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"Left Anti-Semitism" and "New Anti-Semitism"

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Drakula25
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Feb 23 2014 21:46
"Left Anti-Semitism" and "New Anti-Semitism"

The deteriorating pseudo-discussion about left opposition to Israel, in another topic, fell apart as a number of "left" posters on this website decided that international opposition to the Israeli Apartheid regime and its 60+ years of ongoing settler-colonialism is due to anti-Semitism.

Because this topic has been covered extensively by (actual) leftists, I thought it would be fruitful, if not for some of the users at libcom, for others that browse radical websites like libcom, to have a more thorough discussion of anti-Semitism, and what it is.

Virtual Unanimity: The Left has already rejected your Zionist witch-hunt

As I have pointed out before, genuine left figures, including Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein, Tariq Ali, Jonathan Cook, and virtually every left figure outside of a few crank reactionary outfits like the AWL and the "Anti-Deutsch" have vocally rejected the propagandistic notion of a "new anti-Semitism" in Europe and the United States as little more than a cynical ploy to feign racism where it doesn't exist and conflate anti-racist opposition to Israel with anti-Jewish racism.

In particular, there is virtually no evidence of "anti-Semitism" on the left. I posted a video of Noam Chomsky describing the reactionary history of trying to "find" such anti-Semitism. I would like to ask for some serious responses to the claims he made, as last time, some idiot simply dismissed Chomsky as an "insular bourgeois" (a sad, extreme, and somewhat ironic dismissal that was quite hilarious to hear on an internet forum):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvVlM5RlSe0

Quote:
Question: 'Incidents of anti-Semitism have come up at the Occupy protests. Why is anti-Semitism starting to rise among the left, and what is your advice to young Jewish activists?"

Chomsky: As far as I know, it's not true. [applause]

If you're out to look for it, you can find things. When you take a big mass of people, you can find a little bit of almost anything.

On the other hand, this claim that there's anti-Semitism on the left, just look at its history. Look at the early 1960s-70s. There was practically an industry of left-liberals, including the Democratic Socialists who were among the worst, trying to show that Dan Berrigan was an anti-Semite, that everyone who opened their mouths were anti-Semites. There were literally efforts -- Seymour Martin Lipset well known sociologist, was running big studies to run through Black Panther newspapers to see if he could find a poem by a twelve-year-old kid which maybe had some anti-Semitic implications. Okay, that shows they're all anti-Semites [sarcastically]. The cry of "anti-Semitism" is a good way to shut people up [applause] because nobody wants to be charged with that. I'd be pretty cautious about those charges. But if it's real, then you respond to it. Whatever it is, anti-Semitism today isn't even a toothpick on a mountain compared to anti-Muslim hysteria [applause].

A lot of the states in the Union here in [the United States] passing constitutional amendments to prevent the courts from using Halakha, Talmudic law [sarcastically]. If they did that, people wouldn't even laugh. But there are states doing something equally laughable and ridiculous -- except that it's dangerous -- which is trying to institute constitutional amendments to prevent the use of Sharia law. This is about as likely as an asteroid hitting the state [laughter]. But this is all over the place. That's real. The FBI is breaking into people's houses and arresting them for what's called "material support to terrorism" -- meaning they said something favorable to Palestinian movements or something. Nothing like that is happening to the Jewish population. If there are any bits and pieces of anti-Semitism, then fine, shout at them or argue against it. But I think it's extremely slight if it's there at all, in comparison to major movements of hatred and repression, hatred of immigrants, blacks, racism, anti-Muslim racism which is an extraordinary and really major phenomenon. [applause]

Norman Finkelstein's slightly dated but more or less accurate 2004 book "Beyond Chutzpah" also has a lengthy section describing this reactionary witch-hunt for what it is: an attempt to whitewash Israeli racism, in some cases, explicitly:

http://books.google.com.eg/books?id=qc6Tn-C2B5UC&pg=PA66&lpg=PA67&dq

Actual Statistics

The statistics are quite clear as well. There is virtually no evidence for some kind of massive upsurge in anti-Jewish racism. While some moderate increases in anti-Jewish sentiment took place in Spain in 2008 and should be cause for concern, it was likely a reaction to the vicious and racist Israeli bombardment of Gaza in that year. In contrast, massive spikes against Muslims and Arabs took place in virtually all major European countries that same year:

http://www.pewglobal.org/files/2008/09/Pew-2008-Pew-Global-Attitudes-Rep...

