Zimmerman acquited in Trayvon Martin killing

Submitted by Hieronymous on July 14, 2013

I've heard of demos in big West Coast cities like Los Angeles, Oakland, and San Francisco. What's happening with the demos elsewhere? Miami had several fires in the midst of their protests. I'm away from home and have heard very little. Please post news of what's happening in other places.

ludd

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by ludd on July 14, 2013

National list of demos can be found here: http://trayvonoc.wordpress.com

Black Badger

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Black Badger on July 14, 2013

local mainstream coverage:

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/07/13/100s-gather-for-zimmerman-verdict-protest-march-in-san-francisco/

Black Badger

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Black Badger on July 14, 2013

ANSWER in SF and RCP in Oakland are the ones making the most noise on the web calling for demos.

redsdisease

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by redsdisease on July 14, 2013

There was something of a spontaneous midnight march last night in DC that ended up attracting a few hundred folks: http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/07/14/protesters-of-george-zimmerman-acquittal-march-in-d-c/

A group in D.C. grew from three people to about 400 as it marched for an hour and a half from U Street to Adams Morgan to Columbia Heights, picking up people from bars and clubs along the way.

That same article also mentions unconfirmed reports that a breakaway night march in LA blocked a commuter train.

City News Service said that at one point a smaller group stopped an Expo Line train as police urged them to return to the nearby park. But police couldn’t immediately confirm that report.

It seems like a lot of demos are set to happen at around six this evening, which is right about now on the East Coast.

Spiorad Saor

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Spiorad Saor on July 15, 2013

This was hardly surprising to me given the Florida legal system which is one of the most racist in America, The way the jury was stacked in favor of Zimmerman, the prosecutor was terrible and the stupid stand your ground law even though he didn't stand his ground because he was the one who instigated the altercation! If Zimmerman had been black there is no way he would have gotten off with anything less then manslaughter or probably second degree murder.

The legal system is bent in favor of the ruling classes and against minorities and the working class as a whole. Like all bourgeois institutions it is inherently racist and has nothing to do with justice. It's a sad day when someone can confront a unarmed kid who was only walking home from the shop, shoot him and kill after he starts the racket and get off with it in the name of "justice". It's justice alright. Justice for the bourgeois.

Whale

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Whale on July 19, 2013

I will be honest here. I don't think Zimmerman should've been acquitted. On the same coin, he is by no means guilty of murder. There's just not enough evidence for that. Both of these guys should've walked away, and unfortunately, one died and the other man still lives. Should he serve some kind of jail time? Sure, just for being a pompous ass with a hero complex. But do I honestly buy into the narrative that he shot Trayvon because he was black and looked " like a thug"? No, I don't, and my fellow comrades would be wise to look at all of the facts.

redsdisease

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by redsdisease on July 19, 2013

Whale

No, I don't, and my fellow comrades would be wise to look at all of the facts.

You're right, we're all ignorant and haven't looked at the facts, we're just blindly going off some politically correct white guilt. God knows we couldn't have looked at the facts and *gasp* come to a different conclusion than you.

throwawayhero

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by throwawayhero on July 19, 2013

redsdisease

Whale

No, I don't, and my fellow comrades would be wise to look at all of the facts.

You're right, we're all ignorant and haven't looked at the facts, we're just blindly going off some politically correct white guilt.

Well, it's funny redsdisease, you seem to be buying into the liberal media perspective very readily. The liberal media condemned Zimmerman as a murderer immediately and has done so since. Your manufactured outrage over this case is unfounded and is not based on facts. Zimmerman isn't a racist, and 100% of forensic evidence (and witness testimony) supports Zimmerman's case.

If you want to argue with testimony, that's fine, but arguing with forensics is just plain stupid. If you're still blindly following the Trayvon bandwagon like little liberalised sheep, then you've all failed as 'anarchists' or 'socialists' or whatever you are calling yourselves these days.

ajjohnstone

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by ajjohnstone on July 19, 2013

I recall a few years ago, ( i can't remember when actually) a visiting Scot in Texas got himself lost and panicked and went up to a house, shouting out for some assistance. He got shot dead and the house-owner under Texan law was fully entitled to shoot without any warning anybody on his property so he was not even charged, not brought to trial.

Tyrion

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Tyrion on July 19, 2013

Whale

I will be honest here. I don't think Zimmerman should've been acquitted. On the same coin, he is by no means guilty of murder. There's just not enough evidence for that. Both of these guys should've walked away, and unfortunately, one died and the other man still lives. Should he serve some kind of jail time? Sure, just for being a pompous ass with a hero complex. But do I honestly buy into the narrative that he shot Trayvon because he was black and looked " like a thug"? No, I don't, and my fellow comrades would be wise to look at all of the facts.

People should be imprisoned for being pompous asses with hero complexes? What the hell?

syndicalist

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by syndicalist on July 19, 2013

Organizing going on in Paterson, NJ. An occasional LibCom poster is key in this organizing.
(Sorry, i don't remember his Libcom handle), Yeshoa I think) .

syndicalist

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by syndicalist on July 19, 2013

Attention Norther NJ folks.....All out in Paterson!

Tomorrow, July 20th, we will be organizing in front of City Hall in Downtown Paterson at 12PM to march not just for Trayvon Martin, but all victims of an unjust system. We ALL must be there! Bring your posters, positive energies, and commitment to justice for Trayvon! Spread the Word!

From Paterson Shoutout

syndicalist

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by syndicalist on July 19, 2013

Attention Northern NJ folks.....All out in Paterson!

Tomorrow, July 20th, we will be organizing in front of City Hall in Downtown Paterson at 12PM to march not just for Trayvon Martin, but all victims of an unjust system. We ALL must be there! Bring your posters, positive energies, and commitment to justice for Trayvon! Spread the Word!

From Paterson Shoutout

Agent of the I…

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Agent of the I… on July 19, 2013

throwawayhero

Speaking as leftist, I find those calling themselves 'leftists' and blindly supporting the Trayvon case (despite that the forensic evidence and witness testimony suggests that he actually WAS a violent thug) to be an utter embarrassment to the left-wing. The left owes Trayvon Martin NOTHING. It is the LIBERAL MEDIA that are pushing this politically-correct bullshit, and playing a false race card in a situation where it doesn't even apply. Certainly at least violent enough to beat Zimmerman multiple times. A 'kid' does not physically best a fully-grown man. Trayvon was no 'kid'.

