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Police Ban for the Mancs M&S picketers

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JoeMaguire
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Nov 30 2004 18:04
Police Ban for the Mancs M&S picketers

This was on urban75

...........................................................................................................

POLICE BAN

Yes on Saturday the police handed the Boycott M&S picketters a letter from the Chief Constable of Greater Manchester which under Section 14 of The Public Order Act bans the Picket outside M&S from 29 November until 3 January 2005. The reason given is the amount of shoppers in the city centre in this period and the fact that, 'I (the Chief Constable) believe that it (the Picket) may result in serious disruption to the life of the community in the city of Manchester or serious public disorder'.

The police in a sham show of 'fairness' handed a similar letter to the Zionists who were gathering as they do every week to oppose us, on receipt of their letter the Zionists could not suppress their joy. 'We've won' they shouted, they treated the police ban as a victory for their tactics which of course it is in a way. Their whole aim has been through intimidation and disruption to get the Picket banned and the police have obliged them.

We of course are getting legal advise and will be having some sort of protest on Saturday. Please come out and support the only weekly protest in support of Palestine in Manchester we need you more than ever over the next few weeks. DON'T LET THE ZIONISTS WIN. DEFEND THE RIGHT TO PROTEST.

PICKET 'MANCHESTER EVENING NEWS'

After the report in the Manchester Evening News on 5 November of the Council debate on the right to protest in the city centre where Councillors Karney and Leese were quoted as calling the Picket anti-Semitic the MEN has not printed one of our letters in reply. The claim that the Picket is anti-Semitic is an outright lie and is the filth that the Zionist thug 'counter-protest' usually throw at us as they throw it at any campaign against Israel.

The failure of the MEN to print even one of our letters is blatant censorship and we will be protesting outside their office this Wednesday evening from 5.00pm till 6.00pm. Our aim will be to hand in a letter to the editor as well as making a noise!

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Refused
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Nov 30 2004 18:11

Where is the MEN's office??

spike
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Nov 30 2004 23:17
Refused wrote:
Where is the MEN's office??

on deansgate, next to the shiny new magistrates courts.

i wonder if the picketers are considering sueing for libel? would be a good fund raiser wink

captainmission
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Dec 1 2004 14:25

nah there's no way they could afford it.

though maybe the RCG should start charging for praising 3rd world dictators the way galloway does. smile

lucy82
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Dec 3 2004 12:53

gorgeous teflon george was innocent. the tape was faked. stop with your vicous slander or you'll be in the same shit as the telegraph...

grrrr...

(paul said i should be pleased galloway won the libel case. one of the few times in my life when i really lose the power of speech)

eek

captainmission
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Dec 3 2004 13:09

still he took money off musafh, the same one that tortures trots, and then said what a strong leader he was and pakistan wasn't ready for democracy.

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paul said i should be pleased galloway won the libel case.

paul your boss?? confused

captainmission
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Dec 4 2004 18:17

apparently 15 of them got arrested today angry

went down to bootle street but they seem to have been let out now

spike
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Dec 5 2004 01:15
captainmission wrote:
apparently 15 of them got arrested today angry

went down to bootle street but they seem to have been let out now

woah eek

shit sad

you know if they got charged with anything?

(i wish i'd gone down to show a bit of support now embarrassed :

Oi!
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Dec 6 2004 04:26

All were released Saturday evening, bailed untill mid January bet u can't guess one of the bail conditions.... that's right, banned from M/C on Saturdays. Interestingly the BBC covered it and included this bit of (mis?) info

"Police made the arrests after the demonstrators were asked to move their protests to Manchester Peace Gardens.

They are alleged to have breached conditions imposed by the Chief Constable on all public gatherings for the Christmas shopping period. "

Full article here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4069901.stm

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JDMF
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Dec 6 2004 12:52

perhaps the pickets could continue under some other group? Though have to respect those folks, they have picketed M&S for almost 4 years now, every single saturday, hows that!

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Dec 6 2004 13:07
revol68 wrote:
4 years of picketting and they still haven't worked out the complete irelevance of boycott politics, especially boycott politics that are so poorly thought out and lacking in strategy. roll eyes

revol, your razorsharp wit and strategic visionary never ceases to amaze me...

If you want to debate this, go to fucking organise forum or something, not in NW local forum where people are discussing what is happening to bunch of local comrades.

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Dec 8 2004 09:55

1. You can't go around other groups/campaigns/people and judge their activities according to your own goals. The picket can be criticised for various reasons, but your blanket knee jerk abuse is way of the mark (as usual).