It's also important to note, former bastions of anti-Jewish sentiment, including the United States, have dramatically fallen. The notion suggested by some in the most delusional sections of the left, that anti-Jewish sentiment somehow exists outside the bounds of time and space and is some kind of ever-present form of bigotry -- a completely bullshit, a historical, and certainly anti-Marxist view of racism -- is clearly false.

Pinning it on Muslims

Other posters also brought up the recent Toulouse shootings in France, so I want to address that as well. The Toulouse shootings were, for one, not carried out by "leftists". But it is equally important to note who did carry them out: two "radicalized" (that is, Islamist) Muslim immigrants. Some posters suggested this is part of the "structural anti-Semitism" that they completely fabricated. Only if one believes that immigrants, let alone despondent, poorly integrated immigrants, are part of the ruling class and can thusly make their anti-Jewish extremist sentiments part of the general make-up of society, can one take this claim seriously. In reality, it is quite clear that they, like most Muslim immigrants in France, are marginalized. While completely incoherent views of racism would overlook this fairly obvious reality of anti-Muslim racism in France, an ahistorical view of "anti-Semitism" that is described on this forum would allow the crimes of individual marginalized immigrants to be a sign of structural racism.

That is why these kind of xenophobic claims, designed to present Muslims as some kind of new "Nazis," are usually only found on reactionary Islamophobic and Zionist websites -- and why it's so disturbing to see it repeated on an allegedly "leftist" forum. Indeed, as this article indicates, for whatever anti-Semitic feelings exist in Europe, most are also associated with Islamophobia:

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20090804/OPINION09/908040326/1004/...

As such, trying to scapegoat Muslims as part of some kind of "structural anti-Semitism" little more than xenophobic propaganda, in line with most slurs about Muslims as "unintegrateable" and otherwise threatening.

Anti-Semitism as structural, not absolute or always-existing

Some of the posters on this website seem to believe that anti-Semitism exists outside of the structures of capitalism and imperialism, and as such, attribute to it some kind of international, permanent power that exists outside of time and space. It is constantly there. Indeed, a few posters kept insisting that because anti-Semitism existed throughout the 20th century and that it was responsible for heinous crimes decades ago, it is therefore a constant threat. This is, of course, absurd, unless one believes that the international structures in question have remained exactly the same today as they were decades ago.

The reality is, quite obviously, not that. Anti-Jewish sentiment in Europe had always been used the same way anti-immigrant and modern anti-Muslim sentiment is used: as a form of scapegoating and as a reflection of the ethnic and racial biases of the ruling class.

The reality of the last seventy years in Europe has of course, dramatically changed, despite the naivete of some on the left that fall into the trap of the reactionary Zionist witch-hunt described by prominent leftists above.

Anti-Semitism has largely fallen out of favor in much of Europe (with obvious exceptions, including the some parts of the extreme right -- other parts of the extreme right have started adopting nominally pro-Jewish messages while further demonizing Muslims). In the aftermath of the 1967 war, especially, Israel and its attendant colonial narrative, and exploitation of the Holocaust, became key elements in what was previously a hostile environment for the discussion of the Holocaust. For example, Raul Hilberg, renowned Holocaust historian, mentioned that when he submitted his doctoral thesis about the Holocaust, he was told it would be the end of his academic career -- the US at the time still hired a number of Nazi war criminals to work in the West German government, and discussion of the Holocaust at the time was seen as espousing Communist/Stalinist sympathies.

After the 1967 war, on the other hand, the narrative of the Holocaust emphasized in the West -- singling out Jewish victims and portraying them with "Aryan" features in movie after movie -- became key method of integrating Jewish identity and Jewishness into the modern "white" identity, just as other ethnicities in previous contexts have done so (Irish, Italian, etc).