I mean seriously, are you guys really so dumb as to buy into the 'innocent Trayvon' lie? Even Obama is pushing it, and you guys eat it up? Any 'leftist' who supports Trayvon is an embarrassment to the left, and we can do without such fools.

Hell, the very fact that 'anarchists' are calling for prosecutions should ring some contradiction alarm bells.

There was no forensic evidence that Martin was a violent thug, and the only witness to claim so was Zimmerman himself. There was no forensic evidence on Zimmerman's gun that proves Martin attempted to grab it from its holster or whatever; neither was there forensic evidence that Martin had try to suffocate Zimmerman by putting his hand on his mouth. Maybe the rain washed it all away. I don't know, and you don't know. But the fact is there was no "forensic evidence" to speak of.

Dr Llareggub

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Dr Llareggub on July 19, 2013

I have followed this trial and recommend that those criticising the verdict check the forensic evidence. Should there be a Federal prosecution or a civil prosecution the character evidence relating to Martin which was suppressed by the judge will have to be allowed. ( videos of his participation in organised fights, evidence of drugs, being kicked out by his father) This decision is causing misery to the Obama Administration who seek political capital out of the affair, and are actively encouraging the pro Trayvon demonstrators. The Stand Your Ground Laws were irrelevant to the case. But be careful here. In 46% cases of black shooting blacks Stand your Ground laws have supported black defendants.

Some information.
Zimmerman, a Latino with a black grandmother and a Jewish father who was brought up in a home with black children, and campaigned at weekends against the unfair treatment of blacks in prison, who was a registered Democrat, who voted for a black President, is being presented as a white supremacist who is supported by a racist white power elite, and don't forget how NBC and ABC deliberately doctored audio and video tape, respectively, to make Zimmerman appear racist or a liar about the fight.That has been wrongly presented by the BBC and others as an example of race profiling. It was nothing of the sort.

Race baiters have claimed on Twitter that black youths have some kind of right to assault innocent white people as a form of justice. Come on folks, there is justice, there is political correctness and there is downright dishonesty. Photographs and forensic evidence reveal injuries to Zimmerman's face and head are consistent with his story that he did not chase down and kill his alleged victim.

To everyone who put their hoods up & said “I am Trayvon”, you owe his Mother $2.00 for using a Trademarked phrase she copyrighted less than a month after he died. That is called capitalism. She employed the same PR firm that Obama had used which is not surprising that the President made his 'If I had a son speech' to secure the black vote in 2012. The New Black Panthers have seized on the trial to put forward their own agenda, which can be identified in their leader's description of Zimmerman as a 'No good Jew'.

Two losers, a tragic outcome of the American dream: a wannabee cop and a wannabee gangsta, both used and lied about by very nasty political forces, which seem to have swept the uncritical left along with them.

Consider this: are the media, in league with the administration, trying to provoke riots in order the usher in gun control, extensive federal control? Is it a diversion from chronic black unemployment and other scandals? Come on, where are the anarchist thinkers? US blacks suffer higher unemployment than ever, many are victims of criminal gang warfare, with blacks killing blacks. Since the Trayvon killing 11,000 blacks have been killed by blacks. Something needs to be done about this.They need to organise and fight back, but not under the direction of the race baters and liberal media.

But never mind. I will assume that anarchists here in the UK - whose ideas of the race issue in the US are derived from Gone With the Wind - will be protesting.

Agent of the I…

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Agent of the I… on July 19, 2013

Dr. Doom

( videos of his participation in organised fights, evidence of drugs, being kicked out by his father)

That's your forensic evidence? They didn't happen within the scene of the crime.

Zimmerman was arrested three times, once for domestic violence, once for resisting a police officer with violence, and speeding. That happened in his past. Why don't you bring up that?

Why don't you bring up the fact that he had called the police 46 times on mostly black males? Including on a 7-9 year old black boy on August 2011?

What's funny about Zimmerman is the fact that he was a self-appointed neighborhood watch. I mean, come on.

radicalgraffiti

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by radicalgraffiti on July 19, 2013

Agent of the Fifth International

Dr. Doom

( videos of his participation in organised fights, evidence of drugs, being kicked out by his father)

That's your forensic evidence? They didn't happen within the scene of the crime.

Zimmerman was arrested three times, once for domestic violence, once for resisting a police officer with violence, and speeding. That happened in his past. Why don't you bring up that?

Why don't you bring up the fact that he had called the police 46 times on mostly black males? Including on a 7-9 year old black boy on August 2011?

What's funny about Zimmerman is the fact that he was a self-appointed neighborhood watch. I mean, come on.

he also has a history of sexually abusing children

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/16/george-zimmerman_n_1676729.html

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/07/17/george_zimmerman_molestation_accusations_relevant_testimony_in_trial.html

redsdisease

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by redsdisease on July 19, 2013

Wow, good to see this case is pulling all the lefty racists out of the woodwork.

Whale

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Whale on July 19, 2013

Agent of the Fifth International

throwawayhero

Speaking as leftist, I find those calling themselves 'leftists' and blindly supporting the Trayvon case (despite that the forensic evidence and witness testimony suggests that he actually WAS a violent thug) to be an utter embarrassment to the left-wing. The left owes Trayvon Martin NOTHING. It is the LIBERAL MEDIA that are pushing this politically-correct bullshit, and playing a false race card in a situation where it doesn't even apply. Certainly at least violent enough to beat Zimmerman multiple times. A 'kid' does not physically best a fully-grown man. Trayvon was no 'kid'.

I mean seriously, are you guys really so dumb as to buy into the 'innocent Trayvon' lie? Even Obama is pushing it, and you guys eat it up? Any 'leftist' who supports Trayvon is an embarrassment to the left, and we can do without such fools.

Hell, the very fact that 'anarchists' are calling for prosecutions should ring some contradiction alarm bells.

