CNT on chavez

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Steven.
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Mar 28 2007 12:05
Andibachev wrote:
Hey, don't kick me when i'm down wink
I'm suggesting that this theory,

You presented it as fact

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both credible

Bollocks. Anarchists helping a US military invasion to install a fascistic right-wing dictator who they fought against for years is not believable, it's fucking moronic.

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and widely believed

Bullshit. Who else believes this? I've never even heard such bollocks. Present your evidence for this widespread belief then.

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All this petty intelluctualism really alienates your average guy on the street, the main reason that the majoirty are unwilling to take an interest in politics.

Yeah the main reason most of my "normal" friends aren't interested in politics is because I don't believe made up bullshit spouted by some stalinist loon on the internet roll eyes

Andibachev
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Mar 28 2007 12:11

no, it means trying to push your status by argueing for the currently popular issues irrelevent of any kind of changes in ideas which you find unappealing. In other words- trying, but not exactly being, an intellectual, as far as i'm concerned most of the popular and unpopular "thinkers" of modern times are petty intellectualists, because they are all inspired by the stream of media analysis that bends in favour of the status quo, and mistakenly take this for fact.
Let's look at Cuba again, a communist country, North Korea, a rather iscolated country is also communist, as was Stalin. So the three are connected, and the shining example of working communism in Cuba is clouded by images of the frozen plains of 1950's Russia and the Gulag. This is an unappealing image, and infects the notion of communism from something "good" the benefits the working people, and turns it into some bad horror movie.

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Steven.
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Mar 28 2007 12:17

Right so the gulags were bad therefore lies you make up are true? Gotcha! Are you in a left-wing group or party, do you mind if I ask?

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Joseph Kay
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Mar 28 2007 12:19
Andibachev wrote:
In other words- trying, but not exactly being, an intellectual, as far as i'm concerned most of the popular and unpopular "thinkers" of modern times are petty intellectualists, because they are all inspired by the stream of media analysis that bends in favour of the status quo, and mistakenly take this for fact.
Let's look at Cuba again, a communist country, North Korea, a rather iscolated country is also communist, as was Stalin. So the three are connected, and the shining example of working communism in Cuba is clouded by images of the frozen plains of 1950's Russia and the Gulag.

so you think anarchists are simply parotting the mainstream media when they criticise state capitalist dictatorships? i bet bakunin just hated castro. he probably invaded at the bay of pigs too.

Bakunin over a century ago wrote:
When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called "the People's Stick."

Andibachev
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Mar 28 2007 12:22

Actually, I sought advice on the Bay of Pigs- Cuban disenfranchised groups were involved- Anarchists amongst them, that's a fact. The report the CIA showed to the senate after the inicident proved it. Although I can't tell you exactly what this document what titled, you could find a little info on the following link.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/bayofpigs/cuba.html

Steven.'s picture
Steven.
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Mar 28 2007 12:22

So are you in any group Andi?

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Joseph Kay
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Mar 28 2007 12:34
Andibachev wrote:
Actually, I sought advice on the Bay of Pigs- Cuban disenfranchised groups were involved- Anarchists amongst them, that's a fact. The report the CIA showed to the senate after the inicident proved it. Although I can't tell you exactly what this document what titled, you could find a little info on the following link.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/bayofpigs/cuba.html

no mention of anarchists on that page, and i'm not going to read through pages of scanned transcripts to back up your claim.

Andibachev
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Mar 28 2007 12:52
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no mention of anarchists on that page, and i'm not going to read through pages of scanned transcripts to back up your claim.

Oh no...
I'll try and find the documents just to prove myself right. wink

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So are you in any group Andi?

Why do you ask?

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Mar 28 2007 12:56
Andibachev wrote:
I'll try and find the documents just to prove myself right.

there are pdfs of scanned transcripts of testimonial evidence on there, if you find anything let me know which one and the page number, it's always interesting to see shit things done in the name of anarchism, it would probably make our list tongue

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Mar 28 2007 13:01
Andibachev wrote:
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So are you in any group Andi?

Why do you ask?

Because I'm trying to see if that claim is the "line" of a group. Also it'd give me an idea of where you're coming from. You say you support Cuba, for example. I'm coming from an anarchist communist point of view, and I was wondering what yours was.

Andibachev
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Mar 28 2007 13:31

Like the list- you should add your opposition to my arguement in there too. wink

My viewpoint is this; primarily communist, recognising the need to accept other groups and individuals with likeminded ideology in order to combat the greater foe. textbook.
and yourselves; Anarcho-Communist I pressume...?

