New ASF-IWA website

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rata
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Aug 20 2007 09:42
New ASF-IWA website

New website for Anarcho-Syndicalist Federation-IWA is up here: www.asf-iwa.org.au

It is sill being worked on, but looks nice...

jack white
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Aug 20 2007 11:08

it's a very clear layout - whats it done with?

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Joseph Kay
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Aug 20 2007 11:10
jack white wrote:
it's a very clear layout - whats it done with?
Quote:
Powered by Workers Struggle

grin

rata
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Aug 20 2007 12:00
jack white wrote:
it's a very clear layout - whats it done with?

I don't know. But I guess this guys had something to do with it, and could probably answer any technical questions...

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Anarchia
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Aug 20 2007 12:06

axxs rock grin

Mike Harman
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Aug 20 2007 12:17
jack white wrote:
it's a very clear layout - whats it done with?

drupal, same as us.

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Bilan
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Oct 8 2007 12:23

Looks good.
I iz interested!
Whats the deal with the ASN? Is it alive?
I've asked this before, I think...

jeremytrewindixon
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Feb 4 2008 00:58
Quote:
Whats the deal with the ASN? Is it alive?

Yeah, but fair to say its a bit vestigial at the moment. Get yourself a copy of Rebel Worker.

There is an "ASF-IWA" now? Last I heard the group claiming the title of ASF and claiming (falsely as I see it) to be the continuation of the ASF-IWA which split in 1992 was only a "friend" of the IWA not a section. The normal usage would require it to be a section before it called itself "ASF-IWA". This neo-ASF was formed for the purpose of affiliating with the IWA and not apparently much else. I hear ocasionally that it still exists but have never heard what it does. or seen any signs of its activity. And I live very close to the historical base of Melbourne Anarchism.

The whole quarrel is of course very old now.

rata
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Feb 4 2008 01:22
jeremytrewindixon wrote:
The normal usage would require it to be a section before it called itself "ASF-IWA".

Really? Could you please provide us here with the copy of the "Normal usage handbook", since it's obvious we need it. I never knew of that "normal" usage. In fact, all IWA Friends organizations are using it that way. We need to get them in order fast.

jeremytrewindixon wrote:
The whole quarrel is of course very old now.

Hence you felt obliged to bring it up with several smears in it. What a loser.

jeremytrewindixon
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Feb 4 2008 03:17

Well Rata, if all IWA Friends are failing to distinguish themselves from IWA sections then yeah, you do need to get them in order fast. I had heard the IWA was moribund but I didn't know the situation was quite that bad.

Of course, over there in Serbia, Belgrade, you are in a perfect situation to be clear in your own mind what statement about Melbourne Anarchists is or is not a "smear". It is just when we get beyond your mind that the problems start. For example in your happy fantasies the "ASF-IWA" is no doubt a significant organization that brings credit on the IWA and the Anarchist movement. As I recall that is what they used to spend a lot of time telling people overseas; and not doing a lot else. If there is a Melbourne "ASF-IWA" person around then please do post something about what you are up to. I might be able to lend some support! Stick up a few posters for you! Its a pretty safe offer to make because all the neo-ASF ever was was a Potemkin village to look like an IWA section. This simple fact has slowly filtered through the Melbourne Anarchist
community at least, and apparently elsewhere in Australia too. But over there in Belgrade you are free to think what you like......I'm not even really directing this post to you but to any comrades in Melbourne who have let the "ASF-IWA" discredit class-struggle Anarchism in their eyes.

It is an old quarrel. I find it a bit scary to note that the split was nearly 16 years ago. I'd be glad to tie it off. But the issues it raised remain current. The split in the ASF was a huge blow to class struggle Anarchism in Australia, a blow from which it has not recovered. Unlike some I have no need to be ashamed of my part in it or to lie about what happened.

I have ideas about what we should be doing now which I share with whoever will listen. Battling for the IWA franchise doesn't feature in them.

jeremytrewindixon
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Feb 4 2008 03:31
rata wrote:
Could you please provide us here with the copy of the "Normal usage handbook", since it's obvious we need it.

