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Metal detectors in schools

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Choccy's picture
Choccy
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Jan 21 2008 16:39
Metal detectors in schools

BBC
Metal detectors could be installed at some schools in England as part of a drive to reduce knife crime.

Sounds like the biggest load of shit ever. I don't know the stats on knife-crime amongst teenagers, maybe someone can fill me in, but I daresay "disproportionate" and "draconian" would be understatements. Is anyone working in schools where this is likely to be introduced?

"The comments came in the wake of outcry over the murder of father of two Garry Newlove who was killed by a group of teenagers who had been drinking."

I heard that story in the news - what the fuck does it have to do with schools? Wasn't he stabbed near his home?

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Bob Savage
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Jan 21 2008 16:50

well they just added a 'hooded yoot with knives who terrorise old women and stab people' storyline to eastenders, so the fearmongering's pretty much everywhere.

if a kid wants to stab another kid, it's gonna happen. with a kitchen knife after school, if it has to be done that way. adding metal detectors into schools does NOTHING to stop kids being killed and instead just creates a climate where innercity youth are to be feared and made to know it (which doesn't help mentalities anyway).

seeing footage on the news of five year olds in america being checked for guns made me feel fucking sick. sure, a five year old (well, young boy) did bring a gun into school this one time in america. but that needs to be treated as the exception, not the rule. a society where toddlers are all potential murderers is just gonna breed even more discontent and alienation. and i really do not wanna see the same shit happening over here, it's disgusting.

knightrose
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Jan 21 2008 16:55

I think it's going to happen at my school.

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Choccy
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Jan 21 2008 17:21

It really is disgusting. Is there likely to be any opposition to the measure in your school Knightrose?

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Jan 21 2008 18:24

sorry, i read the title as 'Mental Detectors' and lol'd

embarrassed

Pepe
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Jan 21 2008 18:56

So kids should be allowed to bring knives into school?

This won't really help knife crime, but its not a bad thing.

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Jan 21 2008 19:10

Yes, it is a bad thing. It's absolutely fucking rediculous to create a climate of fear with schoolkids being treated like potential violent criminals.

How many kids do you think bring knives to school Jess?
Oh yeah all those poor estate kids and commoners bring knives and stab each other all the time. I worked in two "typical" London schools (i.e. non selective, 5 GCSE A-C below 40% etc). No kids got stabbed the entire time I was there, and I'd certainly have challenged any moves to treat kids like potential psychopaths.
What the hell sort of school did you go to that you actually think bringing metal-detectors into schools is fair enough?
Was it that school of of that Dangerous Minds film?

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Jan 21 2008 19:10

Bobby
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Jan 21 2008 19:38

i wander where the main teachers union will stand on this issue?

greasy
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Jan 21 2008 19:44

If kids are bring knives to school the question that needs addressing is a bit bigger than how do we keep them from getting the knives in. Surely it's why is our society so fucked up that kids are carrying knives in the first place.

IMHO if the state has the right to bear arms then so should everyone else. But I don't want to live in a violent society where people stab each other to resolve disagreements.

The Us has spent a lot of time and money on stopping the arms race in it's schools. It hasn't worked people get killed there all the time, and if not in the schools then elsewhere. The US is a very fucked up place and the transformation of their society is what's needed, all the rest is just tokenistic and doesn't address the basic problems.

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Jan 21 2008 20:54

There were stabbings at my school and pretty much every time someone had been called in to do it. Hardly anyone actually carried a knife. Metal detectors in schools will not solve any problem and will criminalise youth. There's also the question of how al this is paid for. Looks to me like another tax on 'failing schools' like when you go into special measures and have to pay ofsted to replace your management team.

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Jan 21 2008 23:01

Exactly - it's another "resource" school will have to shell out money they do not have, in order to purchase.

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Jan 21 2008 23:39
Jess wrote:

This won't really help knife crime, but its not a bad thing.

