Response to With Sober Senses

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With Sober Senses
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Mar 8 2013 02:58
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Then you pretend that you didn't receive any information from axxs about Domino's campaign. You're full of shit.

I actually forgot about the contact. I contacted axxs this morning to pass on information to the contact for the upcoming May Day conference

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Mar 8 2013 04:49
With Sober Senses wrote:
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Then you pretend that you didn't receive any information from axxs about Domino's campaign. You're full of shit.

I actually forgot about the contact. I contacted axxs this morning to pass on information to the contact for the upcoming May Day conference

Seriously? neutral Can you see the issue that others are seeing in this?

You forgot about the contact, which was a number of emails, but hear about how the campaign is a 'joke' from people and it doesn't kinda spring to mind?

You lecture in politics or something along those lines at the uni, you write books on shit around the subject of class or something apparently, you as a marxist give lectures at an anarchist conference, yet it kinda slipped your mind to mention to them you actually did contact us and we totally supplied you with everything you could want? Stated if you needed anything more just contact us? We are friendly and totally open to you even tho not anarchist, yet you forgot?

Then you are constantly raising how you are hearing this is a 'joke' thing online? How this is being presented as one of the largest radical unions etc and you forgot about your contact with it?

I presume then when you have heard it being said by these people, you haven't said a word about any contact and evidence to the contrary, as you forgot?

And you reckon we should be more open with people like you in regard what we are doing, our makeup, our contacts, etc etc etc and answer to you online about it? How exactly did we fail in that regard mate? We totally said online if anyone wanted to know more, simply ask us!! many people did, apparently some of those close to home chose not too, or if they actually did, forgot all about it.

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Mar 8 2013 05:52

A) I said it has become a running joke not that it was a joke
B) I did forget about that email but I have had conversations with comrades about it.
Look my entire original post wasn't about why I (or people like me, who by the way are people like me?) have to be included. It was an attempt to suggest why I thought the ASF X conference didn't get much traction. Part of this was both a common understanding of the nature of the Dominoes campaign and the success/failure of the ASF to change this understanding. But you think it is going swimmingly apparently. Why get so worked up then?
When there is a big international call out and when a new union is formed and yet when what people see is a picket of two people and then silence what would you assume them to think?

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Mar 8 2013 10:17
Lugius wrote:
How about taking a stand against violent intimidation. By doing nothing, you tacitly condone it. At least the Melbourne IWW took a stand against harassment.

Untrue; the Melbourne IWW has a harassment complaint from late August which is still outstanding (ie mine). Never let the facts get in the way of an opportunity to slander someone who contradicts you too much though I always say.

With Sober Senses wrote:
Why get so worked up then? When there is a big international call out and when a new union is formed and yet when what people see is a picket of two people and then silence what would you assume them to think?

Good questions.

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Mar 8 2013 12:18

admin: links containing real name redacted, don't reveal personal information

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ites
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Mar 9 2013 02:43

^ Ignored abovementioned issue, poster is the individual the complaint was being made against. I have prepared commentary on the findings of the appeals committee, which appears to have been so incompetent that it failed to understand even that it was an appeals committee. PM me if you're interested in the facts that were left out, which were most of them.

Also, why is my full name being posted in this forum?

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Mar 9 2013 00:29
Lugius wrote:
I don't a shit what your class background is - you or anybody else. I take people as they come. I didn't join the MAC or the ASF to make friends. You are happy to presume with regard to others but don't like it when a presumption is made of yourself.

Lugius mate (I feel I should join in the totally insincere use of mate on this thread) I'm very surprised to see you say you didn't join MAC or ASF to make friends because your sunny disposition on this thread and others indicates to me that you are a bloke who makes friends easily.

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Mar 10 2013 08:49
With Sober Senses wrote:
A) I said it has become a running joke not that it was a joke

Did you do anything at all to change this perception having contrary information? Obviously not if you are still putting it forward, and people like happyanarchy that are too ready to state it have both no idea of basic anarchist practices like a congress, nor the reality of the campaign. Assaulting people trying to work with his group, something that led to them ending up in hospital with a potentially life threatening injury isn't really a good way of finding out either.