There was no forensic evidence that Martin was a violent thug, and the only witness to claim so was Zimmerman himself. There was no forensic evidence on Zimmerman's gun that proves Martin attempted to grab it from its holster or whatever; neither was there forensic evidence that Martin had try to suffocate Zimmerman by putting his hand on his mouth. Maybe the rain washed it all away. I don't know, and you don't know. But the fact is there was no "forensic evidence" to speak of.

The fact is, that is incorrect. There are various social media sites that paint a different picture of trayvon than what the corporate media would have you believe. There is also the physical evidence of an unregistered firearm owned by trayvon, as well as the evidence alluding to his drug use. Even the, that's not the point.

My point was that a second degree murder charge is an inappropriate reaction. Negligent homicide or manslaughter is more appropriate, though the judges recommendation of thirty years smacks of political glad handing. Zimmerman should serve time for the arrogance that lead to a kids death. He did not have to follow him, and he did so because he wanted to play cop. That's fine, but then he began the escalation and syg doesn't apply to me. On the flip side, Trayvon was no saint, and its reasonable to conclude he beat the hell out of Zimmerman. But that still doesn't justify him getting shot.

In my eyes, both are guilty.

Chilli Sauce

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Chilli Sauce on July 19, 2013

Wait, have we gone from "evidence" to "concluding" it reasonable that someone decided to "beat the hell" out of someone else who was brandishing a gun? Tell me Whale, if you were followed, confronted the person who followed you only to see they were strapped, would you pick a fight?

If you're still blindly following the Trayvon bandwagon like little liberalised sheep, then you've all failed as 'anarchists' or 'socialists' or whatever you are calling yourselves these days.

Sheeple :roll:

Also, I don't which one of you wankers think that we're "Leftists", but you could do with reading at least libcom's introduction to the state if you think you've stumbled onto a Leftist site.

Whale

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Whale on July 19, 2013

So cuts, blood and abrasions magically appeared? That isn't evidence to you? I think people should ask what they want out of this. If the answer is second degree murder and life, then I would say you are ignorant of the charge. If you say manslaughter or negligent homicide, I can agree with that.

Right now, all I see is a lot of bickering about irrelevant information. To add something of substance, a civil case based on racist profiling of trayvon has better chances here and hopefully some justice will be seen.

I'm not an expert on law and I admittedly probably don't know 100% of the backstory on both people. I just tend to not gravitate to an extreme on either side on things like this, because I'm more of a pacifist, and I don't support SYG or street violence. Or violence of any kind like that. It's just sad really.

radicalgraffiti

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by radicalgraffiti on July 19, 2013

a few minor cuts and bruises are what you can expect if you stalk someone and try to confrontation them, you dont get to cry about self defense because you decide the kill them when you aren't doing well in the resulting fight.

the fact is Zimmerman is wholly responsible for everything that happened because he chose to follow, and therefor confront trayvon martin.

If you think taking drugs makes some one a thug your a fucking idiot btw

and "pacifists" are scum always defending who ever has power

Whale

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Whale on July 19, 2013

I never said because he smoked pot, he was a thug. Calm down. kthx.

I just think both people a fucking moronic, that's all. I'm removing myself from this thread lol.

radicalgraffiti

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by radicalgraffiti on July 19, 2013

Whale

I never said because he smoked pot, he was a thug. Calm down. kthx.

oh really??

Whale

Agent of the Fifth International

throwawayhero

Speaking as leftist, I find those calling themselves 'leftists' and blindly supporting the Trayvon case (despite that the forensic evidence and witness testimony suggests that he actually WAS a violent thug)
....
.

There was no forensic evidence that Martin was a violent thug, and the only witness to claim so was Zimmerman himself.
...

The fact is, that is incorrect. There are various social media sites that paint a different picture of trayvon than what the corporate media would have you believe. There is also the physical evidence of an unregistered firearm owned by trayvon, as well as the evidence alluding to his drug use.
...

Whale

I just think both people a fucking moronic, that's all. I'm removing myself from this thread lol.

good, fuck off

Whale

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Whale on July 20, 2013

I forgot how many asshats populated libsoc/com sites....

redsdisease

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by redsdisease on July 20, 2013

Whale

I forgot how many asshats populated libsoc/com sites....

If you left it would be one fewer.

Whale

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Whale on July 20, 2013

Not sure how I'm an asshat, and now I'm 100% sure you're a troll.

S. Artesian

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by S. Artesian on July 20, 2013

Hey asshat, and I mean you Whale, you rancid piece of ratfat-- the bottom line is that Trayvon ran away from a confrontation and Zimmerman chased him. That's the end of "stand your ground," moron. You can't chase the guy down a street when there is no evidence of a crime.

Moron...

syndicalist

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by syndicalist on July 20, 2013

Can we close the asshat conversation. I mean this conversation.

Whale

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Whale on July 20, 2013

S. Artesian

Hey asshat, and I mean you Whale, you rancid piece of ratfat-- the bottom line is that Trayvon ran away from a confrontation and Zimmerman chased him. That's the end of "stand your ground," moron. You can't chase the guy down a street when there is no evidence of a crime.

Moron...

I don't support SYG. At all. I never have.

Agent of the I…

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Agent of the I… on July 20, 2013

Whale

S. Artesian

Hey asshat, and I mean you Whale, you rancid piece of ratfat-- the bottom line is that Trayvon ran away from a confrontation and Zimmerman chased him. That's the end of "stand your ground," moron. You can't chase the guy down a street when there is no evidence of a crime.

Moron...

I don't support SYG. At all. I never have.

I think your a Stalinist. It explains your loyalty to the SP.

Agent of the I…

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Agent of the I… on July 20, 2013

Agent of the Fifth International

Whale

S. Artesian

Hey asshat, and I mean you Whale, you rancid piece of ratfat-- the bottom line is that Trayvon ran away from a confrontation and Zimmerman chased him. That's the end of "stand your ground," moron. You can't chase the guy down a street when there is no evidence of a crime.

Moron...

I don't support SYG. At all. I never have.

I think your a Stalinist. It explains your loyalty to the SP.