A more in-depth explanation of this process, and what truly rejecting anti-Semitism and its historical outgrowths look like is described in detail here by anti-Zionist Columbia Professor Joseph Massad here:

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/05/2013521184814703958.htm...

Particularly important parts of this essay include the following (the entire essay is worth reading):

Quote:
Scientific anti-Semitism insisted that the Jews were different from Christian Europeans. Indeed that the Jews were not European at all and that their very presence in Europe is what causes anti-Semitism. The reason why Jews caused so many problems for European Christians had to do with their alleged rootlessness, that they lacked a country, and hence country-based loyalty. In the Romantic age of European nationalisms, anti-Semites argued that Jews did not fit in the new national configurations, and disrupted national and racial purity essential to most European nationalisms. This is why if the Jews remained in Europe, the anti-Semites argued, they could only cause hostility among Christian Europeans. The only solution was for the Jews to exit from Europe and have their own country. Needless to say, religious and secular Jews opposed this horrific anti-Semitic line of thinking. Orthodox and Reform Jews, Socialist and Communist Jews, cosmopolitan and Yiddishkeit cultural Jews, all agreed that this was a dangerous ideology of hostility that sought the expulsion of Jews from their European homelands.

The Jewish Haskalah, or Enlightenment, which emerged also in the 19th century, sought to assimilate Jews into European secular gentile culture and have them shed their Jewish culture. It was the Haskalah that sought to break the hegemony of Orthodox Jewish rabbis on the "Ostjuden" of the East European shtetl and to shed what it perceived as a "medieval" Jewish culture in favour of the modern secular culture of European Christians. Reform Judaism, as a Christian- and Protestant-like variant of Judaism, would emerge from the bosom of the Haskalah. This assimilationist programme, however, sought to integrate Jews in European modernity, not to expel them outside Europe's geography.

When Zionism started a decade and a half after Marr's anti-Semitic programme was published, it would espouse all these anti-Jewish ideas, including scientific anti-Semitism as valid. For Zionism, Jews were "Semites", who were descendants of the ancient Hebrews. In his foundational pamphlet Der Judenstaat, Herzl explained that it was Jews, not their Christian enemies, who "cause" anti-Semitism and that "where it does not exist, [anti-Semitism] is carried by Jews in the course of their migrations", indeed that "the unfortunate Jews are now carrying the seeds of anti-Semitism into England; they have already introduced it into America"; that Jews were a "nation" that should leave Europe to restore their "nationhood" in Palestine or Argentina; that Jews must emulate European Christians culturally and abandon their living languages and traditions in favour of modern European languages or a restored ancient national language. Herzl preferred that all Jews adopt German, while the East European Zionists wanted Hebrew. Zionists after Herzl even agreed and affirmed that Jews were separate racially from Aryans. As for Yiddish, the living language of most European Jews, all Zionists agreed that it should be abandoned.

The majority of Jews continued to resist Zionism and understood its precepts as those of anti-Semitism and as a continuation of the Haskalah quest to shed Jewish culture and assimilate Jews into European secular gentile culture, except that Zionism sought the latter not inside Europe but at a geographical remove following the expulsion of Jews from Europe. The Bund, or the General Jewish Labor Union in Lithuania, Poland, and Russia, which was founded in Vilna in early October 1897, a few weeks after the convening of the first Zionist Congress in Basel in late August 1897, would become Zionism's fiercest enemy. The Bund joined the existing anti-Zionist Jewish coalition of Orthodox and Reform rabbis who had combined forces a few months earlier to prevent Herzl from convening the first Zionist Congress in Munich, which forced him to move it to Basel. Jewish anti-Zionism across Europe and in the United States had the support of the majority of Jews who continued to view Zionism as an anti-Jewish movement well into the 1940s.

