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Top 10 dead revolutionaries

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yoda's walking stick
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Jul 23 2011 03:20
Top 10 dead revolutionaries

Ok, so who would be on the list of your top ten favorite dead revolutionaries. I'm bored and think it would be fun if people put them in order. No doubt people will think this is silly, and it is. But again, I thought it might be fun.

P.S. We should totally make trading cards!

Alexander Roxwell
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Jul 23 2011 03:43

If the hype wype and horseshit is correct - and if it is it would be a first - I would put Spartacus on the top of my list.

yoda's walking stick
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Jul 23 2011 04:04

I love animals, and have recently been fascinated by John Oswald, a proselytizing vegetarian and a leader in the French Revolution.

Wikipedia

Quote:
Oswald in France
With the outbreak of the French Revolution of 1789, Oswald travelled to Paris, and soon joined the Jacobin Club. In that body, he pressed for more energetic intervention by the Jacobins in British affairs, arguing that a revolution in England was essential for peace between the two nations. An address to a Manchester radical organization was sent by the Jacobins on Oswald's urgings. According to some reports, Oswald was sent to Ireland to offer French support for an Irish rebellion, but little appeared to come of this effort.
In March 1792, Oswald called for the universal arming of the masses, and began organizing a small army of sans-culottes in Paris known as the First Battalion of Pikers. With the outbreak of monarchist counter-revolution in La Vendée, the First Battalion proceeded against the insurgents. Oswald died in the battle of Ponts-de-Cee on September 14, 1793.

The Cry of Nature

John Oswald, like his contemporary Rousseau argued that modern society was in conflict with man's nature. Oswald argued in The Cry of Nature or an Appeal to Mercy and Justice on Behalf of the Persecuted Animals, that man is naturally equipped with feelings of mercy and compassion. If each man had to personally experience the death of the animals he ate, so argued Oswald, a vegetarian diet would be far more common. The division of labour, however, allows modern man to eat flesh without experiencing the prompting of man's natural sensitivities, while the brutalization of modern man made him inured to these sensitivities. Although Oswald gave compassion a central place in his philosophy, and was a vegetarian, he was not a pacifist, as evidenced by the fact that he died fighting in the French Revolution.

I dug up one book on him, that I've since read, called "Commerce Des Lumieres: John Oswald and the British in Paris, 1790-1793." It's pretty dry and there doesn't seem to be enough of a historical record of Oswald to justify a full-length book, unfortunately.

EDIT: But I'm setting a poor example. I really wish someone would provide a full list of their top ten choices, in order, all in one go!

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Ed
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Jul 23 2011 18:09

You first man, I'm still having a think.. this is a sunday hangover thread i reckon so expect something tomorrow..

But to start off: Durruti (obviously)

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Joe Hell
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Jul 24 2011 05:24

Anton Nilsson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Nilson

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Serge Forward
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Jul 24 2011 09:14

Wolfie Smith

Jared
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Jul 24 2011 09:55

I second Durruti, for sure. And I'd put Rudolf Rocker up there too.

svenne
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Jul 24 2011 14:34

SUF:s magazine Direkt Aktion made refrigerator magnets, and that's as close as bad ass revolutionary trading cards you can come... :

nastyned
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Jul 24 2011 15:20

There were some 'anarchist top trumps' produced at one point.

Here's my top ten, subject to revision at any time I decide to put some more thought into it:

Malatesta
Bakunin
Makhno
Kropotkin
Durruti
Jaime Balius
Giuseppe Fanelli
Seisdedos
Otto Rühle
Ernst Schneider

Boris Badenov
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Jul 24 2011 15:55

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cantdocartwheels
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Jul 25 2011 14:33

louise michel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Michel
and charlie m obviously, among others

S. Artesian
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Jul 25 2011 20:36

How about classes, armies, organizations, instead of individuals?

Like the sans-culottes of Paris 1789-1799

The Paris Commune of 1871

The Haitian ex-Slaves of the Toussaint's army.

The former slaves who formed the Union League Associations in the US South

The Russian proletariat of 1917.

The Spanish proletariat 1936-39.

The Mambisas of the Ten Years War, and then the Cuban War for Independence.

The population of Soweto 1976-1994

The League of Revolutionary Black Workers in the US

The left communists of Turkey, sacrificed by the Bolsheviks to placate Ataturk and secure Russia's Southern flank.

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Jul 26 2011 00:44

I have been really into Rocker, Goldman and Berkman recently. True libertarians, true internationalists.

I have to say though, THE trump card to top all trump cards would have to be THE FUCKING PROLETARIAT AND ALL THOSE SMALL MOVEMENTS THAT MADE REVOLUTIONARY WAVES CRASH DOWN THE GATES OF THE RULING CLASS!