You did contact us and ask us about it, to which we gave you a mass of information, but we aren't up to date with the running jokes of people that we never see or hear from, after making massive call outs that folk from interstate and around the world get involved, contact us etc etc and have no problem doing so. Yet hear absolutely nothing from any group in Brisbane other than folk from the BSN, some that are in IWW for sure, come to one of the weekly protests. I also understand people can be busy with their own stuff, we never held it against them, why should we? People can be busy, but it's damn hard to get people involved that know about it and don't do anything, it's not our job to make people come along. We can ask for solidarity, it's up to them to actually show it.

Stating that we are putting forward something that wasn't there is bullshit. We said how it was and got a result as we are part of an internationally organised revolutionary union. That's WHY we got a good result from calls for solidarity from outside Brisbane.

We stood in solidarity with our members who are drivers, and the members of the GTWA that are drivers. We called on our union for help and we got it from many many groups. It's a shame that those in Brisbane calling it a joke never even spoke to us or asked about it. Why do that? I don't understand the mentality. If this shit was going on in another anarchist group we would be right in contact, offering what we could. We wouldn't be sitting back bitching about numbers or the lack of knowledge we had handed to us. coz thats pretty fucked up. Personally if I heard something like what you did, I would contact people involved as best I could before putting it out on multiple websites making a dick of myself. I suppose being in easy reach on FB as friends was too hard.

With Sober Senses wrote:
B) I did forget about that email but I have had conversations with comrades about it.
Look my entire original post wasn't about why I (or people like me, who by the way are people like me?) have to be included. It was an attempt to suggest why I thought the ASF X conference didn't get much traction.
Part of this was both a common understanding of the nature of the Dominoes campaign and the success/failure of the ASF to change this understanding. But you think it is going swimmingly apparently. Why get so worked up then?
When there is a big international call out and when a new union is formed and yet when what people see is a picket of two people and then silence what would you assume them to think?

I have never said it was going swimmingly, did I? Can you point it out? I have stated even before that we have had ups and downs, we have never denied downs at all! We have never ever stated that it was smooth sailing quite the opposite. We had to call on ASF-M for help when industrial talks with Domino's and the SDA failed. we posted that they failed.
ASF-M worked on the project as best we could and it was hard yards. We have worked hard for months on different aspects.
We called on IWW Brisbane for help, and I ended up in hospital for doing so.
We had to call on our wider union for international support as we were getting no where!

We aren't doing shit to over inflate something. We said it how it was, and to be honest, if your contacts think it's a joke it's because they aren't doing shit.

Now you point at the support we got, the groups that came in solidarity both nationwide and internationally because of the power our union can call on, a union that does the same for a single employee as we did with protests here in Brisbane and Melbourne for a polish worker who was having hassles at his workplace, with video footage uploaded, reps dropping in at Roche chemicals in Melbourne and here in Brisbane handing over letters of demand and solidarity to the bosses. We understand TOUCH ONE, TOUCH ALL. Numbers mean shit to us be it one or a million, we fight as a granite block for our comrades.

If I saw a picket of 2 anarcho syndicalists in my home town standing up for workers in the face of this shit and I'd known about it (and there was more than that, just not in the shot as people stood back and 2 where in the store at that time). I would feel ASHAMED that I wasn't there, I wouldn't be pointing at them and calling them a joke.

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Mar 10 2013 08:40

Where were you WSS while we are at it?

You knew that workers were fighting for their wages ... where were you?

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Mar 10 2013 11:51

bastarx wrote:

Quote:
Lugius mate (I feel I should join in the totally insincere use of mate on this thread) I'm very surprised to see you say you didn't join MAC or ASF to make friends because your sunny disposition on this thread and others indicates to me that you are a bloke who makes friends easily.

bastarx mate. Be surprised. Be very surprised. I felt that as WSS initiated this form of address (see post #43 on the 'towards federation anarchist conference') I would reciprocate mate. I think a more appropriate description than 'insincere' would be 'sarcastic' which appears to be the tone of your post. Sarcasm being the highest form of humour as it requires a great deal of wit and imagination - I always say!

