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Wild-Cat Strike of Illigal Imigrants in Israel.

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meerov21
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Jan 9 2014 21:38
Wild-Cat Strike of Illigal Imigrants in Israel.

Tens of thousands of workers from Sudan and Eritrea announced an open-ended strike in Israel. They demand better working conditions and also require refugee status. Since there is no legal trade union, and all the strikers outside the law, they use radical methods. Strikers attack strike-breakers, causing them to stop work. This is the first major revolt of migrant workers in Israel. The strike has already led to serious problems in the economy. Difficulties have hospitals, restaurants, service. Garbage heaps grow up on the streets in some cities.

Israeli media said that organizing the riots are guilty of "foreign powers". The demonstrators demanded to give a possibility of eight delegates to meet with the deputies of Michal Rosen (MERETZ) and Dov Hanin (HADASH). However, speaker Yuli Edelstein at the request of the Deputy Miri Regev (Likud) denied the request, arguing that the emergence of Africans in the Knesset may lead to violence! Also israeli fascist Mordechai Zaretsky attacked a little girl from a family of african refugees and seriously wounded her.

Self-organized struggle of african workers reflects few things. First: workers can perfectly do without legal trade-unions. Moreover: only this is the real path. None of the modern trade-unions (including syndicalists) support physical attacks against strike-breakers. Second: powerful resistance of migrant workers can be a model. Tens of millions of illegal migrants employed in the economy of various countries. If such a struggle will continue we will see gigantic new workers movement without trade unions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tMSCPyl9wvQ

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Jan 9 2014 22:38
meerov21 wrote:
None of the modern trade-unions (including syndicalists) support physical attacks against strike-breakers

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Jan 9 2014 22:26

But how does this contribute to the liberation of Palestine from the Zionists?

meerov21
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Jan 10 2014 11:07

AES - i did not understand spanish.
Even if modern FORA realy support violent attacks against strike-breakers and/or bosses and realy partisipate in it (i have never heard about it) and not just draw pictures even then this example is unique for so-called modern "syndicalism". I would like to add that FORA (at least in the beginning of the twentieth century) criticized syndicalism and called itself an "anarchist workes organization": you can read the work Emilio Lopez Arango.

meerov21
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Jan 10 2014 10:44
Tyrion wrote:
But how does this contribute to the liberation of Palestine from the Zionists?

Tyrion i don't know. I can just say such thing disrupt zionist regime or his authority in the world.

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Chilli Sauce
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Jan 10 2014 11:09
Quote:
None of the modern trade-unions (including syndicalists) support physical attacks against strike-breakers.

Meerov, you have a weird hang-up with syndicalists.

I don't think anyone on here disagrees with your critiques of trade unionism, but when it comes syndicalism or anarcho-syndicalism you seem to have a habit of conflating intentions with numbers.

"Oh, syndicalists don't fight scabs, oh syndicalists got beat up by the police - see, they're just like all trade unionists..." No, when you're absolute minority in a workplace and within the wider working class, your ability to undertake that sort of militant action is pretty damn limited. However, in the abstract, of course syndicalists support physical confrontation with scabs. And, given the numbers and power to do so, I have no doubt that would become a reality.

And, just to put a bit more meat on the bones of this argument and to name-drop another one of your favorite subjects, during one of the last general strikes in Spain, there were stories of CNT members going around after midnight enforcing the strike - physically shutting down bars and restaurants that were trying to defy the strike. So there you go.

In any case, if I'm being perfectly honest, your bizarre ideological obsession with syndicalism does get a bit tiresome.

meerov21
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Jan 10 2014 13:11

"However, in the abstract, of course syndicalists support physical confrontation with scabs. And, given the numbers and power to do so, I have no doubt that would become a reality".

With whome? CNT - Espaniol have thousends of people and it is not small. But they excluded participants of Huventudas Libertarias who supported some radical action and they deeply involved into legal process for some propety so i don't think they confrontation "would become a reality"

"there were stories of CNT members going around after midnight enforcing the strike - physically shutting down bars and restaurants that were trying to defy the strike".

Even if some small groopes of minority can do it (as some Huventudas Libertarias in the past) they are integrated into reformist trade-union named CNT and they future is sad if they don't split with reformist majority of CNT and with the the practice of courts and collective agreements with bosses.

"In any case, if I'm being perfectly honest, your bizarre ideological obsession with syndicalism does get a bit tiresome".

I hope you would not be astonished then i say i don't care about your feelings.