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Jul 26 2011 21:14
Arbeiten wrote:
I have to say though, THE trump card to top all trump cards would have to be THE FUCKING PROLETARIAT AND ALL THOSE SMALL MOVEMENTS THAT MADE REVOLUTIONARY WAVES CRASH DOWN THE GATES OF THE RULING CLASS!

This. Also, Bakunin - still underrated by most anarchists.

wojtek
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Jul 26 2011 22:53

Neither dead nor an anarchist, but Kathleen Cleaver cos she was hot as. What the hell, any black panther with a fro!!

allabouttactics
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Jul 26 2011 23:14

albert camus
peter hancock
chairman mao

some hot women

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Arbeiten
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Jul 26 2011 23:20

mao..... eek

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Tojiah
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Jul 27 2011 00:34
Arbeiten wrote:
mao..... eek

Hey, he's All About Tactics.

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Jul 27 2011 07:01

Some of my favourite French ones:

Charles Fourier
Marquis De Sade
Guy Debord
Louise Michel
Isidore Ducasse

Samotnaf
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Jul 28 2011 03:05

What about Babeuf?

Or Jacques Roux? ("Roux proclaimed his Manifesto of the Enragés in which he demanded the abolition of private property and class society in the name of the people he represented. In many ways Roux and the Enragés were prescient in anticipating many of the themes Karl Marx would develop in his analytical theory decades later. Soon, Roux's incendiary rhetoric was igniting food riots and upsetting the balance of power " - Wikipedia)

(Ducasse/Lautreamont was not "a revolutionary", even though his writings were excellent).

And fuck Mao, the guy who brought intensified mass starvation to China.

Samotnaf
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Jul 28 2011 03:17

allabouttactics:
Who's peter hancock? (Tony's The Rebel has some radical aspects - are they related?)

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Jul 28 2011 06:49
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(Ducasse/Lautreamont was not "a revolutionary", even though his writings were excellent).

Actually he was a Blanquist. I am writing a chapter about Ducasse and the Situationists for my Phd, based in part on this by Vaneigem.

Samotnaf
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Jul 28 2011 08:16

My mistake then - didn't know that about Ducasse - I'll have to read that 50s text by Vaneigem: I'm sure you'll plagiarise from him - progress implies it.

English revolutionaries:
Wat Tyler and Jack Straw (the original one, from the peasant uprising 630 years ago).
Abiezer Coppe and Joseph Salmon, ranters from the 17th century.
Guy Aldred.
Jack Common.
And from Croatia - Ante Ciliga (his 'Russian Enigma' is brilliant).

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Jul 28 2011 08:39
Samotnaf wrote:
My mistake then - didn't know that about Ducasse - I'll have to read that 50s text by Vaneigem: I'm sure you'll plagiarise from him - progress implies it.

English revolutionaries:
Wat Tyler and Jack Straw (the original one, from the peasant uprising 630 years ago).
Abiezer Coppe and Joseph Salmon, ranters from the 17th century.
Guy Aldred.
Jack Common.
And from Croatia - Ante Ciliga (his 'Russian Enigma' is brilliant).

Ciliga became a kind of Croatian left nationalist, he wrote in Ustasha journals 43-44 and supported bourgeois politicians like Macek after the war

Samotnaf
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Jul 28 2011 12:27

Entdinglichung: when you say Ciliga wrote in Ustasha journals 43-44, do you mean the sadistic fascist anti-semites during the war (1943-44)? Didn't know that at all. However, a lot of previously revolutionary individuals, if they lived long enough, became supporters of one form or another of the status quo - often out of not being heard in their critique of Leninism or Stalinism (not by any means excusing Ciliga writiing for the Ustasha, if that's what you meant). Nevertheless, The Russian Enigma's still a revolutionary piece of writing (and, for instance, Marx was racist towards Slavs, so even those who remained revolutionary in some way were full of contradictions that one wouldn't have expected of them; on a different level, Debord, mentioned here by Malva, could write a good - and original for its time - critique of the cadre, yet still hang out with a top cadre like Lebovici; again, not putting it on the same level as helping Nazi sympathisers).