But jesting aside, I was attempting to make three points; a) class identity, sensibility, attitude and culture is more important than class backgound. b) I join anarchist groups because I want anarchist revolution for totally selfish reasons not because I experience an inability to make friends or am I looking for a ready-made friendship network c) illustrate WSS's hypocrisy with regard to presumption.

If you read the other thread (TFAC) I am positing an anarchist federation as a primary locus of organisation over and above 'networks of affinity' ( = mates-based cliques). It is precisely these 'networks of affinity' that enable and protect some of the truly appalling behaviour and personal conduct of self-proclaimed 'anarchists'. While it is true that an anarchist federation can't guarantee that this kind of behaviour won't happen, it can take just and effective remedial action.

It is one these same 'networks of affinity' that WSS is quoting as his primary source of evidence (mates whose names are withheld) supporting his claim that the ASF was misleading everyone who supported the call for solidarity with the Domino's campaign.

As for my sunny disposition, well, someone has to be. If we all had the same disposition the forum would lack diversity.

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Mar 10 2013 13:47
Quote:
I don't understand the mentality. If this shit was going on in another anarchist group we would be right in contact, offering what we could. We wouldn't be sitting back bitching about numbers or the lack of knowledge we had handed to us. coz thats pretty fucked up. Personally if I heard something like what you did, I would contact people involved as best I could before putting it out on multiple websites making a dick of myself. I suppose being in easy reach on FB as friends was too hard.

I did talk to people on the first picket. I talked to them again recently. And one of them told me how workers from the shop came up to them and asked them what it was about because they had no idea what was going on.....
Look this back and forth is pointless. I have said what I wanted to say. My OP in this discussion was meant to be in good faith. You don't want to listen well fine. I have sent you an email about the upcoming MayDay conference and if your contact ( who is a relation of a Dominoes work right?) wants to pass on that information I think that can be productive. Otherwise lets see what actually happens in reality. Let that be our judge.
On the question of the the Federation good luck. I think we need to invent new ways of class organisation and I hope this is a positive experience.

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Mar 10 2013 13:49

And where was I? I was making sandwiches for the building workers who were out for 8 weeks and organizing a benefit concert.

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Mar 10 2013 14:29

With Sober Senses and the Domino's Campaign

Chronology of Events

3 May 2012 - ASF Secretary (then based in Brisbane) notifies the ASF-M by phone that a member of ASF-B working at Domino's as a pizza delivery driver has had their wages cut arbitrarily by 19%. ASF-B are planning to organise a protest demonstration at DPE Australia & NZ Head Office at Sandgate Rd, Albion, Q.

13 May 2012 - ASF-M resolves to fully support ASF-B and acknowledges the dispute as conducted by ASF-B. ASF-M decides to organise protest demonstrations at Domino's outlets in Melbourne.

14 May 2012 - ASF-B holds protest demonstration at DPE Australia & NZ Head Office.

19 May 2012 - ASF-M holds first protest demonstration at DP in Flinders St. Melbourne CBD with support from the MAC and the Workers Solidarity Network (WSN).

26 May 2012 - Protest at DP in Grattan St. Carlton.

9 June 2012 - Protest at DP in Carlton and West End.

16 June 2012 - Protest at DP in Carlton

22 June 2012 - Protest at DP in Woolongong organised by IWW

23 June 2012 - Protest at DP in Spring Hill and Flinders St.

29 June 2012 - Protest at DP in Woolongong organised by IWW

30 June 2012 - Protest at DP in Carlton and West Wodonga

7 July 2012 - Protest at DP in West End, Flinders St. and Lavington.

16 July 2012 - Support demonstration outside FWA office in Melbourne while FWA Commission hearing in progress. DPE representative announces $1 wage rise as a measure of good faith of DPE.