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Jan 10 2014 13:14

Well, for someone who basically only posts on one subject and does so in a generally quite provocative way, you do certainly seem to care about "feelings".

Anyway, just for your information:

Population of Spain: 46.5 million
Estimate trade union membership in Spain: 3 million
Estimated 2010 membership of the CNT: 10,000 (although, honestly, I think it could be lower now)

Now, given these figures, I think my point about numbers still stands. And, where the CNT has density - I believe in was in Barcelona where they went around enforcing the general strike - it would certainly seem they are willing to use the tactics you claim syndicalist are too afraid to use.

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Jan 10 2014 14:03

Violence is not a principle, it is a tactic - which is not necessarily founded on class analysis, and violence is not necessarily revolutionary. It is often likely to create an elitist and hierarchical minority separate from workers and the unwaged in direct struggle with capitalism and the state.

meerov21
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Jan 10 2014 15:02

Well, for someone who basically only posts on one subject and does so in a generally quite provocative way, you do certainly seem to care about "feelings".

Oh!... Are you "mister owner of Libcom" and threatening me "anarcho-syndicalist" censorship?
...Who knows me be even your physical existence is a sort provocation? But i can talk with you as with a human if you stop this impudent provocative style of speech.

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Jan 10 2014 15:08
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Oh!... Are you "mister owner of Libcom" and threatening me "anarcho-syndicalist" censorship?

Definitely my favorite libcom post of 2014 so far.

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Jan 10 2014 15:15

Maybe something for meerov21 to read http://libcom.org/library/workers-violence-doesnt-always-mean-workers-au...

meerov21
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Jan 10 2014 19:11

Violence... is not necessarily revolutionary.

AES i agree. I just wrote simple things. "None of the modern trade-unions (including syndicalists) support physical attacks against strike-breakers". Isn't THIS kind of violence revolutionary?
Even if there are few small example of such violence of modern syndicalists it is very atypical for them. Look at the modern wild-cat strikes. South Africa miners strikes at Maricana and uprising of spainish miners in Asturia in 2013, fighting of vietnamys workers against violent conduct of private security guards in 2014 or this modern israely wild-cat of illigal workers.
http://www.libcom.org/news/clashes-samsung-factory-vietnam-09012014
http://www.libcom.org/forums/theory/need-rise-against-trade-unions-19082...
All this violence is revolutionary or at list reflects radical trends in the class conflict. All this violence is against bosses, police, strike-breakers (somtimes from strike-breakers from moderate unions) and against security guards. In each of these conflicts involved from several thousand to tens of thousands of workers (you can
compared with the number of participants of modern CNT (10,000 ) or italian USY (2,000)).
Isn't that clear that modern wild-cat strikes is the most powerful manifestations of class antagonism? This is what my text about. Sorry but i don't understand what do you argue with?

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Jan 10 2014 19:14
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Isn't that clear that modern wild-cat strikes is the most powerful manifestations of class antagonism?

Sure, then why keep going on about syndicalists?

Quote:
This is what my text about.

Again, if that's so, why drop in the line about syndicalist in your OP?

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number of participants of modern CNT (10,000 )

Yes, in an ENTIRE country, not a small locality.

Again, where they do have the density, they are taking the sort of action you seem to continually claim they don't take, despite evidence to the contrary being presented to you.

And, let's be honest, there have been very few widespread modern syndicalist strikes. Once they start happening and the unions attempt to suppress effective strikebreaking activities, they you can go on about the timidity of modern syndicalism. In the absence of any reasonable examples, however, you're basically talking rubbish.

meerov21
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Jan 10 2014 19:29

I woulde like to add that old IWW or CNT have nothing common with modern IWW or enything like modern "anarcho-syndicalism". They were radical fighters who initiate wild-cat illigal violent strikes. They deny collective not-strike agreements with bosses and killing cops. We can be very critical about revolutionary syndicalism of the past but we shood not forget what was it. If we want to understend what was Real IWW in 1910-1920 we shood look at the modern workers uprisings in South Afrika or Israel.

meerov21
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Jan 10 2014 20:06

"where the CNT has density - I believe in was in Barcelona where they went around enforcing the general strike - it would certainly seem they are willing to use the tactics you claim syndicalist are too afraid to use".

Where is an opend information about that? What did they do exactly? And even if it is truth as i said modern wild-cat strikes is the most powerful manifestations of class antagonism and that was the main point of my text.

you're basically talking rubbish.

