EDL

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Arthur
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Joined: 19-11-09
Nov 20 2009 09:53
EDL

I'll lay my cards on the table straight away, I'm a member of EDL and I wanted to try to correct the image that you seem to have of us. I haven't come over to wind you up or convert you.

EDL is not in anyway racist nor are we connected in anyway with the nazi groups like the BNP or C18 or in fact any other group, we are EDL.

In the beginning EDL made mistakes, many of us have never been involved with this type of thing before, people were involved who should not have been, most of these are now gone as have the sieg hailers, we can't be blamed for the odd one getting through.

We are in fact as anti fascist as you and the fascists that we are against are Islamic, not ordinary hard working muslims who just want to earn a crust and get on with their lives.

If, as the lying media says, we are racist, why do we carry banners saying black and white unite and why do we have black members?

If we are nazis, why did we burn the nazi flag in public?

If we are far right why do we get hate messages from the far right.?

Yes many of our members are football fans and look like football fans, some in the their youth were football hooligans but so what, can't people change..

Of course in the political arena we are quite different because we are patriots, Queen and country and proud to be so.

Arthur.

gypsy
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Joined: 20-09-09
Nov 20 2009 09:58

Fuck you. Your not welcome on this site.

knightrose
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Nov 20 2009 10:11

Why do we see people giving nazi salutes on EDL demos

Arthur
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Nov 20 2009 10:21

I know that I'm not welcome, mainly because like many people you are taken in by media and UAF lies.

Funny how some of you come over to our forum and try to disrupt it and when one of us tries to talk to you and not try to be disruptive you swear at me.

Arthur

Arthur
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Nov 20 2009 10:29

Any one caught giving nazi salutes at any of our demos is dealt with in no uncertain terms.
Some of these undesirables infiltrate to try to disrupt and destroy because we are non racist and inclusive.
We also believe that some UAF people do this.

Arthur.

gypsy
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Nov 20 2009 10:30

Why don't you try and get rid of extremist christianity aswell then? Since it is also a 'foriegn religion'. Whats with all the usage of words and names such as the templar knights(equally worst terrorists) and stuff in your videos?

Jason Cortez
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Joined: 14-11-04
Nov 20 2009 10:30

Actually, I think the fact that you support "Queen and Country" is enough to make you unwelcome here. Whether you are 'really' fascists seems largely irrelevant to me, you represent a reactionary anti-working class tendency that offers only more misery for working class people.

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madashell
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Nov 20 2009 10:32

Why is it that you only bother to target Muslims then? Why stand outside mosques chanting abuse?

It's not like there aren't plenty of Christian fundamentalists in this country, and yet you lot only target a religion mostly associated with Asian people and first and second generation migrants. Now why might that be?

gypsy
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Nov 20 2009 10:32
Jason Cortez wrote:
Actually, I think the fact that you support "Queen and Country" is enough to make you unwelcome here. Whether you are 'really' fascists seems largely irrelevant to me, you represent a reactionary anti-working class tendency that offers only more misery for working class people.

True why you so obsessed with an inbred monarchy which is also 'foriegn'?

Arthur
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Nov 20 2009 10:41
allybaba wrote:
Why don't you try and get rid of extremist christianity aswell then? Since it is also a 'foriegn religion'. Whats with all the usage of words and names such as the templar knights(equally worst terrorists) and stuff in your videos?

Because we are inclusive all faiths are welcome, Muslims, hindus,christians and like myself atheists.
Also we allow free speech so there are many people with a different view, there are also people with names like flower power and freedomfry, people on the net seem to like having these type names, my real name is Arthur.
Arthur.

Arthur
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Nov 20 2009 10:44
Jason Cortez wrote:
Actually, I think the fact that you support "Queen and Country" is enough to make you unwelcome here. Whether you are 'really' fascists seems largely irrelevant to me, you represent a reactionary anti-working class tendency that offers only more misery for working class people.

But we are the working class and of course we are reacting, we react to the danger from extreme islam.

Arthur

gypsy
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Nov 20 2009 10:46

What about the templar knights? Probably some of the worst terrorists in history.

Jason Cortez
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Nov 20 2009 10:50

again whether you are a multi-cultural and intra-faith organisation is neither here or there. You are a nationalist organisation that believes it is defending 'england' from outside influences, specifically muslim ones. i have no interest in defending 'my Queen and Country' i desire to abolish the class system and all 'nations'.

Jason Cortez
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Nov 20 2009 10:53

It does not matter that you define yourselves as belonging to the working class, you are acting against the class interest.

Arthur
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Nov 20 2009 10:53
madashell wrote:
Why is it that you only bother to target Muslims then? Why stand outside mosques chanting abuse?

It's not like there aren't plenty of Christian fundamentalists in this country, and yet you lot only target a religion mostly associated with Asian people and first and second generation migrants. Now why might that be?

EDL have never had a demo outside a mosque, Harrow was nothing to do with us.

