ASF organising in Sydney, Adelaide and Perth

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Lugius
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Dec 19 2012 02:53
ASF organising in Sydney, Adelaide and Perth

Over the past 12 months the Anarcho-Syndicalist Federation has been growing and is looking to build affiliates in Sydney, Adelaide and Perth. The ASF is looking to build on growing local affiliates in Sydney and Perth and the ASF affiliated industrial association, General Transport Workers Association (GTWA) in Adelaide and Melbourne.

If you work in the hospitality industry or in a call centre, the ASF wants to hear from you in anticipation of campaigns for wage justice in the new year.

To make contact with local affiliates in Adelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne, Perth or Sydney email:
info@asf-iwa.org

To make contact with General Transport Workers Association in Adelaide, Brisbane or Melbourne email:
info@asf-iwa.org

syndicalist
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Dec 19 2012 04:56

Good luck comrades!

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ites
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Dec 19 2012 09:12

Wage justice? The ASF should join forces with the ALP - they advocate a friendlier and less overtly exploitative version of capitalism too.

http://www.alp.org.au/agenda/standing-up-for-workers/fair-pay-equal-pay/

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ites
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Dec 19 2012 09:13

I'd recommend anyone interested in workplace justice (particularly where formenting resistance to the exploitation and autocratic hierarchies inherent to capitalist relations of production are concerned) getting in touch with anarcho-syndicalists.

The IWW might be a goer, just make sure you've never had mental health problems or know anyone who does, otherwise you may well find yourself purged - any claim they might make to the contrary about being anti-ablism notwithstanding.

redsdisease
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Dec 19 2012 17:02

Jesus Christ people. Can't there be one thread about Australian stuff that doesn't become a show of petty bullshit?

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plasmatelly
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Dec 19 2012 17:56

ites - what you're linking to is about as far away from the what people on the forum are about. If you've fallen out with someone in the ASF, well that's just life all over the world - and personally, I don't want to know.

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ites
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Dec 20 2012 03:39
redsdisease wrote:
Jesus Christ people. Can't there be one thread about Australian stuff that doesn't become a show of petty bullshit?

Well, I for one happen to be opposed to the wage system.

plasmatelly wrote:
ites - what you're linking to is about as far away from the what people on the forum are about. If you've fallen out with someone in the ASF, well that's just life all over the world - and personally, I don't want to know.

Yeah I agree, which is why I posted it. If you're not even going to try to act like you understand the point I was trying to make don't enter the discussion. As for your other comment let's just say I spent the last year signing up somewhere in the region of 50 new members to the IWW and getting out 4 issues of the IWW newspaper which ran to somewhere in the region of 12,000 copies. I was focused on getting the job done until other people started playing personality bullshit, so yeah, why don't you lecture me a little more about pushing my own shit on other people when you obviously don't know a fucking thing about me.

slootdewoot
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Dec 20 2012 04:15

are they meant to be .au email addys? I just got a DNS issue when I tried to email them off the bat

EDIT: they are..

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Dec 20 2012 05:37
ites wrote:
As for your other comment let's just say I spent the last year signing up somewhere in the region of 50 new members to the IWW and getting out 4 issues of the IWW newspaper which ran to somewhere in the region of 12,000 copies.

Many of whom incidentally have since gone AWOL, since those who claim to defend the best interests of the IWW spend more time being right and making a systematic effort to avoid any kind of grey area than actually maintaining the structure of the union (I know at least one branch which I spent quite a bit of time and energy helping to build up has collapsed).

This would also appear to account for the non-appearance of either the Spring or the Summer issues of Direct Action, which again illustrates the prioritising of being right and saving face over actually advancing the cause of workplace and social justice. A similar mentality would likewise appear to inform the apparent attempt by the ASF to pick over the bones of other people's organising work which certain members have done their utmost to undo through vicious rumour-mongering and overt bullying which one prominent member is on record *admitting to* - as it would the fact that the last issue of Organise came out the best part of 10 years ago (I helped to put it together) much less to say the fact that the ASF is so ill-prepared to take on new members and that they don't even have fucking dues cards (again I suggested this the best part of a decade ago, the idea was pooh-poohed).