Which makes you very much uncommunist in your mode of thinking.

Whale

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Whale on July 20, 2013

I'm not a member of the SP USA. I'm not a member of any org. I put that in my info because I'm looking at joining it. If you can tell me why it's stalinist, I won't.

BTW, this thread is about Zimmerman's trial and verdict. Not about you and witch hunts.

syndicalistcat

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by syndicalistcat on July 20, 2013

jeez, this convo did bring the racists out of the closet. according to a juror who has spoken publically they wouldn't convict zimmerman because trayvon confronted him, "Why are you following me?" rather than run away. But the history of black males running away are not great...they often get shot in this country. why should he have to run away if Florida has a "stand your ground" law? zimmerman said when he saw trayvon "he looks like he's up to no good". based on what? being black, a teenager? he said "they always get away". as explanation for not obeying the police dispatcher who told him not to follow him. who is this "they"? in the context of the USA this fits a well-worn pattern.

Dr Llareggub

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Dr Llareggub on July 20, 2013

Dr. Doom wrote:
( videos of his participation in organised fights, evidence of drugs, being kicked out by his father)
That's your forensic evidence? They didn't happen within the scene of the crime
---------------------------------------
No that is not my forensic evidence. How on earth could it be? This was the character evidence which was disallowed by the judge because it took place before the encounter with Zimmerman. I made a distinction between the character evidence and the forensic evidence. In the 186 pages of forensic evidence there is material relating to the injuries on Zimmerman's face, and on the back of his head which are consistent with his story. Try to understand a vital difference between forensic evidence and character evidence. I note in your piece, you bring in character evidence relating to Zimmerman. This may be relevant if Federal charges are made, but were neither forensic nor part of the crime scene.

Now if you can allow your political prejudices to stop obscuring the truth we can recognise so much damaging character evidence on both sides. I described them both as two losers. Zimmerman, a wannabee cop, neighbourhood watch. You said I should refer to him as a self appointed neighbourhood watch, but I referred to him as a wannabee cop. He had a pepper spray for self defence but the cops told him to get a gun, complete a course on handling guns with the police, which he did. He has a record for petty crimes,(some not nice at all). but it will be hard to pin a racist charge on him.He also is well documented for campaigns supporting black people. The weekend before the killing he was seen handing out leaflets demanding justice for a black prisoner who had been abused by prison guards. Martin, another loser. Street fighter, involved in drugs, broken family, on the road to a life of crime and persecution from the cops.

I wish you could see the broader issues here: Two unfortunate losers against the background of a betrayal of the ethnic people in the US. So one is scape goated for killing another - just at a time when the US President was seeking re election in 2012. And today, predictably, Obama is playing the race card again, in his comments on the trial. when his leadership is facing bigger issues than Nixon ever faced.(War, drones, unemployment etc.) Its called diversion, divide and rule, and it is being used against US ethnics, who are being set up by the liberal media and the politicians. And anarchists are going along with it.

Mr. Jolly

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Mr. Jolly on July 20, 2013

Why is some dipshit walking around with a shooter doing gods will thinking he's the lone ranger. Your country is one hell of a fuck up on a number of levels.

flaneur

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by flaneur on July 20, 2013

We are all shooters of unarmed black boys :rb:

Mr. Jolly

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Mr. Jolly on July 20, 2013

throwawayhero

Mr. Jolly

Why is some dipshit walking around with a shooter doing gods will thinking he's the lone ranger. Your country is one hell of a fuck up on a number of levels.

That's not how it is at all. Let me explain this for you, since you've clearly gotten all of your 'info' from the liberal media.

1) Zimmerman was elected by the community as a watchman.

2) He only started carrying a gun on police recommendation after reporting that a stray pitbull cornered his wife. It is absolutely reasonable that someone carry a gun in America.

3) Crimes committed at The Retreat in the year prior to Martin's death included eight burglaries, nine thefts, and one shooting. That's why the community elected Zimmerman as a watchman, and part of the reason he was armed. He was only there to protect his neighbourhood and people WANTED him there.

Trayvon is no 'martyr', except to black racists like Jesse Jackson. But fuck those clowns, they are not interested in civil rights, they are interested in exploiting black history for their own ends. Jackson couldn't be further from being a working class black man.

4) Trayvon viciously attacked Zimmerman. Evidence proves it, witness testimonies back it up. It is clear that Trayvon's family lied repeatedly trying to frame Zimmerman. Pathetic.

That doesn't invalidate my point. Quite the opposite.

Uncreative

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Uncreative on July 20, 2013

Is throwawayhero a Spart?

"Defend the deformed workers neighbourhood watch's right to bear arms!!!!!"

ajjohnstone

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by ajjohnstone on July 20, 2013

throwawayhero " It is absolutely reasonable that someone carry a gun in America."

That's the real problem, a belief in the virtues of a Colt 45 or whatever

Shorty

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Shorty on July 20, 2013

throwawayhero

Well, I'm done with this pathetic website. I used to think there were some decent leftists on here, but clearly I was wrong. You lot are nothing but a bunch of sheep following what the liberal media and President Obama tell you to believe. Utterly pathetic, if you idiots cannot see past the party line on this one, then you're pretty god damn stupid.

Used to think? You've been a posting member a whole day! And you don't seem to have been reading it that long either, particularly for your rhetorical flares and triggers that are so completely odd and strange in who you seem to think you're aiming them at, "leftists", "liberals" etc. :confused: Wrong website.
You come across as some sort of stooge.

syndicalist

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by syndicalist on July 20, 2013

Very wierd that newbies are on board with pretty racially oriented opinions.

Agent of the I…

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Agent of the I… on July 20, 2013

Whale joined 29 hours ago, and Dr. Doom followed his way in 4 hours later. It's a interventionist tactic. They were sent by the Zimmerman Defense Propaganda Committee. They are trying to spread the virtues of Zimmerman, convince us that he's the real deal, that he's the leader we've all been waiting for.