Zionism and Anti-Semitism

But the consequence is that rather than completely disappearing, anti-Semitism has been warped into a form of apologism for Zionism. This is the dirty secret for many apologists for Israel, including the ADL, which have found themselves in the trap of defending or covering up grossly anti-Semitic incidents because they were carried out by allies of Israel:

http://fair.org/extra-online-articles/confusing-israel-criticism-and-ant...

Quote:
For example, when then -- Rep. Bob Dornan (R-Calif.), a strong supporter of Israel, called Soviet journalist Vladimir Posner a “disloyal, betraying little Jew” in 1986, pro-Israel congressmember Steven Solarz (D.-N.Y.) rushed to his defense, saying that the ethnic slur “should not be allowed to overshadow Bob’s long history of support and involvement with Israel.”

The Anti-Defamation League also backed Dornan, with spokesperson David Brodie saying that his attack on Posner was merely “unartful, unfortunate [and] inelegant” (AP, 2/28/86). Brodie added that the group he represented was regarded as “the last word on anti-Semitism. As far as ADL is concerned, this case is closed.”

Another obvious example of this is the widespread presence of anti-Jewish theology among right-wing supporters of Israel. Rather than traditional anti-Semitism, this sort of anti-Jewish screed is expressed as a form of Zionism:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/aipac-cheers-an-antisemit_b...

White Privilege

Some posters on this website believe white supremacy and white privilege to be little more than "conspiracy theories" and think that the existence or discussion of racism is somehow a rejection of class analysis. Outside of being a fairly obvious statement of their own white supremacist worldview (i.e. Don't talk about racism, just class!), anyone who hasn't ignored about 500 years of colonialism knows that race and racism are part of the international structures of imperialism and therefore capitalism. White privilege, Jewish privilege in the context of white privilege, or the race privileging of other groups in more localized contexts, are not "conspiracies". They are structural.

In the same way the ruling class depicts its interests as the general interests of society, including the interests of the class it subjugates, racism signifies that this dynamic concurrently presents the interests of dominant ethnic groups in a similar fashion. The production of "white" identity (and therefore white supremacy) is intimately associated with international European colonialism, which is why the modern racial hierarchies that oppress people grew within the last five hundred years.

As various ethnic groups in different context are integrated or expelled from the vague, socially constructed identity of "white people," different ethnic groups and ethnic signifiers can mean different things. The association of Jewish identity with the rest of European identity following Israel's 1967 destruction of Egypt and occupation of Palestine sealed the identification of Jewishness with the "white" identity in most of Europe and the United States. So while some reactionaries in those countries continue to espouse anti-Jewish views, they remain marginal and largely outside of the dominant structures of racism. However, because Zionism was key in perpetuating anti-Semitic myths (the most obvious being that Jews can only find safety and security if they leave Europe), anti-Semitism still exists THROUGH Zionism. That is, however, an obvious and radical departure from the kind of anti-Semitism that some "leftists" invoke ahistorically.

The privilege of white people exists within left-wing groups as well. This is fairly obvious. White names and faces are given greater authority, greater appeal, and are treated as more "presentable". By extension, the identification of Jews as "white" (even if other parts of their ethnicity are not white) against the depiction of Palestinians as the colonized means that Jewish people in the United States and Europe also share this privilege. The continued witch-hunt to find anti-Jewish sentiment on the left, especially where it does not exist, is not only a reactionary one (as described by most people who have slightly more sophisticated views on race than internet nobodies), but also an extension of this privilege. The effect is that any opposition to Israel, colonialism, or anything else deemed 'anti-Jewish" -- even if it isn't -- can be used to silence debate and whitewash racism against Palestinians. It would be akin to trying to find "anti-White" racism in an anti-Apartheid group. Sure, there may be marginal expressions of anti-white sentiment ("Kill the White Man" in South Africa), but to suggest that key elements of the struggle against Apartheid or exaggerated opposition to it are "anti-white" is little more than propaganda designed to ensure that a given space is acceptable to whites -- even when the complaints in question are groundless.