A total of 15 protest actions in Queensland, Victoria and New South Wales between 14 May and 7 July as a result of ASF-B initiated campaign. As a result more delivery drivers join and are encouraged to form their own industrial affiliate. GTWA founded on 16 July in Brisbane. ASF appeals to IWA to support an International Day of Action scheduled for 15 September 2012. ASF in contact with other friendly organisations. WSA offers to organise support in North America.

At 23:37 on 17 September WSS posts to LibCom:

Quote:
I am not sure that is true is it? The ASF formed the GTWA and then tried to recruit workers to it. I don't know how successful that has been.
All my information is second hand, hence I have been asking a lot of questions about clarifying some points that are at best unclear.

At 08:44 on 18 September WSS emails ASF Secretary:

> I am writing this email in a personal capacity and freely admit that my information is all second-hand.
>
> Firstly I want to start by saying I heard about your injuries and I hope you are feeling better physically and emotionally.
>
> I am writing this email because there seems to be a growing gap between how the Domino’s Campaign is presented internationally and what my comrades are telling me is actually happening on the ground. Internationally it is represented as being lead and developed by drivers themselves whilst it seems in reality this campaign is driven by the ASF with some passive support of a handful of drivers. I think the situation needs to be clarified. Firstly if your campaign ends up being successful isn’t it important to be truthful about its nature so lessons can be learnt? Also it seems many comrades globally are committing time and resources to a solidarity campaign based on an illusion of what is happening on the ground.
>
> I think these issues need to be addressed. I will continue to ask them in the most comradely manner possible and hope that they do not generate any animosity
>
> For communism

At 08:58 on 18 September WSS posts to LibCom:

Quote:
Hi All considering the time and effort that comrades around the world have put into this, I think it would be appropriate for comrades in the ASF and GTWA to clarify what I consider to be some important questions: what is the actual level of participation and self-activity of Domino's workers in this campaign and has the pay cut been instituted in a uniform way or on a franchise by franchise basis? The first question is more important than the second.
The only real report we have received was from comrades in Wollongong and it makes sober reading.
I think that there has become an increasing gap between the representation of what is happening and what is really going on. For example did the 'solidarity meetings' actually happen - or were drivers just leafleted?
cheers
Dave

At 11:38 on 18 September redsdisease posts to LibCom:

Quote:
All of your posts seem to indicate that you don't believe the ASF has members who are Domino's drivers. Since they have been claiming from the beginning that this campaign has been initiated and directed by Domino's drivers, do you have any information claiming otherwise? If you do it would be great of you to let people know, since, as you said, folks have put in a lot time and effort supporting this struggle. If you don't, then I don't understand why you keep making these suggestions.

At 11:56 on 18 September WSS posts to LibCom:

Quote:
Hi Redsdisease. I have chosen to use this tone because things in Brisbane are pretty acrimonious and I wanted to give the comrades in the ASF a chance to clarify what is going on. I have written to an ASF comrade to this end. My understanding ( and lets be clear I have not attended the pickets and everything I know is from comrades who have) is that whilst some drivers may be members of the ASF this campaign has had minimal input by drivers themselves, beyond some passive expressions of support. My understanding is that there has been little on the job activity by drivers as part of the GTWA ( who knows what these drivers are doing themselves everyday in other forms).

I think that the ASF comrades will probably want to argue against this, and I think they should. But at the moment the representation of what is going on and the reality seems far apart.
cheers
Dave

At 16:42 on 18 September WSS posts to LibCom:

Quote:
To be overt then, I'll repost a comment a made at slackbastard

Quote:
I have heard a number of different stories.
There is the promoted version which sees the GTWA arising out of the self-activity of the workers themselves and these are the people driving the campaign.
There is what I have been told by a comrade in the ASF which acknowledges that there are different levels of activity and passivity in the campaign but is generally positive about it all.
There is what I have been told by comrades in the BSN (Brisbane Solidarity Network) which says that it is non-driver comrades in the ASF that are the real force in this campaign and whilst some drivers may support these efforts they are very passive.
There are the photos of the pickets in Brisbane which (apart from the 1st one) seem to be made up of two people (and a third holding a camera).
cheers
Dave

Reading this carefully, it is clear that WSS is relying on the hearsay of people not involved in the ASF-B or the GTWA whilst acknowledging that he had emailed the Secretary of the ASF. But does not mention that he was given the contact details of delivery drivers so that he might find out for himself - an option he chose not to excercise. Despite being challeged to put up or shut up on the 'international day of action thread' i.e. produce some evidence, none was forthcoming.