Caiman del Barrio

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Caiman del Barrio on July 20, 2013

Hello, I have little interest in properly reading the bizarre defenses of Zimmerman on here, but I thought I'd just take up this one point, which I don't think has been contested thus far:

Dr Llareggub

Zimmerman, a Latino with a black grandmother and a Jewish father who was brought up in a home with black children, and campaigned at weekends against the unfair treatment of blacks in prison, who was a registered Democrat, who voted for a black President, is being presented as a white supremacist who is supported by a racist white power elite, and don't forget how NBC and ABC deliberately doctored audio and video tape, respectively, to make Zimmerman appear racist or a liar about the fight.That has been wrongly presented by the BBC and others as an example of race profiling. It was nothing of the sort.

This is a completely fallacious understanding of how racism operates & manifests itself IMO. I don't think most contemporary racism (following the civil rights movt etc) is the result of a conscious, rational decision, rather it is largely a result of conditioning and manipulation by a fundamentally and institutionally racist society. Even the people on here defending Martin are constantly battling against the social pressure to assume and benefit from racist attitudes and privileges. Ironically, considering the cries of 'liberal' from the (apparently?) pro-Zimmerman camp, restricting accusations of racism to those who openly identify thus is a head-in-the-sand liberal position, excusing those who preface their bigotry with 'I'm not racist but...', 'some of my best friends are black', 'I eat tacos', etc, etc.

Having not followed the details of this case too closely, it seems pretty probable to me that Zimmerman's attitude towards Martin was influenced - nay, determined - by his own set of racial profiling and assumptions. In short, he probably wouldn't have pursued and shot him if he was white.

Toms

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Toms on July 20, 2013

Dr Llareggub

But be careful here. In 46% cases of black shooting blacks Stand your Ground laws have supported black defendants.

I don't see how this signifies anything and requires mentioning. If one wanted to try and see how the stand your ground law is being applied in an inherently racist way or not, the ratio to look for should be something like the percentage of times the law supported black defendants in cases of black people shooting white people versus the percentage of times the law supported white defendants in cases of white people shooting black people.

Reddebrek

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Reddebrek on July 20, 2013

New boys wrote

Some information.
Zimmerman, a Latino with a black grandmother and a Jewish father who was brought up in a home with black children, and campaigned at weekends against the unfair treatment of blacks in prison, who was a registered Democrat, who voted for a black President, is being presented as a white supremacist who is supported by a racist white power elite, and don't forget how NBC and ABC deliberately doctored audio and video tape, respectively,

Well, it's funny redsdisease, you seem to be buying into the liberal media perspective very readily. The liberal media condemned Zimmerman as a murderer immediately and has done so since. Your manufactured outrage over this case is unfounded and is not based on facts. Zimmerman isn't a racist, and 100% of forensic evidence (and witness testimony) supports Zimmerman's case.

1) Based on the fact that he was wandering casually between the alleys behind houses and peering in windows on a rainy night when basically nobody at all is outside. You gotta admit that is suspicious. And considering Trayvon's background of thievery and burglary, Zimmerman wasn't far wrong (if at all!).

You know for a pair apparently so troubled that Zimmerman has been the victim of media hit you don't seem to have any reservations about smearing a Seventeen year old. I also wonder why anyone's even bringing it up except as a tactic to try and win an argument. I'm not American but I thought the only way to justify use of lethal force was if you believed your life was threatened right?

So what does Trayvon's past have to do with anything, unless Zimmerman knew Trayvon his past simply isn't a factor because there's no way it could influence Zimmerman's actions and conclusions.

Also you both seem pretty firm on this idea that Zimmerman's the victim of a pretty sophisticated conspiracy from both the media (foreign and domestic) and government. Could you tell me what if anything they'd gain from this if Zimmerman was found guilty? He seems to be pretty irrelevant so why go to the effort?

throwawayhero

Justice was done.

Your 'mob' vigilantism is not justice btw. Fuck Trayvon Martin, one less shithead. Zimmerman deserves a new identity.

Surprised no one's addressed this disgusting tangent. That's a surprising level of hostility and glee over the death of some random 17 year old, I wonder why that could be...

S. Artesian

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by S. Artesian on July 20, 2013

That's the real problem, a belief in the virtues of a Colt 45 or whatever

Nope, that's not the real problem. The real problem is racism that says it's OK to chase and shoot an unarmed black teenager because you know, being black is grounds for murder.

boozemonarchy

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by boozemonarchy on July 20, 2013

some asshole

4) I don't care whether Trayvon tried to grab Zimmerman's gun or not, he was on top of him, beating him badly. He had the right to defend himself. Now you 'anarchists' are calling for the LAW and STATE to punish him for defending himself and his freedom to live? ha! What utter hypocrites you all are!

So, uh. . . A quick read through the thread reveals that no regular libcom poster has made such a call. However, I'm quite certain that no regular libcom poster would give two shits what the LAW and STATE would do to him in the event of conviction. Just sayin'.

Also, I think most folks on here understand that even in an anarchist society, Zimmerman would be facing a pretty profound punishment for his CRIME (omg! scare caps!!!1!). I'm thinking you don't know shit about fuck when it comes to the ANarkIEZ!!!1! So yea, learn a little bit about it first, it will help you be a more effective troll, you fuck. . .

Chilli Sauce

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Chilli Sauce on July 20, 2013

F*cking gold mine of a post.

You know what I find is a way to make a point? To make a series of progressively illogical posts one after another, after another, after another...

You lot are nothing but a bunch of sheep following what the liberal media and President Obama tell you to believe.

Sheeple :roll:

from punching Zimmerman repeatedly, clearly in an attempt to kill him

Yes, because anytime anyone has punched anyone else they did so in 'an attempt to kill him' (or her). :roll:

Also, I love how fists are a clear attempt to kill, but somehow we excuse, ya know, guns...

If you call yourself a leftist

Who on this site calls themself a leftist? Why exactly do you think you're on a leftist website?

[Martin] was on top of [Zimmerman], beating him badly.

And your evidence for this, other than Zimmerman's claims?

[Zimmerman] had a promising career

Ah, he had a "promising career", did he? The the definition every anarchist looks for when trying to decide guilt and innocence... :roll:

Angelus Novus

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Angelus Novus on July 21, 2013

Dr Llareggub

Zimmerman, a Latino with a black grandmother and a Jewish father who was brought up in a home with black children

Just FYI, Zimmerman's father is of German descent, not Jewish.