As always though, and since personalities prevail over principle in Melbourne especially, little details like that general tend to slip down the memory hole and conflicts are conveniently put down to the isolated actions of disruptive individuals rather than the far more problematic, endemic and deeply-entrenched groupthink of vicious cliques who try to pass themselves off as social justice movements.

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ites
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Dec 20 2012 05:31
slootdewoot wrote:
are they meant to be .au email addys?

Is there any reason why the ASF is using the domain asf-iwa.org.au in particular? According to the IWA website the ASF isn't actually an affiliate:

http://www.iwa-ait.org/?q=sections

The IWA doesn't appear to refer to any organisation by the name of ASF-IWA on their website, though they do make the IWA connection explicit in the case of organisations like the FAU and the CNT-F. So why the discrepancy? I for one can certainly understand why the IWA might feel the need to keep the ASF at arms length.

As far as the discrepancy goes, maybe another good question would be why no one ever pulls the ASF up on it? Is it because they know that if they do they'll become the subject of bullying and vicious rumour-mongering?

As an Australian anarcho-syndicalist and someone who is very passionate about and committed to the idea of workplace and social justice I for one would definitely be keen on being a member of an IWA affiliate, and if the scores of ex-ASF members are anything to go by I'm far from being the only one.

This fact of the vast numbers of ex-ASF would I think seem to further support the thesis of personalities being valued over principles, much less to say entrenched groupthink functioning to weed out those who refuse to obey and revere the dominant personalities in the name of defending the "movement" from disruptive and anti-social elements. That this kind of groupthink seems to be spreading into the IWW merely compounds the tragedy.

akai
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Dec 20 2012 07:53

Ites, you are not saying correct information. ASF is affiliated to the IWA and this is written on the page labelled "Sections".

Also, this sort of game playing is very transparent.

In any case, IWA does not affiliate individuals, but unions. I haven't heard that IWW Australia wants to affiliate to IWA, nor that you want to join the ASF. So what you are saying is sort of pointless.

Also, the IWA sections should discuss what it feels about ASF at its Congresses and Plenaries and the result of this process will be reflective of what the sections think, not your internet speculation, far removed from the processes inside IWA.

slootdewoot
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Dec 20 2012 08:48

Akai, I believe ites thinks the difference here is between a "friend of" and an "affiliate of" the IWA.

Let's examine how that affected the ASF's aims:

" The ASF shall be affiliated, to and shall form, the Australian Section of the International Workers Association (IWA)."

ites, sounds like she hurt you real bad man wink

akai
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Dec 20 2012 12:55

Well, I can't go into too many details here, but I counted friends as affiliates. As far as the ASF aims are concerned, I find it normal. ASF was a section of the IWA. There was then some period of disorganization and the IWA thought at that time that its status should be friends until things are sorted out. So, if the ASF is up and running again, it may become a section again. It's very simple.

There is discussion in the IWA about Friends all the time. A couple of sections seem to favour the option that sections which are having problems go to the status of Friends, but a formal proposal has not been made, only one section announced that it may make one. In any case, unfortunately sometimes organizations go through ups and downs.

Anyway, the IWA Congress is still almost one year away, so any changes in who is a section of IWA will only occur then. There are a couple of matters pending.

Hope that is clear.

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ites
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Dec 20 2012 13:49
slootdewoot wrote:
Akai, I believe ites thinks the difference here is between a "friend of" and an "affiliate of" the IWA.
Let's examine how that affected the ASF's aims:
" The ASF shall be affiliated, to and shall form, the Australian Section of the International Workers Association (IWA)."
ites, sounds like she hurt you real bad man ;)

Pop psychology is childish Sloot and you don't know me from a bar of soap. Just because the ASF decides that it wants to affiliate to the IWA doesn't meant that it's going to happen. After the split the Melbourne ASF spent what seemed to me to be most of its time and energy trying to clarify what happened back when for the IWA, and they still couldn't sort it out even after the CNT-E sent out a comrade to try to get a first-hand grasp of the situation.

Common sense might have dictated that the best course of action would be to organise and then apply for affiliation on the strength of your constructive achievements, but then again if common sense was really that common we probably wouldn't even need to organise in the first place, would we.

