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freegan info

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powervacuum's picture
powervacuum
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Apr 26 2007 17:04
freegan info

Not quite sure if this belongs in 'organise' but yeah...does anyone have any information about good 'spots' [in london] for recycling/appropriating surplus/waste food or infact anything? Im looking for ways to stay fed [until the vegetable patch in our squat sprouts :-)] whilst remaining fully un-employed and off benefits. Is anyone else here into this sort of thing?

David in Atlanta
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Apr 26 2007 18:06

Now this needs to be in libcommunity, if anywhere! dumpster diving is ok for personal survival and such, but really doesn't have anything to do with organizing. groucho

powervacuum's picture
powervacuum
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Apr 26 2007 18:28

Well i was looking to do some networking with people into this way of life...trade information and such, maybe discuss creating better net resources to facillitate that, if there is enough interest. I should have explained myself better. I think liberating oneself from the labour market is a pretty important basic task for an anticapitalist [more than personal survival] and if more people are helped to achieve that, then maybe more people will be attracted to the cause? Living is the best propaganda and all that.

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Joseph Kay
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Apr 26 2007 18:31

so am i less of an anticapitalist if i'm still in the labour market?

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madashell
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Apr 26 2007 18:38
powervacuum wrote:
I think liberating oneself from the labour market is a pretty important basic task for an anticapitalist [more than personal survival]

Sweet suffering Christ.

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Jacques Roux
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Apr 26 2007 18:41
powervacuum wrote:
I think liberating oneself from the labour market is a pretty important basic task for an anticapitalist [more than personal survival] and if more people are helped to achieve that, then maybe more people will be attracted to the cause?

I think most people think exactly the opposite here.

powervacuum's picture
powervacuum
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Apr 26 2007 18:49
Joseph K. wrote:
so am i less of an anticapitalist if i'm still in the labour market?

Fuck no. But working definately cuts down on the amount of time you have for activism and really anything of interest...thats my experience of it anyway. An example off the top of my head...recent WOMBLES SOCPA protest that was on midday wednesday. More journalists than participants despite it being an issue of importance for loads of people. Obviously for some people what i am trying to do isnt going to be a realistic option and im aware that there are loads of employed people that give ridiculous amounts of time and energy to worthy projects. No offence ment.

Im getting the feeling this forum isnt the place for this.

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Jacques Roux
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Apr 26 2007 18:59
Quote:
Im getting the feeling this forum isnt the place for this.

You'd be right. I think you should read some of the old threads first wink

No one here is interested in that kind of 'activism' you are discussing.

Thora
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Apr 26 2007 23:04

Lolz.

Try bins though - the ones at the back of food shops. They're good for getting food from bins.

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jef costello
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Apr 26 2007 23:09
powervacuum wrote:
I think liberating oneself from the labour market is a pretty important basic task for an anticapitalist [more than personal survival]

personal survival often forces you into the labour market. Seems to me like the best way to stay out of it is a short length of rope and a long drop.

This would be a joke by the way.

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thugarchist
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Apr 26 2007 23:10
powervacuum wrote:
Joseph K. wrote:
so am i less of an anticapitalist if i'm still in the labour market?

Fuck no. But working definately cuts down on the amount of time you have for activism and really anything of interest...thats my experience of it anyway. An example off the top of my head...recent WOMBLES SOCPA protest that was on midday wednesday. More journalists than participants despite it being an issue of importance for loads of people. Obviously for some people what i am trying to do isnt going to be a realistic option and im aware that there are loads of employed people that give ridiculous amounts of time and energy to worthy projects. No offence ment.

Im getting the feeling this forum isnt the place for this.

So its the fault of people who work that the wombles scheduled their very important protest for a time no one would go? I'm confused.

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georgestapleton
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Apr 26 2007 23:33

Surely this is a wind up.

Especially seeing as the WOMBLES don't exist anymore so probably aren't calling demos. Perhaps I'm wrong though.

raw
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Apr 26 2007 23:51
georgestapleton wrote:
Surely this is a wind up.

Especially seeing as the WOMBLES don't exist anymore so probably aren't calling demos. Perhaps I'm wrong though.

Your right. The last demo WOMBLES called was January 2005. I think this poster is confused.

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Joseph Kay
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Apr 27 2007 08:34

powervacuum, just to say that people here who are critical of the 'stop working, become a full time activist' model of social change are often those who have tried it and come up against its limitations

powervacuum's picture
powervacuum
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Apr 27 2007 09:26
Quote:
Your right. The last demo WOMBLES called was January 2005. I think this poster is confused.

Probably. It was quite a while back, not 2005 though.

Quote:
Don't worry we'll take you in Dublin we've got this mad new idea about workers having power at the point of production, you're not allowed tell anyone though.

Hows that working out for you then? Obviously a good idea but has anyone actually put it into practice instead of just talking about it? Im yet to hear about any syndicalised factories in the UK.