I hope this will spark some slightly more honest discussion than the dumpster-fest in the other thread, but at the very least I'm hoping that others who come across libcom (as I did) will find it to be a fairly thorough description of why this reactionary and extremist tendency found on what appears to be a number of internet left-wing forums is a house of cards.

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Tyrion
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Feb 24 2014 03:06

lol

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Feb 24 2014 03:18

Drac, I think you maybe have decided what people on this site think before you engaged with them and have engaged in a crusade against what you imagined us benighted libcom posters espouse. It's all feeling a bit weird at this point. Maybe just give up on us if you think we are so racist/stupid/imperialist/Zionist/whatever.

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Feb 24 2014 04:07

Really, it's now beyond self-parody.

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Feb 24 2014 07:51
Quote:
There is virtually no evidence for some kind of massive upsurge in anti-Jewish racism.

You lie. This article in Le Monde reporting the findings of a poll for the last five years says that 88% of Jewish people in France who responded said that they think there is more anti-semitism now than five years ago (more than 10% more than the European average response). This was part of a Europe wide trend.

“when we leave the synagogue we are asked to disperse quickly, with a lot of security personnel present, as far as I know this isn’t the case when you leave churches, temples and mosques.”

Thousands of Jews are leaving France every year and moving to Israel for this reason. Last year that number rose by 50%.

Quote:
Pinning it on Muslims

Other posters also brought up the recent Toulouse shootings in France, so I want to address that as well. The Toulouse shootings were, for one, not carried out by "leftists". But it is equally important to note who did carry them out: two "radicalized" (that is, Islamist) Muslim immigrants. Some posters suggested this is part of the "structural anti-Semitism" that they completely fabricated.

Where did I say that antisemitism is only a Muslim problem? Where? This is you projecting your own prejudices onto me and the others. In fact, although I can't find the link right now, there are studies that show that antisemitism is shared relatively equally throughout all different ethnic groups in France. The examples that were given were some of the most extreme and happen to have been committed by a particular ethnicity. Are you saying that any criticism of these actions is racist because they happen to have been committed by a person who is part of a marginalised group?!

Quote:
Only if one believes that immigrants, let alone despondent, poorly integrated immigrants, are part of the ruling class and can thusly make their anti-Jewish extremist sentiments part of the general make-up of society, can one take this claim seriously.

This is absurd. So, according to you, antisemitism is only a problem when bourgeois people are antisemitic?!

I am against all state oppression and all nationalism whatever form it might take and whatever ethnicity the person wielding that power may happen to be. The way that you seem to essentialise people on the basis of their skin colour and your extreme passion on the subject of Zionists and Jews, however, speaks to a disturbing degree of identification with the very system you claim to stand against. You claim to be against racism and bigotry but these are just willful subjective claims that objectively nearly all of your statements do not live up to. You want to see a leftist conspiracy to support Israel and, of course, behind that there is quite handily for you the specter of Jews and their 'supremacy'. You want to attack Jews but you can't do so directly as this would be too revealing so you attack anyone who even hints that antisemitism might be a problem anywhere. It's pathetic.

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Feb 24 2014 08:15

Btw, in no way does saying that there is a rise in antisemitism in Europe dismiss the fact that there has also been a rise in racism against people from different ethnic groups. To create such a dichotomy is simply to construct a straw man.

Drakula25
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Feb 24 2014 10:14

For anyone who is new here, Malva is part of the misguided pseudo-left tendency that has continued trying to "find" anti-Semitism on the left. He is part of the reactionary trend described by genuine left scholars above.

Quote:
You lie. This article in Le Monde reporting the findings of a poll for the last five years says that 88% of Jewish people in France who responded said that they think there is more anti-semitism now than five years ago (more than 10% more than the European average response). This was part of a Europe wide trend.

About as convincing as asking white people if they perceive a rise in anti-white feelings in the South because others were offended by their Confederate flags.