OK.....I've now officially wasted more time on rata's post than it deserves but for the handbook you request why not look up the IWA website? You will see that the CNT for example is listed as the CNT-IWA but none of the "friends" are so listed and specifically not the ASF. Why doesn't the neo-ASF explain that the IWA has got the name wrong, huh? If they call themsleves the "ASF-IWA" why are they not so listed on the IWA site?

You needn't bother to answer. This tiresome web of deceit is the signature of the neo-ASF. It is important to them that people believe they are a section of the IWA because they need the validation. They need the validation because they are not doing anything to validate themselves.

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OliverTwister
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Feb 4 2008 11:21

MJ are you just trying to stir shit? I mean, i think its good that this discussion is happening (I for one know very little about the situation in Oz), but I don't feel like i need to egg it on with what looks like a pretty sarcastic remark. Apologies if i've misunderstood.

The history section on the ASF website is pretty good, but it only goes to 1988. There is no information about any current activity - Jeremy's theory that ASF is one person in Melbourne seems like it could be plausible (as opposed to say the ASN, who have two monthly papers which can be downloaded online). I'm not happy saying this, it would be great to be wrong.

Finally, a friendly suggestion for Rata and other IWA members on here: regardless of what the situation in Oz is, it seems like it is far too easy for a very small clique of people who want the credit of being in the IWA to form a tiny group in a large country and then "represent" that country, and use the IWA's name in any factional fights, while avoiding any practical activity and effectively blocking more practical and effective groups from linking up with the IWA. (I think the IWW has had, and to an extent continues to have, the same problem - witness the CSR in France trying to become the French IWW).

A simple solution could be to have an arbitrary numerical size which an organization must reach before they can apply for membership. 100 seems fair, with possible exceptions for small countries. Any group below that could be a "friend", BUT you ought to encourage more than one "friend of the IWA" per country and encourage groups which exist in the same country to work together. This certainly wouldn't solve all problems, and larger organizations can have their own share of problems. But this would help prevent small cliques of people who are only interested in the "franchise" from wrecking the potential of the IWA.

rata
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Feb 4 2008 12:22
OliverTwister wrote:
Jeremy's theory that ASF is one person in Melbourne seems like it could be plausible

That's just crazy. I am personally in contact with three people from ASF, and some of the ASF-ers are very active in helping IWA Secretariat in the work of establishing and perfecting new IWA informatics infrastructure.

Nobody said they are big organization, they are only IWA Friends organization after all, but to take for granted comments of the people who are in hostile relations to them is just not wise...

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OliverTwister
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Feb 4 2008 13:22

I wasn't saying that it was likely, just that it seemed possible.

I don't take anyone's comments for granted. However it seems like Jeremy is hostile to them at least partially because he thinks they are bad for the IWA. Without taking what he says for granted, that's something serious which should be considered.

For example, although I trust all of the WSA members I know, I didn't take what they said about SAN for granted; it was from reading SAN's "critical statement on the IWW" that I came to the opinion that SAN are (among other things) a small group of people who want the IWA franchise so that they can have higher ground when trying to pick fights.

Incidentally, as a supporter of the IWA, I was worried that SAN were going to be admitted at the 2006 Congress, which would have been the most disastrous thing that the IWA could do towards having any tangible north american support. I was glad to see that their bid was rejected.

Anyways, if people want to be in the IWA so bad, why don't they simply join the "external region" of the CNT? wink

syndicalist
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Feb 4 2008 15:00

Clean enough website.

jeremytrewindixon
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Feb 5 2008 03:27

Hey, I didn't say thatt the neo-ASF is currently just one person. I said I hear occasionally that it still exists but I don't hear anything about its actions. And I live an easy ten minutes walk from its post-office box.

Total inactivity apart from IWA-directed stuff was entirely consistent with what I knew of the neo-ASF when I had more to do with it. After the split it did come down to one person, not coincidentally the main architect of the split; his fellow splitters soon got bored and left. He did get together a new group of people later in the 90s; they were three groups at one stage, Melbourne Sydney and Perth, but it didn't last. I'd like to think people were disgusted when the Melbourne group knowingly and falsely accused an expelled member of being a police agent and that is why they left. (The matter is canvassed on the archives of the anarchosyndicalsm email group; the one that used to be iwa-talk.) The ex-member had made damaging accusations, at bottom of cult-like behaviour.

