From Radical to Right Wing

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vanilla.ice.baby
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Jul 17 2010 22:44

In what way?

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Shorty
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Jul 18 2010 00:57

Reading this thread reminds me of the Bukowski poem "having the flu and with nothing else to do"

Quote:
I read a book about John Dos Passos and according to
the book once radical-communist
John ended up in the Hollywood Hills living off investments
and reading the
Wall Street Journal

this seems to happen all too often.

what hardly ever happens is
a man going from being a young conservative to becoming an
old wild-ass radical

however:
young conservatives always seem to become old
conservatives.
it's a kind of lifelong mental vapor-lock.

but when a young radical ends up an
old radical
the critics
and the conservatives
treat him as if he escaped from a mental
institution.

such is our politics and you can have it
all.

keep it.

sail it up your
ass.

Boris Badenov
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Jul 18 2010 02:27

heh bukowski is dead on there.

petey
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Jul 18 2010 02:45

long article here about the "institute of ideas" (what a name)
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v32/n13/jenny-turner/who-are-they

Quote:
The Battle of Ideas has been held annually since 2005 by the Institute of Ideas, an organisation that from the outside looks pretty much like a standard right-wing public policy think tank – much talk about ‘free speech, not me speech’ and ‘the crisis in authority’, much condemnation of ‘greenthink’ and ‘meddling policymakers’ – but which also functions as some sort of platform and refuge for people who used to be in the Revolutionary Communist Party, a British Trotskyist sect that had its heyday in the 1980s and early 1990s.
ajjohnstone
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Jul 18 2010 03:49
Quote:
ajjohnstone wrote:
Of the founder members we saw them becoming...a member of the Army Council of the IRA
xurbanpiratedreamerx: WHO?
Oisleep: i thought that was his son

Yup, the article was indeed in error and if i had had my thinking hat on i would have remembered it being discussed on one of the SPGB's discussion lists. My apologies for the mistake.

gypsy
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Jul 18 2010 09:35
vanilla.ice.baby wrote:
In what way?

hes a state socialist who is very much part of the furniture at westminster.

vanilla.ice.baby
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Jul 18 2010 17:42
allybaba wrote:
vanilla.ice.baby wrote:
In what way?

hes a state socialist who is very much part of the furniture at westminster.

And?

How does that stop him being a radical?

gypsy
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Jul 18 2010 18:20
vanilla.ice.baby wrote:
allybaba wrote:
vanilla.ice.baby wrote:
In what way?

hes a state socialist who is very much part of the furniture at westminster.

And?

How does that stop him being a radical?

Not sure maybe my definition of a radical is rather too radical. smile but being part of the status quo and one of the political families of britain makes it abit difficult to consider him a radical. Although I do concede as he has aged he has always moved to the left. What I was trying to highlight was that the Guardians idea of a radical is him and not someone like the late albert meltzer.

vanilla.ice.baby
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Jul 18 2010 21:35

Ok, I'm not sure we really disagree - but I would say the guardian's idea of a radical, is pretty close to any commonly used term, and it's one I would accept.

There's lots of ways to intepret the word, as there is with most, look at the Serbian Radical Party...

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oisleep
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Jul 18 2010 22:03

lads all lads

Boris Badenov
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Jul 18 2010 22:27
oisleep wrote:
lads all lads

I don't know what this means. I bet it's funny though.

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Jul 18 2010 23:36
vanilla.ice.baby wrote:
oisleep wrote:
long time ago - newcastle area

Yes you are correct, he runs Black Flame Books in Heaton, and is a twit. I've forgotten his name, but he's still on friendly terms with some local anarchos.

Woah, is there an anarchist bookshop in Newcastle? I didn't really think there was much beyond the Star & Shadow there.

vanilla.ice.baby
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Jul 22 2010 16:39
Farce wrote:
vanilla.ice.baby wrote:
oisleep wrote:
long time ago - newcastle area

Yes you are correct, he runs Black Flame Books in Heaton, and is a twit. I've forgotten his name, but he's still on friendly terms with some local anarchos.

Woah, is there an anarchist bookshop in Newcastle? I didn't really think there was much beyond the Star & Shadow there.

It's not anarchist, it's a generic second hand bookshop and book finders that is run by an anacho-cap ex AFed member.

It's on Heaton Park road just between Byker Morrisons and the park.

It does have some good political books and stuff in there sometimes.

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Entdinglichung
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Aug 10 2010 16:05

oh, and another example from Germany I forgot:

Sepp Oerter (1870-1928): 1887 SAPD, 1890 Anarchist, 1913 SPD, 1917 USPD, 1919-1921 chief minister of Brunswick, 1921 corruption allegations, resignation from office, 1922 expelled by the USPD, 1924 NSDAP

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Entdinglichung
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Nov 22 2010 14:14

Jiang Kanghu: from anarchist to president of the Examination Yuan (one of the five parliament chambers) of the pro-japanese Nanjing collaboration government

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Entdinglichung
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Sep 27 2011 14:32

Else Christensen, Danish anarcho-syndicalist who became a founder of Odinism in the USA

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Entdinglichung
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Nov 1 2011 16:47

Fritz Riwotzki (1910-1978), in the 1930ies until being arrested a leading activist of the council communist Rote Kämpfer in the Ruhr area, became 1957 Chief police constable of the Dortmund area, in this function during the early 1970ies responsable for banning of demonstrations and violent repression against leftists

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Entdinglichung
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Feb 14 2012 09:16

the worst of all: Wilhelm Marr (1819-1904), Young Hegelian anarchist during the 1840ies and later one of the main founding fathers of "modern" racial antisemitism, according to some historians, he softened his antisemitism and became again anarchistic in his last years

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Entdinglichung
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Oct 3 2012 10:01
TeflonMaster wrote:
Max Eastman

Are there any examples of a right winger becoming a solid leftist?

the German council communist Alfred Weiland (1906-1978) was for a short time an NSDAP member around 1925 before joining KAPD and AAUD ... after ~ 1947, he collaborated with both social democratic and rightwing groups (linked to the US secret service) operating clandestinely in Eastern Germany, the Stasi abducted and tortured him in 1950 and held him imprisoned in East Germany for eight years, after he returned to West Berlin in 1958, he stayed on the right wing of the SPD for the rest of his life (holding political positions like Shachtman and other "state department socialists" in the States)

NannerNannerNan...
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Oct 15 2012 22:04

I haven't read the full thread (I'm on page 1 lol) but Mussolini's tale from a rabble rouser to creator of fascism is quite interesting. But it can all be summed up in one word - opportunism.

He was a socialist because it pissed off a ton of people and made him cool with others; he became a war loving, left wing authoritarian because it pissed off all his old friends and gave him more power, then he just did away with any pretenses of radicalism and became a pawn of the northern, industrial bourgeoisie because it would give him literal power and tons of prestige.

Chris Hedges calls these types, "careerists", people who operate the system and don't ask questions. Mussolini was just a buttload more ambitious.

All revolutionaries should shun these types and keep them away from the prestige they crave.