

Redwood's picture
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Jan 28 2014 21:31

Ah good!, looks like he's not going to meet Ol Joe then. (I'm a fan of pete seeger)

Mr. Natural
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Jan 28 2014 19:48

Entdinglichung,
Thanks much for your link to Pete Seeger's anti-Stalinism. Pete was one of my three favorite Americans (Judi Bari and Gary Snyder are the other two). And we just lost Utah Phillips, too, who had amazingly right-on politics.
Have others noticed how stagnant and sterile American culture has become? This is a consequence of the global triumph of capitalism--an entropic phenomenon. Capitalism is now the only system around and there is no negation of the negation to be had, We had better get around to creating it, huh? And soon.
Count me in. In the meantime, Stalinwise, Trotsky described him perfectly as a "Genghis Khan who had read Marx."
Trotsky also displayed his arrogance and political naivete by describing Stalin as "Our party's greatest mediocrity." What blindness! Stalin was a very intelligent operator who specialized in mastering others, whatever it took. His beyond-ruthless rise to power was an almost casual masterpiece of cunning and killing.
My red-green, heatedly anti-Stalinist best, Mr. Natural

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Jan 28 2014 20:08

Mr. Natural - check your pm's. (private messages, up top in between my account and log out)

Mr. Natural
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Jan 28 2014 20:19

Redwood, Thanks for heads-up on pm. I've replied. I'll probably need some guidance from time to time as I learn site and wrestle with my computer.
I want to contribute a "Stalin joke." A young man is grabbed off the street by the secret police and dragged down to their interrogation cellars where he is accused of writing War and Peace.
Several days later his interrogators run into his parents on the street. "Congratulations!" they tell them. "Your son wrote War and Peace!"
My red-green, anti-Stalinist best, Mr. Natural

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Jan 28 2014 20:36

Haha, hey, no problem comrade. (looks like your pm did not go through though, I notice you have been having that problem a bit here. not sure whats going on, but I suggest you highlight and copy all of that text before you send it out, just in case it does not go through. I know how crappy it is to have a whole message lost.)

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Jan 28 2014 20:42

oh and btw Mr. Natural, I live in Shelter Cover, or whitethorne to be more specific. You are the first Humboldt libcommer I have met so far! smile

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Jan 28 2014 21:05

duplicate post