So, I don't doubt that there are three members and that they help the IWA Secretariat.. The support of the IWA Secretariat is what the neo-ASF is all about. So tell me, rata, do they ever swap anecdotes with you about current acitivities in your respective countries? And I look forward to seeing the IWA website amended to list the ASF as the "ASF-IWA".

Quote:
However it seems like Jeremy is hostile to them at least partially because he thinks they are bad for the IWA.

says OliverTwister.......well some ugly stuff has gone over, so there has been a personal element; but a lot of time has passed. And I never was personally hostile to neo-ASF members just for being such. It was more that the neo-ASF as an organization lived on hostility towards people around the asn among others.
But these days like I say I rarely even hear of them.

akai
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Feb 5 2008 09:53

Probably done in Drupal Barlow theme.

jeremytrewindixon
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Feb 6 2008 01:13

Now I'm going to quote myself, from this forum nearly a year ago. Then I'm going to turn my attention elsewhere for quite a while.

Quote:
Firstly, to answer Dublin Dave's question "what is the relationship between asn and the ASF?" or words to that effect; the answer is basically "not good, but no longer of enough significance to be very bad". There was an IWA affilliate called the ASF back in 1992 which split, roughly between Melbourne and Sydney, both sides claiming to be the ongoing entity. I featured in these events as did Mark. Mark was in Sydney, I was in Melbourne but sided when push came to shove with Sydney. The Melbourne group faded out of existence and then back in, although it was hard to see what it did except claim IWA membership. The Sydney group continued to exist as a network of likeminded activists but dropped the formal apparatus. An IWA investigator eventually came out and reported favourably to Melbourne. He was in my view very wrong to do this but we "Sydney ASF" took this, with I think some relief, as our licence to depart the IWA and changed our name to the asn. The "Melbourne ASF" has continued to fade in and out of existence, and has continued in my view to be almost entirely pointless. There was at one stage even a Perth and Sydney group, and there is something going on now I think because just the other week I ran into a young woman who said she belonged to "the ASF". But the days of practical hostility are I think pretty much over.
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@ndy
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Feb 8 2008 12:09

For what it's worth:

Afaik, the ASF in Melbourne meets regularly, but I've no idea what they do outside of this. Presumably, anyone's who's interested can contact them directly and ask. Jeremy obviously bears residual hostility towards the group, dating back to 1992. Perhaps one day he will recover.

Oliver Twister writes:

Quote:
The history section on the ASF website is pretty good, but it only goes to 1988. There is no information about any current activity - Jeremy's theory that ASF is one person in Melbourne seems like it could be plausible (as opposed to say the ASN, who have two monthly papers which can be downloaded online). I'm not happy saying this, it would be great to be wrong.

Plausible perhaps, but still incorrect. With regards the ASN, the only members I'm aware of are Mark in Sydney and Jeremy in Melbourne. No doubt there are others. Unfortunately, RW is no longer a monthly publication, but is produced bi-monthly. So too, Sparks.

asn
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Feb 9 2008 10:32

the ASN is a network and has an informal membership - based on practical work in ASN initiatives which focus mainly on the industrial front and the class struggle not cultivating micro bureaucracies or leftist pseudo tribal corroborees - the ASN has a core of about 5 or so and a periphery of between 20 to 30 - activity focusing mainly in Sydney in Railways, Buses, sectors of Maritime Transport and Fire Brigades - in recent years one area of important progress is in the Fire Brigade Union - a recent big action a week ago was a blockade of the city of sydney by fire trucks on behalf of enterprise bargain agreement demands- it appears to have been mostly blocked out by the media with only a tiny article on page 5 of the Herald newspaper which I noticed
mark

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Leigh
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Apr 13 2008 14:42

The Melboune ASF is organising the May Day Commemorative Picnic on May 1st at the 8-hour day monument at the corner of Lygon St and Victoria St in Carlton (use Google Maps). The ASF has organised this event on May 1st every year in Melbourne since 1986. This year there will be a public meeting to be held at the International Workers Club building located at 62 St. George's Rd. Northcote (use Google Maps).

Is this 'current' enough for you, Mr. Twister?

P.S. For all you dedicated class-struggle anarchists and anarcho-syndicalists in Melbourne, come and help us paint, refit and refurbubish our new office at the IWC building starting 10am, Tuesday, 15 April 2008