It kinda is, you don;t want an atmosphere where kids are being scanned for knives as if its ''expected'' that they bring them in. Plus it requires higher police presence in schools, and if your a teacher the last thing you want is a load of cops hanging round your classroom, i know my folks genuinely hate doing even PSE lessons with cops in the classroom, and they're hardly crazy anarchists lol, its just anyone with any common sense can see its a bad idea.
As it is you had sniiffer dogs at tube stations near local colleges around where i used to live, and police stop and search kids going to those schools. Not exactly the peak of authoritarianism i grant you but still it all adds up to an unpleasant atmosphere.

straw dog
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Jan 22 2008 10:55
Quote:
Metal detectors in schools will not solve any problem and will criminalise youth

Any statement that includes this phrase is invariably wrong, no matter how factually accurate.

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Jan 22 2008 11:00
straw dog wrote:
Any statement that includes this phrase is invariably wrong, no matter how factually accurate.

please explain, so I know whether you're an idiot or not.

straw dog
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Jan 22 2008 11:06

My original thesis proudly placed itself opposed to rationality, so I feel it remains stronger unexplained.

The only way you could have made it worse is if you'd said it would demonise the youth.

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Jan 22 2008 11:13
straw dog wrote:
My original thesis proudly placed itself opposed to rationality, so I feel it remains stronger unexplained.

fair dos

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Jan 22 2008 11:23
jef costello wrote:
There were stabbings at my school and pretty much every time someone had been called in to do it. Hardly anyone actually carried a knife. Metal detectors in schools will not solve any problem and will criminalise youth. There's also the question of how al this is paid for. Looks to me like another tax on 'failing schools' like when you go into special measures and have to pay ofsted to replace your management team.

excellent post.

Yes, there is a lot of knife crime. But generally it is not committed by people who get into fights then suddenly remeber they have a knife: it is by people who plan to use the knife for a certain reason. Very very very few stabbings happen in school. And if they do they happen in school grounds, not in the buildings. Which is why on site cops sit *outside* the school when they are on duty.

The point about knife crime is being totally ignored by the mainstream media; it goes far deeper than gun crime. There ia actually an argument that guns are the problem themselves , and the groups that use and distribute guns can be isolated. Knives are totally different. Anyone can get the hands on something to stab someone with, its all about intent. It won't be met by any sort of extra security measures, from bobbies on the beat, to tv spots, to metal detectors. You have to actually stop people from wanting to stab each other, and that is not a police issue.

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Jan 22 2008 11:25
straw dog wrote:
My original thesis proudly placed itself opposed to rationality, so I feel it remains stronger unexplained.

The only way you could have made it worse is if you'd said it would demonise the youth.

so...

you are saying 'yes i am an idiot'? I'm not flaming here, i'm just puzzled.

...are you lem?

Vaneigemappreci...
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Jan 22 2008 11:36
Quote:
xconor
it's another "resource" school will have to shell out money they do not have, in order to purchase.

True. When i was at school about 6-7 years ago they had started to erect a large metal fence around the scool perimeter and had installed CCTV in the school grounds. This was happening when the school was unable to provide us with text books and we were having to do A level work by sharing books between 2-3 people, so when someone was off ill and had the book we couldnt actually do any work.

Installing metal detectors won't stop the roots of the violence, let alone the violence. There used to be big dust ups at our school between our lot and kids from another school who'd bring pool balls in socks and bricks to fights. As far as i'm aware a pool ball won't show up on a metal detector, perhaps the kids should be searched before lessons?

straw dog
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Jan 22 2008 12:13
Quote:
so...

you are saying 'yes i am an idiot'? I'm not flaming here, i'm just puzzled.

...are you lem?

You do realise that every time you try and fit in, and be one of the lads, it just makes everyone contempt you all over again, right? Not just here. Everywhere like.

Just checking.