At 10:10 on 7 March WSS posts to LibCom:

Quote:
But part of this antipathy is that at least with people I talk to no one really believes the claims around the Dominoes campaign. To the point that it has become something of a running joke. Now if we are wrong and this is actually the struggle that the ASF claim it to be then I think you at least need to know that the usual reply to our objections - you say 'Oh yes it is' - isn't actually convincing anyone and you perhaps need to think about that. Lugius' reaction to me on this thread certainly didn't help.
You also need to consider the history of Brisbane. Considering the damage that Brisbane's most famous anarchist caused through years and years of bullshit (including an old comrade losing his life savings) people up here are really sensitive about that stuff. At whilst I know that MAC and ASF are formally separate organisations since the same people are involved if you want this to be successful up here you really need to consider things beyond the weather.
I hope these comments are taken in a if not 'friendly' at least a comradely way
cheers
Dave

There's nothing friendly or comradely about this. This is just hostility. That it was posted to 'towards federation' thread suggests hostility to an anarchist federation with a crude attempt to link the MAC with deceptive behaviour by 'anarchists' in Brisbane.

At 18:47 on 7 March axxs posts to LibCom:

Quote:
In regard the Domino's campaign seen as a joke, how disheartening is that to the drivers involved? I put you DIRECTLY in contact with the workplace involved mate. I gave you the name and phone number of a contact from one store. This person is organised with 18 drivers at the time of the first hearing, more since then.

At 19:19 on 7 March WSS posts to LibCom:

Quote:
Did you? To me? When?
I honestly don't remember this.

Give us a break. WSS accuses the ASF of dishonesty without a skerrick of evidence beyond the hearsay of others presumably hostile to the ASF and tries and pass it off as a genuine inquiry despite being provided with information by the ASF Secretary with which he could have found out for himself and then six months later, claims he does not remember. In addition to that, he re-raises the issue on a thread about anarchist federation in an apparent attempt to derail it.

Enough.

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ites
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Mar 11 2013 01:14
With Sober Senses wrote:
And where was I? I was making sandwiches for the building workers who were out for 8 weeks and organizing a benefit concert.

Come on comrade, we all know that's nowhere near as revolutionary as slanging on the internet.

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ites
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Mar 11 2013 01:30
Lugius wrote:
Give us a break. WSS accuses the ASF of dishonesty without a skerrick of evidence beyond the hearsay of others presumably hostile to the ASF and tries and pass it off as a genuine inquiry despite being provided with information by the ASF Secretary with which he could have found out for himself and then six months later, claims he does not remember. In addition to that, he re-raises the issue on a thread about anarchist federation in an apparent attempt to derail it.

In fairness, all I've ever seen WSS do was dare to express doubts and ask questions. I just skimmed that entire message and I couldn't see the word 'dishonest' or 'dishonesty' anywhere. You appear to have been the only one who arrived at that particular conclusion. Getting defensive about your actual or perceived lack of honesty and then building up and attempting to tear down a strawman by putting the onus on WSS to disprove something you haven't established invokes not one but two logical fallacies as far as I can tell.

To do that once might be forgiven as a mistake, but to do again, well - you know what they say about making the same mistake twice. That seems particularly true given that you do so in the name of defending your capacity for honest and forthright conduct.

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Mar 17 2013 14:25

I come back to this thread, 32 new posts and I read the whole thing!