Nice, nice stile of talks tongue

meerov21
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Jan 10 2014 20:06

"No, when you're absolute minority in a workplace and within the wider working class, your ability to undertake that sort of militant action is pretty damn limited".

Sure. Especially if you (as modern CNT) are using a trial during strikes like other trade-unions and expel radical elements (Hoventudas libertarias) like tham.
Anyway the form you express you opinion in this discussion ("you're basically talking rubbish") is very impressive. This is a typical manifestation of the inability to find arguments
As for my post it was not in general about syndicalism. But i will talk about it if i want even if you commit suicide or sue me. smile

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Jan 10 2014 20:31

meerov, if you agree that violence is not a principle, but is a tactic (which can often be harmful to class struggle) then why do you continue to defend violence in itself as if it is a principle. You have a macho fixation on violence that I don't share.

I am an anarcho-syndicalist from South Africa and I have experienced plenty violence in my life. I don't miss those bitter and violent fights. You seem to be an anti-organisationalist.

In a distribution factory in South Africa - 2½ years before I started the job, there who was an organiser who was not a "revolutionary" but simply a trade unionist - he and other workmates made a motion in the workers committee to block traffic between Johannesburg city and Pretoria city as a protest against deaths caused to exhausted drivers on low wages falling asleep behind the wheel - for his efforts he was burnt alive with his child in his home, probably by bosses thugs (maybe Inkatha). I started the job during apartheid, and I was involved in the formation of a workers assembly which included all workers (union members and non-union members, and which opposed apartheid segregation) and excluded anyone involved in the disciplinary process. The model we used was taken directly from Direct Action Movement IWA (the anarcho-syndicalist organisation preceeding Solidarity Federation IWA). Within a few months after the formation of our workers assembly, and because of our method of our militant method of class organisation the company relocated the entire factory 35 miles north in Pretoria city.

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Jan 10 2014 21:05

Obviously in South Africa, I've also been active in fights against racists. One of my friends called Andre was beaten with a cricket bat by a racist which caused him to be permanently vegetated, he is still being looked after. Shortly after that, with people connected to the previous fight, we intervened in a situation where a couple of gay goths were being harrassed by racist skinheads, so I had a quart bottle broken in my face by racists but in that fight we hospitalised three of them. We knew they were armed with handguns but we attacked them anyway. They collected their friends and groups to returned a few weeks later in the centre of Johannesburg city at a flee market - as they approached us, two young men and three women, in their normal macho manner they pulled out pickaxe handles, baseball bats and racist flags - we stood there as a minibus taxi stopped between us and them and the beat four of them senseless even smashing their heads against the minibus, later the same night their friends and groups returned, in the fight that took place a racist was killed.

Violence happens and we move on, but it is not necessarily revolutionary. Anyone who thinks that violence is a revolutionary principle is an idiot.

meerov21
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Jan 10 2014 21:31

meerov, if you agree that violence is not a principle, but is a tactic (which can often be harmful to class struggle) then why do you continue to defend violence in itself as if it is a principle.

I agree only with you sentanse "Violence... is not necessarily revolutionary".
But it is not just tactic. Violence against straike-breakers and bosses is a revolutionary thing. It is an importent indicator of class consciousness. It is an indicator of trand from the class negotiations to the class war.
Of course this is not a single condition for revolutionary change of consciousness. Another point is self-organisation. Assembly, council... But this is also part of many of wild-cats.
In any case violence against straike-breakers and bosses is very important.

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Jan 10 2014 21:40

I've been on a picket line during a wildcat strike in Durban when a worker shot a scab in the head - he died immediately - tell me how that is revolutionary?

meerov21
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Jan 10 2014 21:42

You have a macho fixation

Unfortunately not. I am impulsive irresolute intellectual wink)

meerov21
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Jan 10 2014 21:47

You seem to be an anti-organisationalist.

Not at all. I am for workers councils organisation.

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Jan 10 2014 21:53

You seem to have no direct experience of your own to speak of and you are not active in building any organisation to speak of which can be tested. You have a fixation and clearly you have grandeous illusions about advocating violence.

On the CNT-AIT, during the Franco dictatorship was pressured to take up armed struggle/ guerrila warfare and to abandon worker assemblies and revolutionary syndicalism. CNT decided to stand firmly for class consciousness against the vanguardist elitism. There were anarcho-syndicalist maquis like Quico Sabate and Caracemada and many more - who did not abandon class war.

meerov21
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Jan 10 2014 21:57

I've been on a picket line during a wildcat strike in Durban when a worker shot a scab in the head - he died immediately

Sorry i don't understend. Do you mean that worker shot strikebreaker and this strikebreaker was killed? If yes the death of strikebreaker is a wonderful thing. What is wrong about that?
Some of my friends was at the big strike. There were 2,000 union workers. They were afraid of violense. Strikebreaker came to the factory and start work and unionists have been just... watching. They lost a strike.
Death of strikebreaker is a cause for celebration.

