The need to link up in australia and new zealand

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mikabill
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Feb 11 2007 04:50
The need to link up in australia and new zealand

after reading posts on the dismal organization of anarchist groups would it not be a good idea to start linking up and developing our own group?
bill

mikabill
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Feb 11 2007 05:40

PS just did an anarchist search on the web and all the links are broken so there is no anarchist movement of any substance here in aussie.

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jason
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Feb 12 2007 00:42

Following on from the discussion the Kiwis are having it looks like things are in a similar way all over. I was also thinking along the lines of the possibilities, practicality and relevance of a broader S. Pacific organisation. I think the first steps though should be an informal reading and discussion group to nut out where we are, what we want to do, and how to do it.

omar
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Feb 12 2007 09:54

how would you imagine a reading and disucssion group to nut out some sort of strategy? via an email list?

mikabill
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Feb 12 2007 10:52

i woul love an email list

yuda
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Feb 12 2007 21:37
mikabill wrote:
i woul love an email list

either myself or aketus could set one up through anarchism.org.nz or anarchy.org.au respectivly

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jason
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Feb 13 2007 01:01
Quote:
how would you imagine a reading and disucssion group to nut out some sort of strategy? via an email list?

Well we got this Oceania forum already so I don't really see the need for a new list. We could select some key texts and work through them like a reading group to see where we all stand on things. And I like the Kiwi's discusion on the other thread about the need for a group. I'd like to start discussing on similar lines about the need for a Pacific group coz a lot of issues are real similar and are couple of us in Aus are basically asking ourselves the same questions (not to mention the NZ working class is employed in Aus, whilst the Tongans and Samoans are employed in NZ, so what's the point of national borders when it comes to a group?).

anna x
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Feb 13 2007 07:19

I reckon jas is on the right track here. While I have no doubt that most of you have infinitely more experience than myself in these matters, the idea of a Pacific group is rather appealing, and with libcom already attracting people with a similar vision and broadly similar ideas on how to get there I think that it would be a natural thing for a group that avoided the lowest-common-denominator approach to come out of a libcom reading/discussion group. I too see the links between our countries and Australia as Western NZ wink
gregg :rbstar:

omar
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Feb 15 2007 04:56

Ok so lets start the reading discussion group then, how will we decide what to study?

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jason
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Feb 17 2007 00:26

My nomination would be some historical piece about a certain movement. That way, instead of starting with something overtly theoretical and getting too carried away, our theoretical outlooks would be revealed in relation to practice.

But having said that it looks like only the three of us that is interested so maybe now's not the best time.

mikabill
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Feb 17 2007 07:45

and so the beginning ends before it starts

yuda
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Feb 17 2007 07:53
mikabill wrote:
and so the beginning ends before it starts

That's the way it goes sometimes

Convert
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Feb 17 2007 09:25

At least give it a chance you dont know how many people are reading this thread only how many are posting in it. I'd be interested so long as it doesnt get to theorectical and detached from reality.

Spassmaschine
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Feb 17 2007 10:08

Indeed. I am one of these non-posting thread-readers. I'd also be interested in taking part in a South Pacific reading/discussion group if one eventuates

anna x
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Feb 17 2007 12:53

This is great. I think that both Convert and captain soap have made valid points... When I first checked out libcom I found alot of the discussions fairly intimidating so I was pretty much just lurkingblack bloc. Many of the discussions on this site still go over my head so I think that we should take it slow at first so as to engage others that are perhaps lurking at the moment and also not isolate any people new to anarchism who might not be totally familiar with concepts. Maybe someone out there in libcom land could give us a bit of a nod and a wink at some good texts to get us started? gregg:rbstar:

knightrose
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Feb 17 2007 13:18

As We Don't see It by Solidarity is a good text. Written a long time ago, but in many ways still relevant.
http://afed.org.uk/solidarity/awsiintro.html

mikabill
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Feb 18 2007 00:22

I found the text an eyeopener not for me so much but for people who are not political. When i was with the Socialist alliance i always felt uncomfortable with the god like status Lenin Trotsky Castro had.They too exploited the workers and became or wanted to become the rulers they themselves detested. A good text easy to read in point form. Its strange but many of the older texts for me make more sense then recent authors trying to write present day to fit ideology.
bill

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jason
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Feb 18 2007 02:22

Cool.

Link's not working for me now. I'll be back in a couple of days with comments.

Spassmaschine
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Feb 18 2007 07:09

If the link doesn't work, there's a copy of it in the Libcom library.

http://libcom.org/library/as-we-see-it-dont-see-it-solidarity-group

knightrose
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Feb 18 2007 08:46

Silly me, I put the wrong link. It should have been http://www.af-north.org/solidarity/awsiintro.html

omar
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Feb 19 2007 23:46

It's a pretty good introducvtion to libertarian socialism and what a libertarian socislist organisation should be doing:

"The task of the revolutionary organisation is to:
1)help give proletarian consciousness an explicitly socialist content,
2)to give practical assistance to workers in struggle,
3)and to help those in different areas to exchange experiences and link up with one another."

So pretty much the same goals as NEFAC
which their webpage summarises as:

"In NEFAC we think that this activity can be roughly divided into three different areas: [1] study and theoretical development, [1] anarchist agitation and propaganda, and [2]intervention in the class struggle."