@WSS: I think there's a lot of discussion that is best had face-to-face, context being key. I'm still confused about why the ASF-B wanted to inform you about it. Local flavour, I guess

I don't know about this internal ASF stuff about conferences etc. I agree that the Domino's dispute was significant and should be discussed more. I would hazard a guess and say that, of the members that I do know, most do not prioritise gathering and presenting information in consumable ways (more's the pity).

Is the other thing about the XXXXXXXX guy about some missing funds? I understand that might sharpen some critical faculties in a fairly immediate way, but it's a long bow to draw between that, the ASF and proposals for organisation. I think it's unfair to try and connect the things.

On a side note, I don't know if it helps anyone contextualise anything, but me and WSS have known each other for awhile. It's this whole weird thing about being capable of respecting each other even if we have different ideas. I promise that I take it as comradely, but not being aware of the local stuff makes it a bit difficult to penetrate.

Getting back to Brisbane, I find it appalling that the beating (and hospitalisation) of axxs has been characterised as being something domestic, and has then been relegated to a sphere where this kind of violence is acceptable or viewed as a bit icky if it is made public. Needless to say, I think that is a fair amount of bullshit. Putting it aside for the sake of an appeal to unity is unacceptable. The best way to resolve it is a fair and open process of accountability and it limits the damage done by "drawing people in".

Kuro wrote:
I'd also like to clarify that the fight between these two happened months before at a pub, not at the summer school.

Yeah, but given the guy who beat axxs was actively involved (promoting it on here, for example) and it was no impediment to his involvement, I think I can be forgiven for connecting the events and viewing it with skepticism. In the absence of formal relations (*federation* cough), these things do go a long way in being divisive.

I appreciate that it can be difficult and confronting to deal with it, and that groups (like the organisers of BASS, or BSN) may not be equipped to do it. I get that, but to argue that "personal" somehow relegates the responsibility elsewhere is terrible.

I got through a whole post with saying the word "mate". Kudos me.

happyanarchy
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Mar 20 2013 02:03

Axxs you would do well to grow up, accept responsibility for your own actions, and stop blaming everyone else (and the weather) for you own situation.

I never blocked the IWW Brisbane from supporting your campaign. Fact is that 3/4 of local membership went along to the pickets regularly. I didn't for personal reasons (obviously) and said this. But also said everyone else should support the campaign if they choose to. And they did initially.

Anyone who goes back through the Libcom forum threads will see that you spent the entire time denegrading the IWW. Between that and the fact you were publically lying about having Domino's workers as membership to the ASF lead to others in Brisbane drifting away from your campaign.

You are just throwing around some sort of victim/persection complex to avoid facing the facts of your own behaviour. And it is tedious.

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Mar 21 2013 13:19

You… you are actually saying that the person you inflicted life-threatening internal injuries upon has a "victim/persecution complex".

…Is this a Queensland thing?

happyanarchy wrote:
Between that and the fact you were publically lying about having Domino's workers as membership to the ASF lead to others in Brisbane drifting away from your campaign.

I put it to you that you have zero credibility on this issue due to your actions. That you use personal attacks is unconscionable, given the context.

The legitimacy of the ASF's claims can be deduced by them getting a seat at the table at FWA, as they have argued. That seems reasonable. Your argument does not and is self-serving.

For the accusation you put to be true, axxs would have had to be aware of the situation through some unknown process and, without participation from those affected by it, magically secure better conditions for reasons that are unfathomable. Which sounds more likely? That a small number of people joined the ASF based on existing affiliations, and a few more join when it looks like it's going well with no big risk involved, or that it is all made up and axxs blagged his way into FWA?

As for "others in Brisbane drifting away", I couldn't say. It is just as likely that this could be due to other factors, such as hostility/conflict, reliance on goodwill, the campaign itself winding down, parochial prejudice and so on. It's always disappointing when anarchists refuse to show ongoing solidarity with a local dispute (or inflict grave injuries upon others), but it seems the ASF managed to get on without support from some quarters of the anarchist scene in Brisbane. This would seem to indicate that a lot of things are possible when anarchists are outward-looking and capable of working in international concert.