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Jan 11 2014 01:36
meerov21 wrote:
Death of strikebreaker is a cause for celebration.

That is just ignorance, this scenario has happened countless times before - after the shooting of the scab the workers were so severely repressed in that dispute that they were unable to organise in any meaningful way for several years.

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Jan 10 2014 22:03

I was working as an apprentice toolsetter in a factory district called Wadeville, with a reputation for worker militancy and industrial action. While in that job, in 1993, I was an eye-witness to the Wadeville Massacre -

Quote:
ANC STATEMENT ON THE WADEVILLE KILLINGS
23 people were killed and another 25 wounded in two separate incidents of violence on the East Rand or Wednesday 8 September. The incidents occured at Wadeville and Katlehong.
Initial reports to the ANC indicate the following: According to eye-witnesses interviewed at Natalspruit hospital the first attack took place at 17h30 at a taxi rank on the corner of Dekema and Lantern streets in Wadeville.
The attack was preceded by a major security force operation in the area. The witnesses allege that Police were out in full force patrolling the area both in mechanised transport and on foot.
It could not be ascertained whether the security forces had prior knowledge of the impending attack or were simply keeping an eye on workers in the area who have embarked on industrial action.
The witnesses allege that a blue E-20 minibus carrying several men arrived at the taxi rank. Without provocation the attackers opened fire indiscriminately at the unsuspecting commuters, including those who were already in minibuses. The commuters could not verify the number of attackers involved except that they were more than two and were whistling to one another.
Shots came from all directions, giving the impression that the victims were surrounded. The first shooting incident left 19 people dead and 22 others injured. At 19h30 in Katlehong, a second attack on a minibus taxi occured at the entrance of the township, near Morena shopping complex.
According to some of the victims, a white panel van was spotted on the side of the road shortly before the shootings. As the minibus taxi approached, two gunmen fired at the occupants killing 4 people instantly including the driver. The minibus went out of control and came to a standstill when it hit nearby rocks.
All the injured have been admitted to Natalspruit and William Cruywagen hospitals in the East Rand. At the time of our visit last night no arrests had been made by the police, nor was there any sign of visible activity to look for the attackers in the area. The ANC is continuing its own investigations and a full statement will be issued in due course.
Issued by the Department of Information and Publicity P.O Box 61884, Marshalltown, 2107
9 September 1993

[NOTE: retrieved 2008/12/18 http://www.anc.org.za/show.php?doc=ancdocs/pr/1993/pr0913b.html the ANC has removed this press statement from the public domain, I have a printed and scanned copy]

I was cycling home and I was in the immediate area at the time of the attack. I saw the flashes of gunshots as 19 people were shot dead and the other 22 had gunshot or debris injuries, some were blown through shop windows or fell along the pavements in the retail centre waiting for transport, most victims were shot in parked minibuses on their way home, most were men and there were some women. The cops were cracking jokes. I stood in the centre of it all frozen and traumatised, I felt invisible, I was still a child. Police were there at the time of the shootings, whether they coordinated the assualt we will never know.

Tell me how this violence will lead to revolution?

meerov21
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Jan 10 2014 22:05

You seem to have no direct experience of your own to speak of and you are not active in building any organisation to speak of which can be tested. You have a fixation and clearly you have grandeous illusions about advocating violence.

This is just ad hominem arguments. I partisip[ated in dosens of strikes during lust 15 years. So what? You did not answer my argumentation. If you support social revolution you know this is violent prosses. Also as i said violanse is an indicator of trand from the class negotiations to the class war. Are you against class war? And tell me please what is the way to stop strikebreakers without violanse? To fuck with them or what?

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Jan 10 2014 22:07

I'm not a pacifist and I also don't get a hardon about violence, as you seem to do.

meerov21
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Jan 10 2014 22:11

You are an ignoramous. The workers were so severely repressed in that dispute that they were unable to organise in any way for several years. IDIOT

Nice talks again.
Is this insulting stile is normal for this forum?

meerov21
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Jan 10 2014 22:13

I'm not a pacifist and I also don't get a hardon about violence, as you seem to do. [/b]

maybe you should take your medicine to calm down?