Islam is not a race and nor is it strictly speaking a religion, it's a political ideology with a religious component. It's a fascist ideology that is oppressive and treats woman and gays in a disgusting way and it has to be fought against. By all of us.

Arthur.

Jason Cortez
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Nov 20 2009 10:57

whereas catholicism doesn't treat gays and women in a similar way? Look this nonsense is not going to wash here.

gypsy
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Nov 20 2009 11:00

Arthur what do the EDL think about christianity?

Arthur
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Nov 20 2009 11:07

I understand that you want to abolish all nations, so do the Islamic fascists and they are prepared to bomb us into submission.

EDL have one specific aim, to wake people and politicians up to the threat of extreme islam and sharia law, which already operates here and oppresses many Muslims, especially women.
When we have done this we will disband, we are not a political party and are not looking for votes or power.

As for Templar knights, it's just a name on the net.

Arthur.

Arthur
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Nov 20 2009 11:10
Jason Cortez wrote:
whereas catholicism doesn't treat gays and women in a similar way? Look this nonsense is not going to wash here.

Yes they do but they are not looking to throw gays off of mountains and bomb us.
Arthur.

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madashell
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Nov 20 2009 11:11
Arthur wrote:
EDL have never had a demo outside a mosque, Harrow was nothing to do with us

So none of your protests have targetted mosques? Your members have never deliberately marched past mosques?

Quote:
Islam is not a race and nor is it strictly speaking a religion, it's a political ideology with a religious component. It's a fascist ideology that is oppressive and treats woman and gays in a disgusting way and it has to be fought against. By all of us.
Arthur wrote:
Because we are inclusive all faiths are welcome, Muslims, hindus,christians and like myself atheists.

So you welcome people who believe in "a fascist ideology"? Islam is no more (or less) inherently homophobic or sexist than Christianity, Judaism or the rest (not that that's a tremendous compliment). By exclusively targetting Muslims (and only talking about Muslim fundamentalists while using Christian symbolism) you are primarily targetting Asians and recent migrants.

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madashell
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Nov 20 2009 11:13
Arthur wrote:
EDL have one specific aim, to wake people and politicians up to the threat of extreme islam and sharia law, which already operates here and oppresses many Muslims, especially women.

Sharia law as it actually exists in this country is no different to the Jewish Beth Din (which isn't exactly friendly to women or gay people in it's Orthodox variants either).

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madashell
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Nov 20 2009 11:14
Arthur wrote:
Jason Cortez wrote:
whereas catholicism doesn't treat gays and women in a similar way? Look this nonsense is not going to wash here.

Yes they do but they are not looking to throw gays off of mountains and bomb us.
Arthur.

Yeah, who ever heard of a Catholic terrorist. That'd just be silly.

Jason Cortez
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Joined: 14-11-04
Nov 20 2009 11:14

i think that the bombings commonly known as 7/7 may have done that all by themselves. If you are not looking for power to affect things why exist?? You are the mirror image of those you profess to oppose.

Arthur
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Joined: 19-11-09
Nov 20 2009 11:16
allybaba wrote:
Arthur what do the EDL think about christianity?

Officially EDL has no religious affiliation because we have other religions among our membership.

My personal opinion is that I wish religion would go away, but they have a democratic right to practise whatever faith they like.

Arthur.

Jason Cortez
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Nov 20 2009 11:21
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EDL have one specific aim, to wake people and politicians up to the threat of extreme islam and sharia law, which already operates here and oppresses many Muslims, especially women.

Yes by creating street conflicts with muslim asian youth. all you will achieve is the strengthening of the state and the deepening of sectarian divisions in the working class.

Arthur
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Joined: 19-11-09
Nov 20 2009 11:28

Yes, there were and are cathlic terrorist and and we would be against that, all forms of terrorism.
But EDL are trying to defend our democratic way of life things like free speech, the right to demonstrate. To have one law for all.

Many muslim groups also agree with us you know.
Arthur.

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madashell
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Nov 20 2009 11:34
Arthur wrote:
Yes, there were and are cathlic terrorist and and we would be against that, all forms of terrorism.

So perhaps the problem is nationalism and sectarian division of the sort that you lot are helping to agravate, rather than the particular brand of reactionary fairy tale somebody subscribes to?

Quote:
But EDL are trying to defend our democratic way of life things like free speech, the right to demonstrate. To have one law for all.

The only serious threat to free speech and the right to demonstrate is coming from the British state, which you seek to defend.

Arthur
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Joined: 19-11-09
Nov 20 2009 11:45

Jason, the truth is that the UAF told Asians that we are the BNP, so their response was what you would expect, a riot.
None of the UAF banners were against EDL, they were all against the BNP and we are not the BNP and we deplore all nazis and most of us think Griffin is a nazi.

In fact Griffin has said EDL are a government funded Zionist plot and forbidden any BNP to join us and frankly I'm glad because I don't agree with and wouldn't have anything to do with them.

