Toby Young gets it really, really wrong about anarchism and Thatcher in the Telegraph

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Apr 12 2013 10:11
Toby Young gets it really, really wrong about anarchism and Thatcher in the Telegraph

This is a fucking terrible article. I didn't expect much but it turned out to be even worse than I thought it would be.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100211668/anarchists-should-be-mourning-margaret-thatchers-death-not-celebrating-she-did-more-to-roll-back-the-frontiers-of-the-state-than-any-other-british-prime-minister/

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Apr 12 2013 16:00

Dammnit, I wanted to see the comments for the lols but they've closed them.

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Apr 12 2013 18:34

What a fucking idiot

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Apr 12 2013 18:50

Yeah, that's pretty fucking amazing.

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Apr 12 2013 19:04

The bit about her being a classical liberal seems a bit ironic too. Didn't Adam Smith warn of the devastating impact on the British working class if manufacturing operations were moved abroad? I'm not that familiar with his writings.

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Apr 12 2013 20:17

and the state financed him a school

Agent of the International's picture
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Apr 12 2013 20:30

"But as someone who still sets some store by the ideas of Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Pierre-Joseph Proudhon and Mikhail Bakunin, I will be raising a glass to Lady Thatcher on Saturday, not joining this infantile "protest"." -Toby Young

What the heck is he trying to say, that he's influenced by Bakunin?

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Apr 12 2013 20:43
Agent of the Fifth International wrote:
"But as someone who still sets some store by the ideas of Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Pierre-Joseph Proudhon and Mikhail Bakunin, I will be raising a glass to Lady Thatcher on Saturday, not joining this infantile "protest"." -Toby Young

What the heck is he trying to say, that he's influenced by Bakunin?

I guess he can't actually read

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Apr 12 2013 21:11
Agent of the Fifth International wrote:
"But as someone who still sets some store by the ideas of Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Pierre-Joseph Proudhon and Mikhail Bakunin, I will be raising a glass to Lady Thatcher on Saturday, not joining this infantile "protest"." -Toby Young

What the heck is he trying to say, that he's influenced by Bakunin?

Yeah, that pissed me off/blew my mind as well.

If I was unemployed and super motivated I'd write a response to this. I doubt it'd ever get into the letters column of the paper, but i would certainly encourage libcommers to spam the fuck out of Toby's Young's inbox with it.

Just sayin'.

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Apr 12 2013 21:22

Also "I suppose it's not surprising that the leaders[my italics] of Black Bloc and Class War have so little grasp of the philosophy they claim to be inspired by."

The guy isn't even coherent enough to be wrong. He's just mashing together words.

Toby Young if you google yourself and come across this: anarchism is quite interesting, you may enjoy learning about it (pro-tip: Johnny Rotten is not and never has been an anarchist).

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Apr 12 2013 21:29
RedEd wrote:
Also "I suppose it's not surprising that the leaders[my italics] of Black Bloc and Class War have so little grasp of the philosophy they claim to be inspired by."

The guy isn't even coherent enough to be wrong. He's just mashing together words.

Toby Young if you google yourself and come across this: anarchism is quite interesting, you may enjoy learning about it (pro-tip: Johnny Rotten is not and never has been an anarchist).

I think that's being a bit hopeful. I mean he actually thinks that Black Bloc and Class War are actual groups!

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Apr 12 2013 23:30

You can comment on his website.

http://www.nosacredcows.co.uk/blog/comments/2181/anarchists_should_be_mo...

NannerNannerNan...
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Apr 13 2013 01:04

This man has never touched a book in his miserable life and doesn't plan on deviating from that. I am convinced it's either that or Steven's right and he just doesn't know how to.

Despite his incredible stupidness, I think I'm more concerned with how fucking callous this reprobate is. If "rolling back the state" entails the destruction of communities, societies, and of the weak in general than I'd say anyone who wishes to do so's a fucking sociopath. Of course he thinks we're "infantile", this glorious nietszchean is beyond this thing called "morality"!

Then again, the reality of liberalism is that it's midwifed with a centralization of state power and that government spending in Britain has been at near-constant levels since the postwar settlement (probably spending even more!), so his philosophical convictions really doesn't go beyond "more money for me" and "fuck you plebe". Really, "big government" is a government that encroaches on the powerful's right to exploit the weak, and that government which is small enough for their tastes is the one that's able to put down the rabble should they get too uppity.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that if Toby died a horrible death far before his time I'd be pretty happy about it

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Apr 14 2013 15:17

That was a great rant Nanner.

Spiorad Saor
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Apr 23 2013 03:43

Okay i am late on this but after reading that i just have to rant about it. This is perhaps the stupidest article i have ever read and that is saying something! Is this guy actually serious or is he taking the piss because this reads like a article from the Onion. So this guy embraced Thatcherism because he was a fan of the Sex Pistols and had a A on the back of his leather jacket he was somehow a Anarchist as a teen? No he was just another dumb teenager who had no clue about the ideology that they saw as being cool. Yes Thatcher was a great help to the working class and in helping dismantle the class system alright. By making so many of the working class unemployed that they could hardly be called the working class anymore as they where so bad off one would almost have to invent another class just for that era!

It's obvious this complete moron knows nothing about Anarchist theory or political theory of any kind at all. I don't know who the fuck he is but i know he's a moron. Also how dare he mention Rousseau in the same sentence as Thatcher! Privatizing the public sector, deregulating the financial sector, advocating free trade and gutting the welfare system all to fill your pockets and the pockets of your fellow cronies is not smashing the state and heading towards Anarchism. That is good old Neo-liberalism not Anarchism which should be obvious to even the most dull witted Neo-Conservative. Anarchism is anti-private property and anti-statist. Thatcher used the brute force of the state to deregulate the banks and the rest of the financial sector, privatize much of the nationalized services and use the police which are the first line of oppression in any good authoritarian state to break up strikes such as the Welsh miners strike with violence against their own civilians which had not been seen in recent history.

That bears absolutely no resemblance to Anarchist Communism, Anarchist Syndicalism or any other major Anarchist school of thought. In fact it looks more like fascism then anything else. And fuck Johnny Rotten (and since when did he become a theorist on Anarchist philosophy?) to for supporting that witch. I always much prefered The Clash any day over the Sex Pistols who i think are very overrated

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Apr 23 2013 07:46

One minor point: the miners' strike was UK wide, it wasn't just Welsh miners.

Also, Joseph Kay wrote a useful blog on this very topic which is a good response to anyone who makes this argument:
http://libcom.org/blog/%E2%80%98anarchists-are-tories%E2%80%99-other-fai...

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Apr 23 2013 21:17

Though obviously not an anarchist his dad should still have drowned the little fuck at birth.

omen
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Apr 24 2013 09:12
Quote:
I don't know who the fuck he is but i know he's a moron.

I saw that film without making the connection that Sidney Young = Toby Young at the time. Pegg portrays him as a loveable rogue, and I don't think that "Sidney" says anything political in the film at all, and if anything is portrayed as a rebel rather than a reactionary.