Given the amount of international solidarity shown, and the obvious benefits this can have for anarchists in Brisbane and Australia in the future, it's surprising that it is apparently a point of division. I'm forming the impression that this is not a universally held position in Brisbane, though.

That leaves the question of whether the ASF has capitalised on this success and if not, why not. It's a question best left to others and possibly a different thread, I would think.

StueySubvert
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Mar 21 2013 21:56
happyanarchy wrote:
Axxs you would do well to grow up, accept responsibility for your own actions, and stop blaming everyone else (and the weather) for you own situation.

I never blocked the IWW Brisbane from supporting your campaign. Fact is that 3/4 of local membership went along to the pickets regularly. I didn't for personal reasons (obviously) and said this. But also said everyone else should support the campaign if they choose to. And they did initially.

Anyone who goes back through the Libcom forum threads will see that you spent the entire time denegrading the IWW. Between that and the fact you were publically lying about having Domino's workers as membership to the ASF lead to others in Brisbane drifting away from your campaign.

You are just throwing around some sort of victim/persection complex to avoid facing the facts of your own behaviour. And it is tedious.

I'll start from the top.
"Axxs you would do well to grow up, accept responsibility for your own actions, and stop blaming everyone else (and the weather) for you own situation."
- you'd get far taking a leaf out of your own book.

"I never blocked the IWW Brisbane from supporting your campaign. Fact is that 3/4 of local membership went along to the pickets regularly. I didn't for personal reasons (obviously) and said this. But also said everyone else should support the campaign if they choose to. And they did initially."
- Regularly? Attendence from the IWW Brisbane membership occured on one night. I would hardly call that regularly. A once off if anything.

"Anyone who goes back through the Libcom forum threads will see that you spent the entire time denegrading the IWW. Between that and the fact you were publically lying about having Domino's workers as membership to the ASF lead to others in Brisbane drifting away from [the] campaign."
- If Axxs spent the entire time denegrading the IWW (I won't be so niaive as to suggest he hasn't used forums to voice his opinion on the matter, however), he would hardly of had the time to lead a vanguard of delivery drivers against the DPE.
- I'm not sure how many times we have to drive this particular point home to you (might have to puncture your lung with it?), there has never been any dishonesty about membership or involvement by drivers.
- I posit to you that "others in Brisbane drifting away from [the] campaign" is due primarily to the bullshit that you yourself have been spouting. (To be honest, I think we know where the 'running joke' was initiated - not pointing fingers or anything. Furthermore, your constant use of words that imply ownership - "your group", etc - really get me thinking..)

"You are just throwing around some sort of victim/persection complex to avoid facing the facts of your own behaviour. And it is tedious."
- Aha. You could tell us a story or two about avoiding facing the facts of your own behaviour. I'm still yet to read about/hear an apology regarding 1) unpaid money for work rendered, and 2) hospitalising someone (I don't even care about the back story here - you fucked up, put someone in hospital, now take responsibility for YOUR actions. - my use of ownership here is entirely legitimate, I own my actions, you own yours.)

I would like to state here that these discussions are certainly not characteristic of anarchism up here in Brisbane. Although some individuals seemingly have a decent pull in regards to popular belief. The people who are privvy to the situation between HA and Axxs are pretty sick and tired of everything.
I've been cornered on a number of occassions asking why i'm still with the ASF. Well it's simple really. The ASF has a systematic way of dealing with these issues. If the shoe were on the other foot (so to speak), and it were Axxs doing the bullshitting, he'd have a group of angry workers to answer to. It appears as if that is not the case for HA, and it is incredibly disappointing.

I've also (at the same time i was cornered about my involved with the ASF) been asked about where my allegiances lie - well they lie with Anarchism (not with the anarchist). And until these issues are resolved, and certain people swallow their pride and admit their mistakes, this isn't it.
I'm not calling for a 'lets move on'. Human psychology won't allow for that. This needs to confronted full on, and an end must be reached. If that means intervention incorporating members of the ASF-B and BSN (and the IWW for that matter) than so be it. We've spent far too much energy attempting to discredit one another.