Standoff in Nevada

51 posts / 0 new
Last post
teh
Offline
Joined: 15-06-09
May 7 2014 01:45
Entdinglichung wrote:
http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/horsford-tells-sheriff-sandoval-move-m...

Quote:
Horsford said another man called Bundy a “welfare rancher” who’s living off taxpayer subsidies while getting rich by running cattle on public land.

Quote:
Horsford, D-Nev., said he spent the morning attending a mayor’s pancake breakfast in Mesquite, which is part of his 4th Congressional District. He said he was approached by residents, including a fifth-grader, who asked him, “What are you going to do to get the militia out?” of the area.

He said the girl also asked him why Bundy refused to pay his grazing fees to the Bureau of Land Management, which attempted to round up his cattle before halting the operation April 12 to avoid violence.

“She said, ‘He should just do what everybody else does and pay his share,’” Horsford said, telling the story to the Clark County Democratic Party convention at the Tropicana.

That's batshit. These endless soap operas and good cop bad cop routines between the two parties are so unbearable. They fulfill the totality of what supposed to be politics in american media and life.

teh
Offline
Joined: 15-06-09
May 7 2014 02:01
Chilli Sauce wrote:
Quote:

At the bottom of the story, there is gallery of pictures. The first one has a collection of placards. One of those placards has a quote from an old Woody Guthrie song, "This Land is Your Land".

Woodie (who was a Wobbly) would be rolling in his grave.

You know who else tried to use that as a campaign song? George W. effin' Bush.

But I agree, it's painful. The apparently unconscious co-optation of a socialist anthem. I mean, Jesus, just listen to the lyrics!

I think American nationalism and militarism are entirely reconcilable with Woodies Popular Front Stalinism (and I say this as a big Guthrie fan). He avidly wrote songs and performed for the army during the world war after all. Not sure but I think when I was in 4th grade in American school in the late 90's the school gave me a binder with excerpted This Land lyrics written alongside the American national anthem on the inside cover.

There's pretty decent movie by anarchyist director Oshima called Sing a Song of Sex where This Land is Your Land is awesomely lampooned at poignant moment.

Entdinglichung's picture
Entdinglichung
Offline
Joined: 2-07-08
May 7 2014 16:15

American populism is a strange animal

teh
Offline
Joined: 15-06-09
May 7 2014 18:31
Entdinglichung wrote:
American populism is a strange animal

That's all they got. America is a very closed society.

ocelot's picture
ocelot
Offline
Joined: 15-11-09
May 8 2014 10:57
teh wrote:
Entdinglichung wrote:
American populism is a strange animal

That's all they got. America is a very closed society.

But it's also a society with it's own distinct history, which I think Europeans tend to discount too easily. The knee-jerk eurocentric view is to view Americans as basically failed Europeans who don't "get it" - i.e. viewing American political difference as just "weirdness" without a (materialist) historical development of its own.

There are elements of American populism that go back to Jeffersonian and Jacksonian "anti-bourgeois" political traditions of agrarian civic democracy based on a petit bourgeois "all land to the peasants" yeoman farmer civic democracy that was explicitly hostile to banks, finance, industrial development, cities and an urban wage-slave proletariat. Of course the other side of that coin is a racist settler ideology of territorial expansion (manifest destiny) and accommodation with, if not outright enthusiasm for, slavery. But that settler/extension developmental model of politics held sway over the bourgeois/intensification model in the US from its foundation to at least the Civil War - when the opposing industrial/financial bourgeoisie finally gained the upper hand. But gaining the upper hand does not necessarily mean entirely wiping out the opposition or its lingering ideas.

Of course nowadays the epigones of the losing tendency are reduced to a "golden age"-nostalgic rump and the original latent anti-capitalist elements are now completely submerged and substituted by hysterical and apocalyptic conspiranoid lunacy, but to some degree that's inevitable considering how obsolete that tendency is in terms of forming a viable programme for US capital's development.

Entdinglichung's picture
Entdinglichung
Offline
Joined: 2-07-08
May 8 2014 11:14

a good book on this contradictory topic is Agrarian Socialism in America: Marx, Jefferson, and Jesus in the Oklahoma Countryside, 1904-1920 by Jim Bissett

cresspot's picture
cresspot
Offline
Joined: 8-09-13
May 10 2014 05:15
teh wrote:
Entdinglichung wrote:
American populism is a strange animal

That's all they got. America is a very closed society.

No we got hip hop

teh
Offline
Joined: 15-06-09
May 10 2014 19:41
cresspot wrote:
teh wrote:
Entdinglichung wrote:
American populism is a strange animal

That's all they got. America is a very closed society.

No we got hip hop

I think hip hop has the same Mom'N'Pop businessmen "get the man off our back" populist ethos that punk and Bundy have. From the "underground" musicians and the entrepreneur ideal to White House darlings like Jay-z who when asked why he had the face of the former President of the National Bank of Cuba Guevara on his shirt said that like the former hes "a revolutionary" because he became a 'millionaire in a racist society.' So petty bourgeois aspiration basically. Most hip hop artists don't become business owners but that's the goal-'alternative' or 'major'- by people originally marginalized in the economy (though yuppies like Kanye West hitch the ride).

boozemonarchy's picture
boozemonarchy
Offline
Joined: 28-12-06
May 10 2014 23:46

I guess Bundy supporters are going to go tear-up some archaeological sites with their ATV's in a show of force and defiance of the fed gov'mint.

OliverTwister's picture
OliverTwister
Offline
Joined: 10-10-05
May 11 2014 05:15
teh wrote:
cresspot wrote:
teh wrote:
Entdinglichung wrote:
American populism is a strange animal

That's all they got. America is a very closed society.