(Oh BTW no.3 on the list... anti-semitic? did he hate the Jews or the Palestinians, because both are Semities.)

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Joseph Kay
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Mar 28 2007 13:43

proudhon hated jews irrc (they're all usurers i tell you!) as in the common usage of 'anti-semite', though i wouldn't bet he was fond of other semites, the misogynist prick

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Mar 28 2007 13:49

James Wooley's letter should be on that list.

Joseph Kay's picture
Joseph Kay
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Apr 5 2007 14:49
Joseph K. wrote:
Andibachev wrote:
I'll try and find the documents just to prove myself right.

there are pdfs of scanned transcripts of testimonial evidence on there, if you find anything let me know which one and the page number, it's always interesting to see shit things done in the name of anarchism

any luck finding the documents? or are you going to withdraw your claim that anarchists were involved in the bay of pigs invasion?

Steven.'s picture
Steven.
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Apr 5 2007 14:51

Ha I'd forgotten about this guy. That's such a stupid claim it's funny.

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Apr 5 2007 22:20
Joseph K. wrote:
Joseph K. wrote:
Andibachev wrote:
I'll try and find the documents just to prove myself right.

there are pdfs of scanned transcripts of testimonial evidence on there, if you find anything let me know which one and the page number, it's always interesting to see shit things done in the name of anarchism

any luck finding the documents? or are you going to withdraw your claim that anarchists were involved in the bay of pigs invasion?

there where anarchist guerrillas in cuba for a while after castro and the komintern took power.

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Joseph Kay
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Apr 5 2007 22:58

i can believe that, but is there any evidence anarchists took part in the bay of pigs? andibachev was looking ... i mean anarchists have historically shown themselves capable of great stupidity but i'd still like to see some evidence before accepting random internet conjecture as fact

Andibachev
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Apr 6 2007 12:16

Ah I've been preoccupied with Iran, apologies.
I didn't find anything in that particular link, but the names of people involved were presented to the US senate in a document that was declassified in 1996 (I believe it was), i've been unable to obtain a copy of the report on the internet, and I certianly don't have connections in the CIA either, and on that note, I don't have a list of every single anarchist militant in Cuba around the time. However if these two documents were presented to me I would eagerly get out a nice red highlighter and go over the connecting names.
I understand that without evidence mere conjecture seems like a flash in the pan, although we can look at the situation this way;
If your group had battled along side Castro then only to find themselves shafted at the last minute, wouldn't you be pissed off enough to lend a hand at the first chance of revenge? And of course, we can always remember the words of wisdom passed down from one thread to another...

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anarchists have historically shown themselves capable of great stupidity

petey
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Apr 6 2007 16:42
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there where anarchist guerrillas in cuba for a while after castro

there's still an anarchist cuban group: this is a statement

Merrie England
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Apr 8 2007 00:11

Hmmm. Chavez. Comes to power, makes promises based on the price of a commodity which the west is trying to replace.Oil price plummets, Chavez unpopular,, shit hits the fan. Police and Army roundups, killing, brutalizing rape, torture.

Andibachev
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Apr 8 2007 01:01
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Hmmm. Chavez. Comes to power, makes promises based on the price of a commodity which the west is trying to replace.Oil price plummets, Chavez unpopular,, shit hits the fan. Police and Army roundups, killing, brutalizing rape, torture.

And you'd be the first to join in would'ntcha? sick bastard... wink

Makhno
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Apr 10 2007 15:25

Andibachev; I understand that without evidence mere conjecture seems like a flash in the pan, although we can look at the situation this way;

You're some trot geezer with a boner for Chavez/Castro.

wink

Makhno
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Apr 10 2007 15:25

DP.

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sabot
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Dec 7 2012 16:00

Resurrecting this old thread as to bring up some earlier issues with the discussion I had regarding the Global Women's Strike. It seems that there were some earlier concerns of the GWS were possibly uncritical of chavismo politics (particularly article 88).

Figured I post this old article* from their website:
http://www.globalwomenstrike.net/content/article-88-and-wages-caring-wor...

It’s probably true that some in GWS may have some vague left politics but I’m not too sure that the organization as a whole gives full on support of Chavez or is a possible tankie front. Please correct me if I’m misinformed.

*article postdates discussion

Oh, just curious, what does WFH stand for?

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Dec 7 2012 16:39
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Whats with all this anti-Chavattitude?

Mr. T