Zimmermann = German for "carpenter", a fairly common last name.

This just seems to be another part of the concerted effort to exonerate Zimmermann by playing the American identity game: "oh, a Jewish Latino, he can't possible be a racist shitbag!"

And FYI, Latino is a linguistic-cultural designation, not a "racial" one. There are "white" Latinos. The entire political-economic power structure in Miami is in the hands of such (basically, the exiled Batista-era Cuban ruling stratum).

S. Artesian

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by S. Artesian on July 21, 2013

get rid of these racist motherfuckers now. There was no trace of Zimmerman's DNA on Trayvon's hands. How do you beat somebody bloody, bang his head and not get his DNA on your hands?

Look this trial was set-up-- from the cops, to the prosecutors, to the judge to get Zimmerman off-- the story and the pictures of his "beating" are scams. He had no broken nose, no lacerations at the back of his scalp. Check the ER report.

The judge doesn't allow race to be brought into it. The prosecutor doesn't bring in the salient evidence.... like Martin tried to get away and was pursued by this bully.

Get rid of these racist motherfuckers now.

Agent of the I…

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Agent of the I… on July 21, 2013

One of the prosecutors, State Attorney Angela Corey, is a conservative Republican. Does that help by any bit?

Chilli Sauce

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Chilli Sauce on July 21, 2013

Whale

I forgot how many asshats populated libsoc/com sites....

Just re-reading some of the mentalness on this thread and, to give credit where credit is due, asshat is a great word.

Juan Conatz

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Juan Conatz on July 21, 2013

S. Artesian

Nope, that's not the real problem. The real problem is racism that says it's OK to chase and shoot an unarmed black teenager because you know, being black is grounds for murder.

Agreed. Gun culture here is rooted in America's race relations and past, not the other way around.

Chilli Sauce

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Chilli Sauce on July 21, 2013

Well put Juan.

I haven't read much from Miami Autonomy and Solidarity on Trayvon Martin and I think it'd be really interesting to hear something from folks on the ground. I had a look on their website, but nothing extensive, anyone know if they have an article or statement planned?

Steven.

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Steven. on July 21, 2013

Hi all, just to say those three racists who registered just recently to post rubbish in this thread have been banned, and some of their most ridiculous posts unpublished. Apologies for the delay but didn't see them until now

Black Badger

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Black Badger on July 21, 2013

Better late than never.

Hieronymous

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Hieronymous on July 21, 2013

Makes me wonder if it really was three racists, or just the return of our regular trolls (i.e. CRUD, Stan Milgram, et al.) under different handles.

syndicalist

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by syndicalist on July 21, 2013

actually, there was a similiar poster on Anarkismo comments page

Fed up trying …

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Fed up trying … on July 22, 2013

Here is a short reply to the remark about New boys.
What is your point about new boys? Are you trying to say that new boys are coming in with an agenda? Untrue.
First, my pseudonym is Dr Llareggub, whom you call a new boy. I cannot enter with that name for some reason so just to reply to you I thought up a new one.
Read my posts on the subject. (by Dr Llareggub) I am trying to show a bigger agenda than the accusation that Zimmerman was a racist. My posts say that the agenda is been driven by government and media sources who have an objective. Perhaps to outlaw guns, perhaps as a distraction, but the media are pushing the race card and the lefties are buying it.

Your reference to New Boy, is the kind of thing that is destroying the left: you attack the man not what he says, play the man, not the ball. Insinuating that I have been drafted in to put forward a racist agenda. Read my posts again, I say that both Zimmerman and Trayvon are victims. Playing the race card as a typical sheepie, is rather sad.

I am not a new boy, have posts here going back to discussions on that great liar, Ian Bone, a phony anarchist from Swansea, who I once collaborated with in Solidarity Swansea. You have printed full issues of my pamphlets from the old Solidarity Movements, and only two weeks ago someone replied to my remarks about a rather peculiar anarchist apostate calling himself Incubus.

So I am not new, but rather ancient.

But I fear that lies, ignoring arguments, playing the man, are destroying the credibility of the left.
As for the Zimmerman case. Try to see beyond what the BBC and US media are saying.

Trayvon's past was rightly ruled out by the judge in the court. It played no role in events surrounding the killing. But it will be relevant in the case of a Federal charge or Civil case, as that will allow a wider scope for character evidence. I see You Tube have been instructed to remove Trayvons fight videos, but they remain on other sources. Why should his parents lawyers want them removed?

Entdinglichung

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Entdinglichung on July 22, 2013

Uncreative

Is throwawayhero a Spart?

"Defend the deformed workers neighbourhood watch's right to bear arms!!!!!"

the Spart statement isn't that bad

George Zimmerman got away with the coldblooded killing of Trayvon Martin. Not even a slap on the wrist, nothing. The verdict is the 21st-century echo of Chief Justice Taney’s infamous declaration in the Supreme Court’s 1857 Dred Scott decision that black people “had no rights which the white man was bound to respect.” Dred Scott was a fugitive slave, Trayvon Martin a black teenager walking home from a 7-Eleven store with a bag of candy and an iced tea. But for wannabe cop and racist vigilante George Zimmerman, the 17-year-old Martin was on the “white” side of the tracks in Sanford, Florida, one of the “punks” who “always get away.” So he stalked Trayvon like a fugitive slave and shot him dead. This is what they call post-racial America, where a black man sits in the Oval Office and black life on the streets is as cheap as ever.

boozemonarchy

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by boozemonarchy on July 22, 2013

New Boy speak,

"the race card" = acknowledging racism exists

Dr. Doom, you can't enter with your other handle because you've been banned.

Chilli Sauce

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Chilli Sauce on July 22, 2013

Why do all the new boys think they're on a Leftist website?!? And why won't they answer it when I ask them?

(I blame the agenda of the liberal media, but you people probably wouldn't understand that, brainwashed as you are by Obama playing the race card.)