It's my understanding that Friends of the IWA status isn't the same thing as a full affiliate.

akai wrote:
Ites, you are not saying correct information. ASF is affiliated to the IWA and this is written on the page labelled "Sections".
Also, this sort of game playing is very transparent.
In any case, IWA does not affiliate individuals, but unions. I haven't heard that IWW Australia wants to affiliate to IWA, nor that you want to join the ASF. So what you are saying is sort of pointless.
Also, the IWA sections should discuss what it feels about ASF at its Congresses and Plenaries and the result of this process will be reflective of what the sections think, not your internet speculation, far removed from the processes inside IWA.

Well you know what they say about throwers of mud Akai. Comments like that look a lot like bait.

Pointless is relative; you don't appear to be trying to understand the comments I was making so given you're not concerned that I know you care I can hardly be blamed for not caring about what you think you know, can I?

akai wrote:
Well, I can't go into too many details here, but I counted friends as affiliates. As far as the ASF aims are concerned, I find it normal. ASF was a section of the IWA. There was then some period of disorganization and the IWA thought at that time that its status should be friends until things are sorted out. So, if the ASF is up and running again, it may become a section again. It's very simple.

Well you know what they say about normal, when individuals have delusions they call it a mental illness, but when groups have them, they call it...guess what.

Yeah I was around during the 'period of disorganisation.' I'd be more inclined to call that the permanent condition given its internal dynamics and some of the personalities involved. From what I understand the ASF was a going concern up until the split with Jura and has never really recovered. It has far more ex members than current ones as I say.

akai wrote:
There is discussion in the IWA about Friends all the time. A couple of sections seem to favour the option that sections which are having problems go to the status of Friends, but a formal proposal has not been made, only one section announced that it may make one. In any case, unfortunately sometimes organizations go through ups and downs.

And sometimes they just stay down because people who should know better put personality politics ahead of principle, as generally seems to be the case around here.

akai
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Dec 20 2012 14:39

Ites said:

Quote:
Pop psychology is childish Sloot and you don't know me from a bar of soap. Just because the ASF decides that it wants to affiliate to the IWA doesn't meant that it's going to happen.

I think really some psychologist is needed here.

As I explained before, ASF is affiliated to the IWA. All sections and friends are affiliated and nobody in the IWA objects to the use of the name ASF-IWA because it is part of the IWA. As for whether or not its status in the IWA changes, that's not a question for speculation for you because you have no voice in the matter, not being from our sections. A motion is on the agenda of the Congress and people will vote. I do not speculate how. Our section will try to inform itself and will vote.

I don't think that internet innuendos such as the ones you are posting would play any role in anybody's assessment of what is going on.

slootdewoot
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Dec 20 2012 17:52

I didn't think my sense of humour was so bad... What I was kind of pushing towards is that, irrespective ofwhat happened, you sound like a petulant 15 year old after their first break up.

The head scratcher here is why you've spent x days (from posts I've seen, around 4 or 5 days) bitching about groups of three letters that you're not part of anymore. I guess from here, you can continue to push the idea that Melbourne is one giant suckhole of a cult of personality, or find some new friends.

Either way - there is a huge difference between critiqueing an organisation and its aims, and being butthurt.

redsdisease
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Dec 20 2012 18:19

http://www.iwa-ait.org/?q=sections

Move on now?

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ites
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Dec 21 2012 06:51
akai wrote:
I think really some psychologist is needed here....I don't think that internet innuendos such as the ones you are posting would play any role in anybody's assessment of what is going on.

Hang on, what? You imply that only a crazy person would ask questions of the ASF and then accuse someone else of making internet innuendos? Defensiveness 10/10.

akai wrote:
As for whether or not its status in the IWA changes, that's not a question for speculation for you because you have no voice in the matter, not being from our sections.

Winning hearts and minds: you're doing it wrong.

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ites
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Dec 21 2012 07:21
slootdewoot wrote:
The head scratcher here is why you've spent x days (from posts I've seen, around 4 or 5 days) bitching about groups of three letters that you're not part of anymore. I guess from here, you can continue to push the idea that Melbourne is one giant suckhole of a cult of personality, or find some new friends.. Either way - there is a huge difference between critiqueing an organisation and its aims, and being butthurt.