Is the aim of the picket workers revolution, direct democracy and non-hierarchical society? Rather try things like educating the public about the situation in Palestine, bringing out the latest news (they had a board with what has happened in the past weeks in Palestine), meeting point for people wanting to get the latest about the issue, an act of solidarity for palestinians, and spreading the idea of boycotting israeli goods for the above reasons.

Were they succesful in these terms? More or less, their material could have been better laid out etc, normal low budget campaign criticism and many more, but you are just missing the whole point by a mile.

2. This thread is about oppression of their right to picket, right to protest, to be there and inform people. To come with your typical language and throwing around things like "wanky", "liberal" and stuff is as welcomed as Jacks insults on John Peel in his obituary thread because he was sure he read something nasty about him, but couldn't remember - just plain inconsiderate and out of place. You must have heard the word "solidarity" before? And don't reply whining about the lack of criticism in the "movement", you are free to start a thread about it somewhere else.

3. You are using shouting tactics, like a person in a meeting who has to make a comment to every fucking little thing there is and enjoys hearing their own voice. Same can be done online by flooding every fucking thread there is. You were stroking your ego in another thread saying that all i do is reply to your posts - wake up man, your posts are on every little thing there is! Now even in the north west forum FFS!

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Dec 8 2004 18:31

Demo this Saturday in the Peace Gardens 12 noon, for a show of solidarity for the picketers....

Hopefully I should bve in attendance, and from what I gather a national call out as been made....

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JDMF
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Dec 9 2004 11:09

damn, will miss it, will be in nottingham.

have a good one folks!

lucy82
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Dec 11 2004 19:04

the demo was pretty much a waste of time. Apart from the M & S picketers only literally two or three people (one of which was me) turned up as support as far as I could see. I have no alignment with the RCG (think its them who do the picket?) but I do think its pretty shit that more people couldn't have made it, given that the police have effectively stopped people protesting in groups in Manchester city centre.

Or so we thought....

Until the palestine protest in piccadilly at 3pm, attended by around 40 people, and circled but left alone basically by our bobbies in blue.

So it seems, there is no need to defend the right to protest. You can still gather and protest in Manchester city centre. Just don't be part of the regular picket outside Marks and Spencer.

So is that ok then?

I did suggest ones and twos up Market street with leaflets which included stuff about what the cops and legal system were doing and we did this and it worked. One guy got pounced on as soon as he got outside M and S by cops but they had to let him go cause he was only one, then another guy took his place. If people do this, the idea is to keep the cops on the backfoot.

We hung around the SWP stall on purpose for a while, swelling the numbers deliberately over twenty, but nothing happened....

I wasn't persuaded before that this was necessarily a witchhunt, but I was today. I am not arguing for the politics of the RCG or for boycott politics but I do feel uneasy that basically the manchester left are leaving these people to take the legal shit when basically the cops began by saying that groups of more than 20 in the city centre were banned from demonstrating and interfering with consumer shopping before January. A condition that has never been imposed on any group or demonstration in Manchester before in December. And is clearly not being imposed on other gatherings of people demonstrating in the city centre. Next Friday there is a judicial review for the M and S picket. What happens next is anyones guess.

everyone wants to be able to use the streets to protest. maybe we should think about what this means? what precedents will this set ? how will the outcome of this affect us all?

lucy82
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Dec 11 2004 19:35

oh and refused, nice to meet you smile

knightrose
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Dec 11 2004 20:44

I've got really mixed feelings about all this. The RCG remind me of attention seekers who engineer a situation so that we all have to sit up and notice them. Their politics are nationalist and opposed to anarchist ideas. They managed to get themselves into a situation where they are now able to demand that others support them.

Equally, I know we've got to defend free speech in the city centre. However, I worry that by turning up where they are people will assume we and they are one. Essentially we swell their ranks and increase their credibility. This is what they tried when the zionists turned up, wasn't it? Their reports had us all down as their supporters.

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Refused
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Dec 11 2004 21:10

I thought it was amusing how the SWP refused to support the M&S picket because a)they weren't in control, b)they thought it "was perceived as offensive to certain groups (i.e. Jews)" and c)they think there is more blame on the shareholders than the CEOs.

Also, regarding the PSC demo later on: how many fucking policemen needed to be there?! There were almost as much police as supporters.

P.S.