Agent of the I…

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Agent of the I… on July 22, 2013

Chilli Sauce

Why do all the new boys think they're on a Leftist website?!? And why won't they answer it when I ask them?

(I blame the agenda of the liberal media, but you people probably wouldn't understand that, brainwashed as you are by Obama playing the race card.)

They themselves think they're leftists, in a world full of leftists, so that would make them heterodox leftists railing against the agenda of orthodox leftists who control the leftist media.

Steven.

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Steven. on July 22, 2013

Fed up trying to sign in

Here is a short reply to the remark about New boys.
What is your point about new boys? Are you trying to say that new boys are coming in with an agenda? Untrue.
First, my pseudonym is Dr Llareggub, whom you call a new boy. I cannot enter with that name for some reason so just to reply to you I thought up a new one.

I am not a new boy, have posts here going back to discussions on that great liar, Ian Bone, a phony anarchist from Swansea, who I once collaborated with in Solidarity Swansea. You have printed full issues of my pamphlets from the old Solidarity Movements, and only two weeks ago someone replied to my remarks about a rather peculiar anarchist apostate calling himself Incubus.

yes I remember you, you made a very bizarre comment which didn't make much sense, then didn't respond when I asked for clarification.
You can't post with that old username because you have been banned, like this username. Because you came on here ranting about "blacks", "ethnics", "political correctness" and calling a murder victim a "wannabe gangster" on what basis? And you say he was involved in "drugs"? So what?! Probably over 90% of people on this website have been "involved in drugs" in one way or another. That doesn't mean anyone deserves to die or is a bad person.

Read my posts on the subject. (by Dr Llareggub) I am trying to show a bigger agenda than the accusation that Zimmerman was a racist.

your laughable attempts to show race not being a factor here (he has black friends! He voted for Obama!) are nonsense.

He killed a black child, because he thought he looked "suspicious". When racial stereotypes about criminal behaviour are so deeply ingrained in society you can't say that they haven't had an impact on something. How many innocent white children get killed by vigilantes who thought they looked "suspicious"?

Read my posts again, I say that both Zimmerman and Trayvon are victims. Playing the race card as a typical sheepie, is rather sad.

this is ridiculous as well. So they are both equally victims are they? While one of them has died never living to be an adult, and the other (a criminal with a history of domestic violence and allegations of child molestation) gets to go happily about his business everyday?

I know we have a no flaming rule on here, but seriously fuck off.

Agent of the I…

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Agent of the I… on July 23, 2013

I googled Dr. Llareggub and found him in the comments section of this page: http://thurrockheckler.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/no-platform/. He had some interesting things to say about anarchism and it shows how much little he really knows.

Dr. Doom

Ten unquestioned beliefs of the socialist/anarchist left
Those who question these beliefs are regarded as fascists, racists, suffering from false consciousness or mental disabilities, who must not be allowed a platform to express their beliefs.
1. The rich are the oppressors of the world and capitalism, which is their ideology, must be replaced by a society where wealth is distributed equally.
2. American influence in the world is evil; the US and UK armies are always on the wrong side in any conflict and those who oppose America and its allies must be recognised as freedom fighters and supported.
3. Israel is an apartheid state, supported by American capitalists, and is responsible for the genocide of Palestinians.
4. Capitalism is wrecking the planet and is causing global warming; extraction of all fossil fuel must be resisted, including shale gas and oil exploration which is not under OPEC control.
5. Christianity its institutions and moral beliefs derived from it are oppressive.
6. Muslims are victims and scapegoats for the faults of western capitalism. Islam is replacing Soviet and Maoist communism as the counter culture of the left and critics of Islam are Islamophobes, racists and fascists.
7. Critics of open door immigration are xenophobic racists and fascists.
8. Despite scandals the NHS is the envy of the world, and any suggested reforms must be resisted as creeping privatisation.
9. Abortion is a virtuous activity which should never be limited or questioned.
10. Truth is relative to the above political beliefs, therefore opposition to them expresses untruth, is fascist, and should be censored and curtailed.

The first one just says it all. Capitalism is an ideology? What??

So I guess his position is the complete opposite of all the points he ascribes to anarchists. That is: pro-capitalist, pro-US imperialism, pro-Israeli, anti-science, pro-fundamentalist Christian, Islamophobic, xenophobic, pro-privatization, pro-life, and make up whatever you believe.

Entdinglichung

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Entdinglichung on July 23, 2013

sounds a bit like a disgruntled former radical evolving into contrarianism, ... contemporary German Anti-Germans or Ex-RCP/Spiked acolytes hold similar viewpoints

syndicalistcat

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by syndicalistcat on July 23, 2013

Two unfortunate losers against the background of a betrayal of the ethnic people in the US. So one is scape goated for killing another - just at a time when the US President was seeking re election in 2012. And today, predictably, Obama is playing the race card again,

well, it's noteworthy this poster is a Euro. no clue about real situation in USA I would guess. talking about the "race card" is what conservatives do in the USA. There's a long history of white vigilante types taking violent action against blacks in "their" neighborhood, there is the example of the Goetz vigilante shooter on New York subway, and many others could be pointed to. Whether Zimmerman is part Peruvian or whatever isn't relevant. Anti-black racism in the USA is a systemic problem. Here in California I've had immigrant Indian and Chinese bosses who fell into racist stereotyping of black Americans, hassled a black coworker of mine based on racist stereotyping (as I found out because they thought as a white person I'd go along). Why did Zimmerman pursue Trayvon? He said he looked "up to no good". On what basis? The only available basis is his being black, apparently. Since Zimmerman had no reasonable basis of any wrongdoing, he was wrong to pursue him. His pursuit created the confrontation.