Not pushing the idea so much as posing a question. I'm inclined to consider it a fact for the most part myself (more a very small one though) but people should probably make up their own minds.

Surprisingly enough I have plenty and none of them have anything to do with the ASF either for similar reasons. I appear to be the target of pretty well orchestrated rumour-mongering so the way I see it I might as well speak up, which is interesting to the extent that it brings the wolves out of the woodwork.

Of course - but then by the same token there's a huge difference between being willing to hear criticism and suggesting that critics are suffering from butthurt because you don't happen to like what they have to say.

slootdewoot
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Dec 21 2012 08:49

Ites, I've been in Melbourne for 6 months, and yeah, there is a bit of that going on from what I've seen. Half weird acquiescence, half elitist kind of thing. Holier than thou, as it were. Is this endemic? I've been living rurally.

I'm not a member of the ASF, though I am interested in the campaign as I work in the call centre industry, and have been on a pay grade lower than my job since moving here. Sorry to disappoint.

I just thought your earlier remarks about the IWA wanting to keep them at arms length was at odds with their status ( I know, technically not affiliated,) as well as the ASF aims. You piqued my curiousity, as what you have said in this and other threads sounds like a lot to endure. I mean I could be wrong, going off their websites alone, but they seem to be pretty close to me.
,
But hey, if your the subject of rumour mongering, then that's pretty shit.

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Dec 21 2012 09:14

And none of this has anything to do with the thread, as usual. Steering every conversation back to Ites and his problems is quickly making this forum unusable.

The reason why no-one involved in dealing with Ites is chiming in is because Libcom and a public forum is not the appropriate place for it for obvious reasons.

Start a new thread or start a new group if you think it is a pressing issue.

akai
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Dec 21 2012 09:17

No, I am not implying that only a crazy person would ask questions. I like to ask questions myself. However here it is hard to get any sense of what particular questions you are asking and rather the "questions" seem like obsessiveness and innuendos. That's how I see your contribution to this thread.

As for the question about the ASF and IWA, I answered it twice.

I have no intention of winning either your heart or mind. My intention is to dispel the rumors you are creating on this website and provide more accurate information to readers about the ASF and IWA relationship, which was not as you suggested.

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Dec 22 2012 10:38
Lumpen wrote:
And none of this has anything to do with the thread, as usual. Steering every conversation back to Ites and his problems is quickly making this forum unusable.

We all have problems of one sort or another. Some of us choose to acknowledge that fact as I do and some of us choose to maintain the pretense that we shit rainbows.

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Dec 21 2012 19:58

ites - Akai is right mate. You aren't making sense and it reads like you have a personal vendetta against ASF.
You aren't getting anywhere and are only winding yourself and others up. Your rather snappy cartoon might be a good post to call it a draw? wink

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ites
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Dec 21 2012 20:06
slootdewoot wrote:
Ites, I've been in Melbourne for 6 months, and yeah, there is a bit of that going on from what I've seen. Half weird acquiescence, half elitist kind of thing. Holier than thou, as it were. Is this endemic? I've been living rurally.

I'm not a member of the ASF, though I am interested in the campaign as I work in the call centre industry, and have been on a pay grade lower than my job since moving here. Sorry to disappoint.

I just thought your earlier remarks about the IWA wanting to keep them at arms length was at odds with their status ( I know, technically not affiliated,) as well as the ASF aims. You piqued my curiousity, as what you have said in this and other threads sounds like a lot to endure. I mean I could be wrong, going off their websites alone, but they seem to be pretty close to me.
,
But hey, if your the subject of rumour mongering, then that's pretty shit.

I think it's endemic brother man. Just my opinion of course, happy to back it up with the evidence gleaned from experience in participating in what has ultimately turned out to be pretty rediculous on the whole shit. Anarchists wrapped up in a scene that doesn't really do much besides sit around and talk shit about outsiders can only end up giving in to elitism.

I worked in the call centre industry for a while. Pretty exploitative on the whole from what I remember. The ASF seems to be to do a pretty good job of maintaining a pretence of being something they're not on the ground which they make up for by rumour mongering about anyone who does anything constructive off the internet, as I did while being the delegate for the Melbourne General Memebership Branch of the IWW and editor of the IWW newspaper Direct Action until one of the dominant personalities of the ASF who is on record as admitting to only caring about bullying and harassment as a stick to beat his enemies with began a campaign of vilification against yours truly which contributed to my purging from the IWW.