All throughout university campuses, likewise, this allegation of "anti-Semitism," undoubtedly sometimes made without dishonest intentions, has been used to stifle legitimate anti-racist opposition to Israel, including boycotts. The fact that someone perceives persecution is not evidence of anything, and indeed it may be made because someone perceives attacks on privileges they have as a result of their race (or class, etc). How many times have we heard white supremacists claim that "whites are under attack?" The fact is, when white supremacism in the United States had not been defeated yet, this perception was widespread, and there was a belief that civil rights activists were anti-white, etc.

As I pointed out, the ACTUAL evidence says otherwise.

Quote:
This is absurd. So, according to you, antisemitism is only a problem when bourgeois people are antisemitic?!

Malva, unable to address the subject properly, turns to straw men. NOBODY suggested that bias crimes like the murder in Toulouse is "not a problem". What a slanderous thing to say. Malva and others, on the other hand, tried to compare this despondency among immigrants with "structural anti-Semitism". Unless Malva believes that Islamist immigrants were wearing FN shirts and sieg-heiling when they went on their shooting spree, that is absolute bullshit. He is, as usual, conflating any bias crime against Jews in any context into one structural smokescreen.

Quote:
Btw, in no way does saying that there is a rise in antisemitism in Europe dismiss the fact that there has also been a rise in racism against people from different ethnic groups. To create such a dichotomy is simply to construct a straw man.

No shit, that's why you shouldn't invoke anti-Semitism to whitewash, dismiss, minimize, or otherwise unfairly slander the Palestine solidarity movement, which MULTIPLE posters accused of engaging in anti-Semitism for "singling out Israel". They presumed the singling out was over Israel's Jewishness, rather than its settler-colonialism. In their view, invoking anti-Semitism is a way to justify and defend Israeli racism and colonialism.

Either way, it's another strawman. I pointed out above (and I guess Malva ignored it) that the (exaggerated) increase in anti-Semitism is correlated with an increase in Islamophobia -- that is, the few people that are anti-Jewish are a subset of the larger group of people that is anti-Muslim. That is why it is so absurd for him to conflate anti-Jewish sentiment with ideas he doesn't like in the Palestine solidarity movement, and it is also so dishonest for him to conflate it with Muslim bias crimes. So long as we are talking about trends, his comments are all lies.

Drakula25
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Feb 24 2014 10:16

Hi Black Badger,

Still waiting on your answer. Do you think anti-Zionism is anti-Semitic, as one of your pamphlets suggested? Or do you think it's legitimate, as your other pamphlet suggested? Or are you just posting stupid shit without reading it?

Drakula25
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Feb 24 2014 10:19
RedEd wrote:
Drac, I think you maybe have decided what people on this site think before you engaged with them and have engaged in a crusade against what you imagined us benighted libcom posters espouse. It's all feeling a bit weird at this point. Maybe just give up on us if you think we are so racist/stupid/imperialist/Zionist/whatever.

Hi Red,

Unfortunately people outside of this marginal forum community read libcom. I want to make sure they know that the trend on this website (which you seem to deny existing) is wrong, and why.

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Feb 24 2014 10:19
Drakula25 wrote:
For anyone who is new here, Malva is part of the misguided pseudo-left tendency that has continued trying to "find" anti-Semitism on the left. He is part of the reactionary trend described by genuine left scholars above.

[...]

bias crimes

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Feb 24 2014 13:57

@Drakula. What I find most astounding is your claim that antisemitism isn't a real existing problem in Europe and that it doesn't pose a serious threat to any genuine attempts to abolish capitalist society for the better.

It goes without saying on this site that the prerequisite of a radically different society is the abolition of the state, of all states and all nations. I have not defended the state of Israel at all in anything I have posted. Of course, Israel, like the British, the French, the Thai, the Japanese state, or a future Palestinian state needs to be abolished. But 'abolish Israel' can mean two radically different things from different people. If it means "abolish the totality of capitalist social relations so that we can live in peace and harmony", then so be it, but if it means any shade of "destroy the nasty and malicious Israelis, bulldoze their cities and erase their peculiarly pernicious presence in the middle east" then that is antisemitic. I feel as though you cannot, or refuse to, understand this not so subtle differentiation. You even deny that this antisemitic critique of Israel is a serious problem or threat. This is dangerous, you are dangerous.