I'm sorry I forgot the lemon meringue, lucy. black bloc

lucy82
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Dec 12 2004 12:06

i don't think you are wrong, knightrose, i am deeply uneasy about this too, but the point is that the outcome of this has consequences for all of us. i stopped going to support the picket because i was spending my time trying to stop the people on the picket screaming abuse at the opposition (a rule they made themselves but seemed incapable of keeping too). it felt like two mobs fighting each other in front of some very puzzled passers by and i didn't want to be part of it. i felt very strongly their only chance was to be seen to be a peaceful picket. but now the police have upped the stakes again.

anyway, running rings around the police is always kinda fun. i've absolutely no intention of standing outside m and s and getting nicked. maybe we should make our own leaflet which is about freedom to use the streets for protest but not aligned with the politics of the RCG.

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Dec 12 2004 14:00
knightrose wrote:
Their reports had us all down as their supporters.

Its also the case in the past that the RCG, quite outrageously, have reported these pickets as being "attacked by fascists".

Not true, those counter-demonstrating were instead right-wing British Jews, complete with UK and Israeli flags.

Calling people fascists when they are not is an old leftie trick, but using that sort of term towards Jews is more than a bit questionable.

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Dec 12 2004 14:24

Something else I found amusing: I was informed that taking multiple pictures of policemen at demoes could have me arrested under the Terrorism Act. grin

I'm pretty sure he heard me call him a wanker under my breath as he walked away. 8)

spike
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Dec 12 2004 19:03

hi refused, i didnt realise til i talked to lucy afterwards that i met you there yesterday 8)

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Refused
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Dec 12 2004 19:49

Ah...so you were that policeman with the camera?!

spike
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Dec 12 2004 20:07
Quote:
Ah...so you were that policeman with the camera?!

yeah thats right roll eyes

lucy82
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Dec 12 2004 21:09
Quote:
being "attacked by fascists"

its does actually really irritate me too, the way people chuck the word fascist around as a label. it also makes it really easy for any opponents to ridicule anything you say.

it seems to have become a word to describe a way of behaving - basically pugnaciously and sometimes violently, rather than in any true meaning or context of the word.

does the fact that the police take multiple pictures of us at demos mean we can have them arrest themselves under the Terrorism Act?

i demand state protection from wanking, camera toting facists.

wink

knightrose
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Dec 13 2004 10:01

The advantage the left gain from labelling all and sundry as "fascists" is that it lets them stop thinking. There is an assumption that "fascists" are necessarily worse than "democrats" and that they must be jumped on. End of need to think. Time to get stuck in. And anyone who questions your motives or actions is obviously wrong and doesn't need to be listened to.

Mind you, some of the zionists I saw at M& S look like they'd be nicely at home in the BNP, NF or C18.

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Refused
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Dec 13 2004 13:26
lucy82 wrote:
[

does the fact that the police take multiple pictures of us at demos mean we can have them arrest themselves under the Terrorism Act?

i demand state protection from wanking, camera toting facists.

Well, I asked him why he was taking pictures and he said something along the lines of "gathering evidence in the event that if someone find this demo offensive or the material presented offensive then we can show them the pictures and say 'we don't think it is offensive' OR 'we agree...let's put the boot in'..."

Although he failed to explain why he was taking pictures of me earlier when I was nowhere near the exhibits.

I had half a mind to really make him uncomfortable with the gathering crowd and say, "is this about the colour of my skin? It is, isn't it?" (not that I thought it was). grin

lucy82
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Dec 13 2004 18:06
Quote:
I had half a mind to really make him uncomfortable with the gathering crowd and say, "is this about the colour of my skin? It is, isn't it?" (not that I thought it was). Mr. Green

hee hee.. it would have been fun to watch him get all flustered

Mr. T

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Dec 14 2004 10:51

I agree with the criticism of the group involved, but i still supported in their picket. Originally i got sucked in by mistake when i was doing an animal rights picket and then saw the 40 zionists attacking the M&S picket so i jumped in.

And this order has been extended to include all protests in the city centre in the xmas shopping season, the AR pickets have also been banned now in front of selfridges, i don't have the full details yet, but if i hear anything, i'll post it here.

knightrose
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Dec 14 2004 17:02

I think that's what happened to a lot of us. Not supporting the RCG, but turning up at times when they were under attack. Of course, the picket isn't solely RCG and does have a couple of regulars who are anarchs taking part.

It might be useful to have a discussion on the value of boycotts! I find them emotionally satisfying but am convinced they are pretty useless. (I'm not talking about your animal rights type picket here).

spike
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Dec 14 2004 17:11

but knightrose, its not really about the boycott IMHO, its about the right to protest.

i think the turnout on saturday was pathetic, only a couple of anarchists and none of the trots, the rest seemed to be part of the picket and there was only about 20people.

even the people who were doing the later palestine demo didn tbother to show up.