So in essence I think our study should be of what practical benefit anarchist organisations can give to the different struggles we are involved in. So i'd recomend people check out some of the back issues of the North Eastern anarchist on NEFACs website (www.nefac.net) and maybe some other articles written by people within anarchist federations around the world.

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jason
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Feb 25 2007 03:49

Sorry all for the late reply. Just read it (rather quickly) and I like it a lot. I think its pretty lucid, concise and nothing really jumped out at me as dodgy politics - the reverse actually, I was nodding my head most of the way through.

I'd like to hear if anyone does have problems with any points.

Following that, if the discussion is going to limited to everyone saying they liked it, I'd like to hear people's nominations of an historical movement or something that we could discuss to draw out what we see as good and bad points in reference to our ideals (as broadly encapsulated by "As we see it").

mikabill
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Feb 25 2007 05:37

lets talk about the Green parties and their roots etc

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jason
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Feb 26 2007 00:05

Cool, sounds good to me. Anyone else?

If no objections, post up a summary that's not too long and we'll take a look.

Also, maybe we need to split threads but ideas on what a trans-Tasman/S. Pacific group would look like would be good. I think we're beset with a few initial problems: a) we mainly just e-met each other, b) are probably involved in a range of communist or syndicalist groups, c) in the early days will be too small and ineffectual to coordinate actions of any description.

So I would propose a pretty loose network of anarcho-communists at first that could maintain a website and aim for a monthly newsletter or what not to get out an anarchist perspective of current issues. Then see our things progress.

Would such a project be worth the effort involved? How many people would be interested?

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jason
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Feb 26 2007 06:18

OK kiddies, I've been playing around and come up with this little conceptual template:

x

We could have links to all the groups we like and/or are involved with. And a link to our commentary.

P.S. Libcom, I ripped off your star.

mikabill
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Feb 27 2007 06:35

its looks good Jason

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jason
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Feb 28 2007 08:38

Cool, but the actual website will no noubt evolve as people get involved. So we really also need some feed back about the questions:

Quote:
Would such a project be worth the effort involved? How many people would be interested?

And what sort of organisational structure are we looking at?

Where are all you lurkers?

Spassmaschine
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Mar 2 2007 00:48

Hey Jason,

Yeah the site is nice enough; it seems to me there are two angles we could be taking with the commentary/newsletter thing. We could either stick with just doing straight news/reporting on struggles that are currently going on, or we could give an analysis of various struggles/issues/things going on from an communist/anarchist perspective. I think the problem with both will be coming up with content: I'm not sure whether many of us are actually involved in much workplace struggle at the moment (indeed, i'm not even sure how many of us are interested in this thread) and so I think we could quickly end up with problems, as someone said a while ago on the aetearoa thread, where your publication/newsletter quickly dies as you exhaust all your sources of information and just end up repeating the same stuff over and over. Or you could go the way of Rebel Worker, where a large part of the publication is simply reporting basic news that isn't really of much interest to those not in the industry.

One the other hand, if we concentrate on offering anarchist perspectives on issues and events, we need to be quite selective of what we cover, so we don't get too spread out and unfocused, incoherent and activistoidy like some trot publication. However we shouldn't limit ourselves too much, or you end up making statements without much content, with something like MAC-G's newsletters, where you have something coming from the right direction, but doesn't say much more than "Howard sucks, so do the ALP, and so we need a general strike" with no real ideas on how to get there.

While I am interested in helping with the website/newsletter thing, I think unless there's more interest it is probably not worth it at the moment. Maybe we should concentrate on getting the reading/discussion list up and running, and then see what eventuates from that. How's that info on Green party origins coming along, Bill? wink

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jason
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Mar 2 2007 01:14

Good points soapie.

Re:

Quote:
One the other hand, if we concentrate on offering anarchist perspectives on issues and events, we need to be quite selective of what we cover, so we don't get too spread out and unfocused, incoherent and activistoidy like some trot publication.

To start with, I was thinking a real general, conceptual essay (not too theoretical/wordy) every month to form the bulk with maybe a few commentaries on whatever else is happening.

An example would be "an anarchist perspective on indigenous issues" or "why we don't vote" or "what it means to be working class in a high-tech service economy", etc, etc. The idea being that ideas of this type are seriously underepresented in the region and to get some nice critiques out that don't fall into the traps of the left (ranging from irrelevant liberalism, through to practical stuff like writing in academise), then it might be sorta catchy. That is to say it would be primarilay theoretical, but when I say theoretical I don't mean densely written irrelevant stuff, I mean a take on stuff that the average person says to themselves "fuck yeah". If there was, say, half a dozen of us, it would mean maybe writing two 1,000 word essays a year and a few paragraphs here and there about anything that's going down.

Spassmaschine
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Mar 2 2007 01:56

Yeak ok, nice idea Jason, a series of commentaries and short theoretical essays sounds fairly manageable even if there's only a few of us, and you're right, there is a huge under-representation of serious but understandable critiques and theory in the region at the moment.

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Steven.
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Mar 2 2007 12:05

Hey all, just to say good luck with this, and I'm really really glad libcom is being of help to you to get in touch with people and everything (first I thought maybe this thread was some nutty idea to build a massive fucking bridge or something)

And jason, go crazy with the star, but on a very petty branding note in any final version could you flip it or rotate it a bit or something? cos the 20 degree rightward lean is kind of our logo thing...