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Jan 22 2008 12:13

having worked for many years in the site office (place where everyone who is not a teacher is organised from) of a large and sometimes sketchy comp, i'll point out the cameras are almost nver used to identify serious offenders, but just used to spy on kids and make sure they are in their lessons not in the corridors. Or if you have some dumbshit rule, like kids must be outside at break, then to check they aren't in the corridors then. If a kid says 'i was on my way to...' and a teacher doesn't believe them, they will look through the record and see where the kid was at what time.

All the concerns raised about cameras were correct, at my workplace at least.

We also used them to follow sexy NQT's - and they had a zoom function embarrassed

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Jan 22 2008 12:45
Tacks wrote:
We also used them to follow sexy NQT's - and they had a zoom function embarrassed

I was the ONLY trainee in my school in Greenwich and there were like two NQTs, one of whom got punched in the face at the end of spring term by a psycho, she was really sound too so i can't even imagine she was being a dick to him, not that that would excuse it anyway.

knightrose
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Jan 22 2008 13:00

Apparently we already have a couple of hand held ones in school. The reason is because one kid was stabbed, though not seriously, and some of the muppets who think they are hard were caught trying to nick stuff from CDT for a fight with another school.
Frankly I can't see them being used. I suspect they exist as a "deterrent". They'll be stuck in someone's ofice and will gather dust. I can't see anyone opposing them.
We also have CCTV. It is used to check kids are in lessons, it has also been used to sort out who assaulted who. Strangely, I've never used it to look at cute NQTs.
Regarding the fences, I actually like them. We hada huge prob;lem in the past with nutters on motor bikes coming in and riding them around - sometimes into groups of children. The fences don't stop truancy, there's always a way out smile But it's difficult to drive a bike or car through woodland.

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Jan 22 2008 17:35
Tacks wrote:
The point about knife crime is being totally ignored by the mainstream media; it goes far deeper than gun crime. There ia actually an argument that guns are the problem themselves , and the groups that use and distribute guns can be isolated. Knives are totally different. Anyone can get the hands on something to stab someone with, its all about intent. It won't be met by any sort of extra security measures, from bobbies on the beat, to tv spots, to metal detectors. You have to actually stop people from wanting to stab each other, and that is not a police issue.

exactly, we used to nick the pole from clamp stands if we thought there would be a row. Never ended up using them.

Quote:
True. When i was at school about 6-7 years ago they had started to erect a large metal fence around the scool perimeter and had installed CCTV in the school grounds.

I was mostly on favour of this, if there was a fight they closed the gates and that way people couldn't get in or out, definitely stopped a few people getting hurt. It meant when all the wankers showed up with weapons they couldn't get in.

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Jan 22 2008 18:26

jef and tacks in 'great minds...' moment shocker! eek

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Jan 22 2008 18:28
knightrose wrote:
We also have CCTV. It is used to check kids are in lessons, it has also been used to sort out who assaulted who. Strangely, I've never used it to look at cute NQTs. I can just ogle them in the staff room or in the pub after work. Mmmmm. Yeah.

fix'd smile

knightrose
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Jan 22 2008 19:57

Right that's you done for Tacks. Vile "spoofs" of my posts. Just you wait .... I'll phone your parents for starters.

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Jan 22 2008 20:01
knightrose wrote:
Right that's you done for Tacks. Vile "spoofs" of my posts. Just you wait .... I'll phone your parents for starters.

it was more of a smear aimed at discrediting the anarchist movement than a spoof, now that i look at it again... wink

knightrose
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Jan 23 2008 15:54

I demand that you retract it smile

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Jan 24 2008 12:30

my school has a few hand held metal detectors, cctv, and the usual fences but we manage to break the fence when we want out, use non metal weopons and ignore the cctv as if its not there. If I wanted to get a weopon to stab somebody in my school I'd go to the tech department and get an assortment of sharp and dangerous weopons which would have thousands of fingerprints on them, I'd never bother to bring in a knife intentional, the police search me everyother day on my way into school anyway.