We wish to hold peaceful demos but we cannot do that if the UAF tell people that we are racists connected to the BNP. That is bound to cause trouble.

The funding of the radicals comes mainly from the Saudis, so when we get round to a demo outside their embassy, how can the UAF and other anti fascists groups oppose that. What excuse will they come up with.

Arthur.

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cantdocartwheels
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Nov 20 2009 12:09
Arthur wrote:
Quuen and Country

Few quick questions out of interest. You say you support queen and country so
do you then support wars in iraq and afghanistan? Since the EDL talks a lot about how the government apparently has an ''open door immigration policy'' do you think immigrants should be deported like the cleaners were at SOAS the other month? And lastly do you honestly think the monarchy gives a flying fuck about the jobless, the poor and the ex-soldiers on our streets? Do you think prince charles is going to come in and help you out or something?

Quote:
But we are the working class and of course we are reacting, we react to the danger from extreme islam.
Arthur

What danger would that be? I mean we all have limited time in the world to devote to getting behind causes we beleive in, yet the EDL seem to obsessively prioritise what is effectively a fairly minor issue in this country. Unless you genuinely think muslims represent some sort of demographic timebomb that will take over the country and make us all obey sharia law or some other mental racist nonsense.
I know whats most likely to kill me; its the fact that i now have to work till i'm 70 and cuts in the NHS. Its not a handful of muslim loonies who want to blow me up on the tube or some one man and his dog weirdo group who want to set up a caliphate in bethnal green. They are completely irrelevant, i'm more likely to be runover by a bus, killed by lightning or a sudden meteor shower

I don;t see you lot protesting against the BNP or organising against homegrown fascism, I don;t see any of you supporting tube cleaners or posties on strike, i don;t see you mentioning NHS sell offs or increases in the retirment age or fighting job cuts or cuts in support for working families. In fact its safe to say you do nothing other than protest against islamc extremism, why is this? What possible reason could you have for such a narrow focus?.
You know I tell you what, if I see the EDL come down to dagenham and chase the BNP off the streets then maybe just maybe we wuldn;t dismiss you as racist, but untill then its pretty clear that people will think you've just picked on islamic extremism because your a bunch of racists, and thats how you'll be treated. The BNP get close on to a million votes in elections, and they're obviously lead by a man who is a fascist, yet funnily enough we don;t see you lot protesting at any of their demos. Now personally i think the BNP are in the grand scheme of things pretty irrelevant aswell and wouldn't want to waste too much of my time combating their pointless dead end shite, but if your going to pick one brand of fascism to protest against, why not another?

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Rob Ray
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Nov 20 2009 11:52

Quick note to the responses, Arthur is explaining himself civilly and doesn't seem to be trolling. We may disagree with some of his politics but show some respect and debate properly, Jason and allibaba in particular stop making assumptions about the guy, how on earth you expect to shift people's viewpoints or learn anything if you come in all guns blazing like that I have no idea.

Arthur, I don't know whether you've had a look round the site or know much about libcom's political outlook, but as is referenced above, most of the people on this site are libertarian communists/anarchists, which implies a number of different things but for the purposes of this conversation, class-struggle internationalism and usually, a dislike of religion in general.

Hence the questions about how the EDL regards things like Orthodox Judaism, hardline Christianity etc and the comments about "Queen and Country" being something we have a problem with - the general view on the forums would be that while the Queen might have a country, the working class certainly doesn't wink.

From what I've read thus far, your group seems to have been fairly incoherent in what it's campaigned for, attacking muslim extremism but having an apparent far-right influence in some of its pronouncements. It has been noticable that overtly fascist elements seem to be hanging around on demos etc but there's been a couple of incidents I've come across of fascists also being knocked about by some EDL members - which is encouraging, but implies that some of you are coming from a very different viewpoint than others?

I guess my question on that level would be whether you think the fascist element has no been eliminated across the EDL or whether there's still some conflict going on within the membership.

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Joseph Kay
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Nov 20 2009 11:56

Arthur, uou won't find any support for the UAF here, and yes they have to share the blame for racialising the situation by telling everyone you're the BNP. Nonetheless, even if we take everything you say at face value - you're not racist, the EDL is multicultural and supports queen and country, this is still a problem.

why? because nationalism contends that working class people have interests in common with their ruling class ('queen and country') that they don't share with foreigners. in reality, a worker here has more in common with a worker in another country than they do with the queen or Richard Branson. in fact their interests have nothing in common.

radical islam is not a problem the state are unaware of, in the wake of 9-11 the security services launced a massive recruitment drive precisely to counter it and Britain and America have declared war on it. groups like Al Mujharoun should be opposed, but on class not nationalist grounds. opposing 'radical islam' through street marches, deliberately or not mirrors the strategy of the National Front in the 1970s, creating nationalist/ethnic street confrontations and thus a receptive environment for the far right to operate in. so even if we take you at your word, the EDL still needs to be opposed (as do Al Mujharoun, christian fundamentalists etc).