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Jul 28 2011 13:11
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Debord, mentioned here by Malva, could write a good - and original for its time - critique of the cadre, yet still hang out with a top cadre like Lebovic

I don't want to derail the thread but ... I think the relationship between Lebovici and Debord is a bit like that between Engels and Marx. Both Debord and Marx needed cash to continue their work and they found capitalists who were good friends and more than willing to finance them. It is problematic to some extent, but then again revolutionary writers are subject to the same need for money as anyone else in the capitalist system so it is good when they find some way of continuing to write without compromising themselves too much. Neither Marx nor Debord ended up supporting the status quo due to these relationships. (Also, i am pretty sure that cadre refers only to 'professionals' or 'middle management' rather than a media mogul like Lebovici. Lebovici was a member of the capitalist class and owned several business enterprises.)

Samotnaf
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Jul 28 2011 13:34

Which makes him worse than a cadre; other revolutionaries didn't compromise themselves so far, and Marx's relationship with Engels should also be subject to critique. I'd say it was one of the elements in their - and subsequent Marxist/Marxian ideologies - determinism and in their ideology of progress (which separated them from the mass of proletarians for whom an ideology of "progress" was a little more problematic) - but as you say , this is a derail...

Dannny
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Jul 28 2011 14:23

To be fair, if the topic isn't derailed then we would just be reading post after post consisting of lists of names...
On Marx's anti-Slav racism, I'm reading Kevin Anderson's Marx at the Margins at the moment and he makes the case that his racism towards the Slavs was something that he rid himself of over the course of his life, along with, incidentally, much of the determinist, unilinear ideology of progress he had around the time of the Manifesto. Curiously in relation to the last few posts, Anderson suggests that Marx's movements in this direction tended to draw him into conflict with Engels, or that this was an intellectual foray on which Engels did not accompany Marx, possibly explaining why certain of Marx's interesting notes on pre-capitalist, Asiatic modes of production, did not make it into Capital volume 3.
I am far from an expert on such matters myself, and not really in a position to judge, although it does seem occasionally that he overstates differences between Marx and Engels. It could also be that Engels changed his opinion of Slavs too, I don't know, I hope so as Anderson quotes one particularly ugly passage of his early in the book.

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Jul 28 2011 14:32
Samotnaf wrote:
Entdinglichung: when you say Ciliga wrote in Ustasha journals 43-44, do you mean the sadistic fascist anti-semites during the war (1943-44)? Didn't know that at all. However, a lot of previously revolutionary individuals, if they lived long enough, became supporters of one form or another of the status quo - often out of not being heard in their critique of Leninism or Stalinism (not by any means excusing Ciliga writiing for the Ustasha, if that's what you meant). Nevertheless, The Russian Enigma's still a revolutionary piece of writing (and, for instance, Marx was racist towards Slavs, so even those who remained revolutionary in some way were full of contradictions that one wouldn't have expected of them; on a different level, Debord, mentioned here by Malva, could write a good - and original for its time - critique of the cadre, yet still hang out with a top cadre like Lebovici; again, not putting it on the same level as helping Nazi sympathisers).

there has still some research to be done on the topic but Philippe Bourrinet wrote in an article from the mid-1990ies (in German, don't know if available in anothe language) that Ciliga was first sentenced do death in 1942 by the Ustasha but pardoned and released in January 1943 when he started publishing mainly in the catholic magazine Spremnost but probably also in the Ustasha organ Hrvatski narod, he was also (despite his sympathies for the Allies) appointed as a professor for history and sociology at Zagreb university in 1944, he declined to join the Tito partisans and travelled 1944/45 through Germany and Austria, at the end of war, he was in Switzerland, up to his death in 1992, he mainly lived in France and Italy, ran for the Croatian exile parliament and wrote for a number of croatian exile publications (he was editor of the social democrat Bilten Hrvatske Demokratske i Socijalne Akcije; on his post-1945 publications, Bourrinet summarises, that there is a strange contradiction between nationalistic stuff on yugoslavian issues while still displaying a kind of cosmopolitanism on other issues

Samotnaf
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Jul 28 2011 14:56

Entdinglichung:
Thanks - hard to know what compromises I might feel forced to make if I was sentenced to death and compromise was the only way out as, surprisingly, it's never happened to me (so far): he tried to commit suicide in the gulag but that was mainly a threat/bargaining ploy to get him set free (iirc), but the threat of death tends to make for some terrible decisions (witness all those concentration camp survivors, so guilty about what they did to survive that decades later they committed suicide). And the war made for some of the worst compromises (Andre Breton spoke on the radio for the Gaullist Resistance...talking of which,I reckon Benjamin Peret, the best of the surrealists, could go on the list, though not top 10)...

Danny:
I'll try and get a copy of that book - even if a bit of Marxaeocology, it sounds interesting.

allabouttactics
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Jul 28 2011 16:45

I actually don't know who Peter Hancock is and I don't like Mao (an incredible man but when he was old he was a disaster)

odd grin