Furthermore, what is a "genuine left scholar"? An intellectual you agree with? I couldn't give a pig's fart for the authenticity of a person's membership of a leftist identity that I reject. I don't need to find antisemitism on the left, it finds me. Apparently in the form of a misguided internet militant called Drakula25. It is funny that you keep using this metaphor of whitewashing. It's that same old
trope that Jews and their stooges have blood on their hands.

There is a way of being against antisemitism and pseudo-critiques of capitalism that does not mean ignoring or denying the difficulties of Palestinians.

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Feb 24 2014 14:04

Oh and no-one mentioned 'new antisemitism' as in the title of this thread. I agree that there is no new antisemitism. It's the same old one that is shared pretty equally across ethnic boundaries. Don't shove me into a racist discourse that I am not a part of.

Drakula25
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Feb 24 2014 14:24
Malva wrote:
@Drakula. What I find most astounding is your claim that antisemitism isn't a real existing problem in Europe and that it doesn't pose a serious threat to any genuine attempts to abolish capitalist society for the better.

Yeah, you've said that, and I gave you a fairly thorough response, which you're ignoring.

Quote:
It goes without saying on this site that the prerequisite of a radically different society is the abolition of the state, of all states and all nations. I have not defended the state of Israel at all in anything I have posted.

No, you've CLAIMED to not defend Israel when in practice, that is exactly what you are doing.

Quote:
Of course, Israel, like the British, the French, the Thai, the Japanese state, or a future Palestinian state needs to be abolished. But 'abolish Israel' can mean two radically different things from different people. If it means "abolish the totality of capitalist social relations so that we can live in peace and harmony", then so be it, but if it means any shade of "destroy the nasty and malicious Israelis, bulldoze their cities and erase their peculiarly pernicious presence in the middle east" then that is antisemitic.

The latter is simply a particular and exaggerated-sounding version of the former.Your attempt to whitewash it by conflating its violence with all other states is a silly and ignorant worldview, that nobody in their right mind would suggest between any two states -- do you think the Soviet Union and Vatican City are equally threatening? Do you think the fact that people seem more critical of the former than the latter is proof of "anti-Russian" hatred? Bullshit.

But more importantly, even assuming Israel is "as bad" or "equal" or whatever other whitewash propaganda you are regurgitating, why would singling it out for whatever reason be proof of "anti-Semitism"? Maybe I'm singling it out because I'm Palestinian, and it affects me personally. Maybe I'm singling it out because I know more about it. Maybe I'm singling it out because people who are Palestinian have made their case to me more effectively than with other countries. Maybe I'm singling it out because it is vastly more powerful and influential than other states. Maybe I'm singling it out for criticism because people like you are effectively singling it out for support, whether you realize it or not. Maybe I'm singling it out because I see a difference between nationalism in general and settler-colonialism in particular. The list goes on, your conclusion that the latter is "anti-Semitism" is verbatim Israeli propaganda.

Quote:
Furthermore, what is a "genuine left scholar"? An intellectual you agree with?

Someone who isn't regurgitating Israeli propaganda like the AWL. Someone who has an enormous amount of evidence to make their case, based in serious and extensive analysis. In contrast, you posted your opinion that anti-Semitism is a threat today because it was a threat in the 1930s, and if I remember correctly, in the 1880s. Your worldview of racism is not rooted in history, you've reduced anti-Semitism to some kind of perpetual conspiracy that exists outside the bounds of time, history, and of course, class relations.

Quote:
There is a way of being against antisemitism and pseudo-critiques of capitalism that does not mean ignoring or denying the difficulties of Palestinians.

Yeah, and it doesn't include whitewashing Zionism or falsely alleging racism to minimize other forms of racism.

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Feb 24 2014 14:50

You need to get out more Drac.

Drakula25
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Feb 24 2014 14:53
Mr. Jolly wrote:
You need to get out more Drac.

I'm not a 49-year-old left-reject who frequents internet forums for company.

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