Fleur

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Fleur on July 24, 2013

Dr Llareggub rang a few bells for me when I read it, he's posted on some blogs & articles I've come across before, such as this one:

Post a Comment On: The bad old days will end

"What do we want? Xenophobia!"
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Dr Llarregub said...
I am not sure that UKIP stand for xenophobia, or racism for that matter. Perhaps they represent a strand in Classical Liberalism or Conservatism that has traditionally appealed to large sections of the working people, together with a vague respect for culture and traditions, not unlike the respect for Levellers and Diggers and other traditional ancestors of working class revolutionaries. The working class Tory has been with us for a long time, and is not created by the Mail or Express. Perhaps UKIP have caught a nerve which is rather sore having seen multiculturalism eclipse traditional working class lifestyles, with the race card played mercilessly against a class that has an honourable tradition of opposing racism.Who knows? Perhaps it is too early to sound my own trumpet - that a rejection of the left and its elitism is not such a bad thing. And that recognising that old style anarchist hostility to governments as providers of benefit might be a way forward. I cannot see much attractiveness in the left, and understand why the Monster Loonies beat TUSC in our area. Go to a left meeting or demo - oh cripes, Palestine, save the bloody planet, no platform for this or that. Sod it. No discussion, just silence the opposition. And along comes UKIP here as did the Tea Party in the US. Call them racists, call them fascists,clowns or whatever, but some people are talking and listening.Austerity, but no big demos here, just photos of Greeks and others yelling and shouting. We have a chance to break out of the straight jacket, consider alternatives. Christ, I mentioned that fracking and other ways of exploiting fossil fuel might be a chance to empower the working/manufacturing class - an idea. Screams of abuse from the left, you dirty neo con shill blah de blah. We need to start thinking and anarchists need to question their commitment to the left.As for me, whose dad was a lorry dirver and mum a maid (lower than a butler!) I look for wisdom in the class not the intellectuals who represent it.

He seems to have a lot of hostility to "the left", most anarchists, including some very personal grudges, environmental issues, multiculturalism, immigration and a whole slew of other things. I have a sort of mental image of him sitting in the pub, curmudgeonly nursing his pint on his own because no-one else wants to talk to him anymore. Perhaps his pseudonym is appropriate because he has Buggerall to say of any import.

I was appalled by some of the opinions expressed by the now banned new posters in this thread, and I had a whole long list of rebuttals to these points, the bulk of which have already been addressed by other posters, but the bottom line is that Trayvon Martin was just a kid who was walking home. That a young black man walking in an affluent area was perceived by Zimmerman as a threat and that this opinion was validated from by the beginning by reluctance to lay charges to the subsequent acquittal - if that's not racism, I really don't know what is.

Entdinglichung

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Entdinglichung on July 24, 2013

fleurnoire-et-rouge

He seems to have a lot of hostility to "the left", most anarchists, including some very personal grudges, environmental issues, multiculturalism, immigration and a whole slew of other things. I have a sort of mental image of him sitting in the pub, curmudgeonly nursing his pint on his own because no-one else wants to talk to him anymore. Perhaps his pseudonym is appropriate because he has Buggerall to say of any import.

Llareggub/Bugger all is by the way the fictional Welsh setting of Dylan Thomas's Under Milk Wood

Spikymike

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Spikymike on July 24, 2013

This Dr Llareggub seems to be lumping together the full left/anarchist spectrum without distinction and having spotted elements of it open to some serious questioning then goes off at a tangent looking for scraps within otherwise conservative forces that might somehow be saved and counterposed to 'the left'. I think Entdinglicheng in post 71 might have recognised these traits correctly. It means that amongst some rubbish spouted by said Dr there might be the odd valid point which makes dealing with their posts a little more testing than some of the other Zimmerman defenders who have been posting here.

Spikymike

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Spikymike on July 24, 2013

Sorry double post.

Mike S.

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Mike S. on July 28, 2013

At the least Zimmerman should've been convicted of manslaughter. I understand the law, as was instructed to the jury, made it next to impossible to get a second degree murder conviction. Bourgeois jurisprudence, especially in America, is very troubling.

jolasmo

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by jolasmo on July 28, 2013

Chilli Sauce

Why do all the new boys think they're on a Leftist website?!? And why won't they answer it when I ask them?

(I blame the agenda of the liberal media, but you people probably wouldn't understand that, brainwashed as you are by Obama playing the race card.)

As idiotic as their contributions have been on this thread, I think it's only fair to point out that you're using a very specific definition of 'the left' here, and one that isn't understood by the majority of people not versed in ultra-leftist terminology. Libcom would certainly be seen as a leftist site by most peoples definition of leftism.

~J.

Mike S.

10 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Mike S. on July 28, 2013

I'm not sure my post was understood. What I was saying was, within the framework of bourgeois law as is in Florida I don't see how a murder conviction could have been reached. I personally think Zimmerman should spend some serious time in prison, if one is to condone the American prison system. A manslaughter conviction can bring up to 8 years in prison and the reason the DA couldn't get a second degree murder conviction was precisely because the evidence to show both malicious intent and or any sort of blatant hate crime just wasn't there and or was suppressed by an inept prosecution. It was all circumstantial. Even the 911 phone call where Zimmerman was said to have called Trayvon a "coon" was muffled and unclear.

I personally think he saw a young black male and stereotyped him, which was racist, and followed him and caused a confrontation which is blatantly second degree murder and the jury should have, at the least, convicted Zimmerman of that with proper laws in place and proper prosecution and proper instruction by the judge. The thing with the courts in the US, in order to get a murder conviction, (if one has good attorneys) there must be ample evidence which shows intent and highlights the specifics of the circumstances just prior to, during and just after the murder. Florida also has these backwards "stand your ground" laws which became applicable in his defense. I'm not supporting these laws or his actions what I'm saying is the way the law in Florida is structured getting a murder conviction was extremely unlikely given the testimony that Zimmerman was being "beaten" by Martin. The stand your ground law, as it's written, places the burden of proof not on the defendant but on the victim and in this case, and others, the victim is dead.

My point is it's the way the laws are structured, structured in a manner which actually allows racial profiling and subsequent confrontations based on that profiling- if it ends up in what most of us see as obvious murder the stand your ground law opens up the door for a self defense acquittal BUT even with that shitty law Zimmerman should have been convicted of manslaughter and at the least more focus should have been put on the reason Zimmerman created a confrontation in the first place in so opening up the possibility for a second degree murder conviction. The whole case was a structural mess, systemic racism and shifty self defense laws led to the outcome. Even the jury selection was suspect.