No we got hip hop

I think hip hop has the same Mom'N'Pop businessmen "get the man off our back" populist ethos that punk and Bundy have. From the "underground" musicians and the entrepreneur ideal to White House darlings like Jay-z who when asked why he had the face of the former President of the National Bank of Cuba Guevara on his shirt said that like the former hes "a revolutionary" because he became a 'millionaire in a racist society.' So petty bourgeois aspiration basically. Most hip hop artists don't become business owners but that's the goal-'alternative' or 'major'- by people originally marginalized in the economy (though yuppies like Kanye West hitch the ride).

Yeah black culture is so fucked up.

Fnordie's picture
Fnordie
Offline
Joined: 6-02-07
May 11 2014 05:28
OliverTwister wrote:
black culture is so fucked up.

What now?

OliverTwister's picture
OliverTwister
Offline
Joined: 10-10-05
May 11 2014 12:25

I was just agreeing with Teh's critique of Hip Hop's petty bourgeois ethos

Soapy's picture
Soapy
Offline
Joined: 30-05-10
May 11 2014 12:59

Preemptive dont derail pls

teh
Offline
Joined: 15-06-09
May 16 2014 09:03
Soapy wrote:
Preemptive dont derail pls

oh so i cant respond to this. sheesh

Khawaga's picture
Khawaga
Offline
Joined: 7-08-06
May 16 2014 14:33

Just start a new topic/thread.

Entdinglichung's picture
Entdinglichung
Offline
Joined: 2-07-08
May 16 2014 15:46
jonthom's picture
jonthom
Offline
Joined: 25-11-10
Jun 10 2014 01:39

Breaking: Vegas Mass-Shooters Were Bundy Ranch Tea Party TERRORISTS! (Video)

Quote:
“This is the start of a revolution,” the shooters yelled as they opened fire on Las Vegas Metro police officers Alyn Beck and Igor Soldo inside a Las Vegas Cici’s Pizza–and it appears the revolution of which the couple spoke is the exact one that has been promised by the ‘nonviolent patriots’ at the Bundy Ranch.
Cliven Bundy’s supporters are currently being investigated for bomb threats, making menacing statements toward government officials, and pointing weapons at and threatening police. Now, it seems, the government’s failure to do something about these violent, unstable terrorists has reached the next step: actual murder.
The shooters reportedly draped the familiar symbol of the Tea Party and other extremist right-wing groups–the bright yellow “Don’t Tread on Me” Gadsden flag–over their victims’ bodies. Among the couple’s belongings, police found swastika symbols. Neighbors have explained that the couple may have been methamphetamine users, and regularly spoke of conspiracy theories–and their plans to kill police officers.
One neighbor said the man claimed that he and his partner-in-crime had been kicked off of Bundy Ranch. “The man told Monroe he had been kicked off Cliven Bundy’s ranch 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas while people from throughout the U.S. gathered there in protest of a Bureau of Land Management roundup of Bundy’s cattle,” neighbor Jessica Anderson said.

edit: The Chilling Anti-Government, Cliven Bundy-Loving Facebook Posts of the Alleged Las Vegas Shooters

(apologies for the liberal links, not found much of more substance thus far.)

Entdinglichung's picture
Entdinglichung
Offline
Joined: 2-07-08
Jun 20 2014 13:56

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/carbon-county-utah-resolution-blm

Quote:

A Utah county passed a resolution this month asserting that the authority of federal agents, specifically those of the Bureau of Land Management, to enforce state or local laws -- even on federal land -- would not be recognized within its borders.

The Carbon County Commission approved the resolution unanimously on June 4.

"Any such attempted exercise of law enforcement powers by an official of a land management agency IS NOT RECOGNIZED by Carbon County," the resolution stated (caps in original), "and shall be deemed AN IMMINENT THREAT TO THE HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE OF THE CITIZENS OF CARBON COUNTY."

In prefacing its case, the commission concluded "that Carbon County does not recognize any attempt by a federal official to try to enforce state or local criminal or civil laws on any lands in Carbon County, including any BLM or Forest Service lands."

The resolution also demanded that any federal agent intending to take a law enforcement action "shall first declare his presence and intended action to the Sheriff of Carbon County."

Entdinglichung's picture
Entdinglichung
Offline
Joined: 2-07-08
Aug 5 2014 21:01

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2014/08/05/nevada-rancher-says-confrontati...

Quote:
“If the standoff with the Bundys was wrong, would the Lord have been with us?’’ Bundy told the gathering, according to The Spectrum. “Could those people that stood without fear and went through that spiritual experience … have done that without the Lord being there? No they couldn’t.”

Entdinglichung's picture
Entdinglichung
Offline
Joined: 2-07-08
Nov 29 2018 16:46

four years later: https://www.newsweek.com/right-wing-militia-leader-blasts-trump-migrant-...

Quote:
An anti-government militia leader who has led armed standoffs against the government lashed out at President Donald Trump for his rhetoric about immigrants.

"He has basically called them all criminals and said they’re not coming in here. It seems that there’s been this group stereotype," Ammon Bundy said in a 17-minute video published on Facebook. "But what about those who have come here for reasons of need?... What about the fathers, the mothers, the children, who have come here and are willing to go through the process to apply for asylum so they can come into this country and benefit from not having to be oppressed continually by criminals?

"It’s all fear-based, and frankly it’s based upon selfishness—‘I’m going to lose something by them coming in,'" he said of anti-immigrant statements. "I think that’s incorrect. But also to base your arguments or your motives or your actions upon fear is a very dangerous thing to do."

He said his sentiments were motivated by the duty of citizens in the U.S., which he called a "Christian nation."

"I have been frankly surprised, disappointed and even at times disgusted [by] the amount of people who profess to be Christians but will not truly adhere to what Christ said," he said.