Self-described anarchists in Melbourne spend a lot of time rumour-mongering and talking shit in lieu of contributing to the growth of the movement, which I agree is pretty shit. That is the only conclusion I find myself able to reach as a result of recent events.

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ites
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Dec 21 2012 20:13

And now for something completely different..

slootdewoot
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Dec 21 2012 20:48

I read they resigned though, and the offer from rats (if memory serves) seemed pretty reasonable, and at the very least is a pretty good starting point for mediation. My experience in Newcastle with socialists was much the same (purge-y, cult-y,). Still, there's plenty of good people around.

I think that even a pretence of power and a plan for a campaign is still a lot more than the vague as hell nuw campaign (and representation has been non existent so far. Two or three weeks, but in light of me being the only member at work, you'd think they'd be keen to return contact.)

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Dec 23 2012 04:45

Ben, just stop posting about this, that's all we ask. You've dominated threads on this forum with these same issues for months - if you can't reach a compromise with the people you have disagreements with, stop arguing with them - it's not going to get you anywhere, it's just unnecessary stress.

And your ejection from the IWW is done. Stop worrying about it. Just because you put in work to build the organisation, doesn't entitle you to immunity from complaints, or decisions of the branch in regard to your membership. Whether it's a personality cult that's responsible, or whether the actions of the branch are justified(neither are for me to judge), we don't need to hear about it anymore.

So far you've used facebook, email lists(including people's emails who you had no right to use for that purpose), this forum, and surely mediums I have no knowledge of, to communicate how you think you've been done-over. None of which has actually helped your cause, and is pushing away your support(e.g. me, and i've been fairly patient with it). I'd like to re-iterate that the letter that was written to Melbourne GMB vilifying your mental illness, was refused to be read out at the branch meeting by Tristan - the same branch which ejected you from the union.

We use this forum to engage each other and share ideas while being geographically separated. This is an international public space.
If you have running disputes with people in Melbourne - sort it out with them, sort it out in person, we don't want every thread de-railed with repetitive posts about it.

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ites
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Dec 23 2012 09:17
Rats wrote:
Ben, just stop posting about this, that's all we ask. I'd like to re-iterate that the letter that was written to Melbourne GMB vilifying your mental illness, was refused to be read out at the branch meeting by Tristan - the same branch which ejected you from the union.

We use this forum to engage each other and share ideas while being geographically separated. This is an international public space.
If you have running disputes with people in Melbourne - sort it out with them, sort it out in person, we don't want every thread de-railed with repetitive posts about it.

I'm well aware that TB refused to read that letter, which begs the question as to why he adopted its basic assumptions in his own defense later.

Of course having done work for the union doesn't make me immune from complaints, I never claimed otherwise, but while internal elists from which I've been removed are used to disseminate grey area-dodging garbage established on half-truths and cherrypicked evidence like the branch secretary's report libcom is one of the few forums I have in which to defend myself. As a general strategy I've tended to question the official version of events and point out the obvious double standards at play predicated on the idea that it's my fault for being upset about being vilified and stigmatised on the basis of no evidence and for trying to hold those who did so to account.

You don't want libcom threads derailed with the situation in Melbourne, that's cool. I don't want my organising efforts and my life derailed by people who claim to want social and workplace justice manifesting much of what they claim to oppose by demonising easy targets in the interests of perpetuating the convenient myth that the dysfunction in the local anarchist ghetto is due to disruptive individuals rather than the shitty internal dynamics of small groups who seem to care more about being right than helping the movement to expand and become more effective.

To my mind a more sustainable long term strategy would be to address the shitty dynamics of various groups around the place rather than to complain when people get fucked off about them by virtue of being fucked around by them and start making an active effort to do something about remedying the situation. While for my part it seems to me complaining about people talking about these kinds of issues sounds to me at least to some extent like wanting to blame them for acknowledging that they exist, there's probably also something to be said for letting things go and for recognising when there's more to be gained from moving on than from trying to defend, so to the extent that I need to do that I take your point that I probably should.