Quote:
powervacuum, just to say that people here who are critical of the 'stop working, become a full time activist' model of social change are often those who have tried it and come up against its limitations

I would like to discuss this more as clearly noone except me gives a shit about freeganism. What are its limitations? What are the alternatives? Agitating in the workplace? Unionism?

Mike Harman
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Apr 27 2007 09:42

maybe this caused the confusion:
http://www.wombles.org.uk/article200704818.php

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Joseph Kay
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Apr 27 2007 09:48
powervacuum wrote:
I would like to discuss this more as clearly noone except me gives a shit about freeganism. What are its limitations? What are the alternatives? Agitating in the workplace? Unionism?

people may or may not give a shit about freeganism, but it's a lifestyle choice rather than a political act. skipping can save you cash and get you free stuff, but it won't change the world. of course, "it will free up time for other projects" - the question is, what projects? how do you see social change occurring, and who are its agents?

given as this is a libertarian communist/class struggle board, people tend to see capitalism as a social relationship and the working class as the potential agent of revolutionary change. this doesn't mean just in the workplace - by working class i mean all those without capital (property producing an income) on which they can live, so it would include the unemployed. thus, we tend to advocate organising on a class basis to defend and advance our immediate living standards and build our power as a class. obviously in the UK right now our class power is at a very low point, having been smashed in the 80s and fragmented since, and so the many practical initiatives are generally small in scale.

in terms of the alternatives, there's no consensus. there's two federations, the anarchist federation and solfed (which some see as a future anarcho syndicalist union like the old spanish CNT), there's the IWW trying to build industrial unions (and growing in some cities apparently), there's propaganda projects like libcom trying to agitate amongst the wider class and spread a sense of our own history and the idea of collective action which is alien to many ... but generally people here agree that full time activists martyring themselves on others' behalves is a dead-end, because revolution is the self-emancipation of the working class, no amount of freegans living off the waste of capitalism can do it for us wink

again, most people would reject the idea that we work because we 'choose' to. i mean yeah sure, we could be homeless or squat etc, but what a 'choice'! the idea that wage labour is freely chosen is a staple of capitalist ideology - we make the choice, but within social relations over which we have no choice, like 'choosing' to give your wallet to a mugger. guydebordisdead used to be into skipping and stuff, so he might have more to say

posi
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Apr 27 2007 10:43

That was a good post from Joseph K. Just to say, powervacuum, if you want to link up with other squatters, in terms of mutual aid, sharing information, etc., then people from the Advisory Service for Squatters run Squatters Practical Network meetings twice a month. I think that the details on their website are wrong, so give 'em a call. The place to get good veg of a morning used to be New Coven Garden Market, don't know if that's still the case.

If you enjoy squatting as a way of life, then keep on doing it - just don't believe that it's inherently more radical than other ways of living. Also, why on earth not take the dole?

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Tacks
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Apr 27 2007 10:48
powervacuum wrote:
Fuck no. But working definately cuts down on the amount of time you have for activism and really anything of interest...thats my experience of it anyway. An example off the top of my head...recent WOMBLES SOCPA protest that was on midday wednesday. More journalists than participants despite it being an issue of importance for loads of people.

what wombles socpa protest? wtf?

Sackparliament?

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Tacks
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Apr 27 2007 10:53
powervacuum wrote:
Not quite sure if this belongs in 'organise' but yeah...does anyone have any information about good 'spots' [in london] for recycling/appropriating surplus/waste food or infact anything? Im looking for ways to stay fed [until the vegetable patch in our squat sprouts :-)] whilst remaining fully un-employed and off benefits. Is anyone else here into this sort of thing?

into, what do you mean by into?

when i move to an area i sus out if i can get some free veg from anywhere near. Generally markets when they are finishing up - but its nice to have a few quid on you to give the stallholders for odds and ends - less rude. Like give them 20p for a box of avocadoes that you know was being chucked anyway (working out at 0.001 an avocado).

In london, go to borough market. Sorted.

There's notjing really to tell is there? If you have the chutzpah to leap into bins behind tesco's, do it. What kind of advice do you need, directions to tesco?

Or, get a job. Your veg patch is not going to provide, sorry to break it to you.

ftony
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Apr 27 2007 11:27

not that i really do it any more, here's a little tip for the more discerning skipper - turn up at Eat or Pret a Manger about 15 minutes before they close and buy the cheapest thing on the menu and start a nice conversation wit hthe person who serves you. they'll have lots of nice sandwiches that they generally just give away to whoever wants them if you turn up when they're sorting out what can be kept for tomorrow and what would otherwise go in the bins. a sweet smile always helps. smile

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Jacques Roux
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Apr 27 2007 11:35

Pret are meant to give all their left over food to charities which re-distro it to homeless people. Most of the other sandwich places have similar deals afaik.

I've never seen a supermarket which doesn't have its bins behind locked gates btw.

Caiman del Barrio
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Apr 27 2007 12:29
georgestapleton wrote:
Especially seeing as the WOMBLES don't exist anymore so probably aren't calling demos.

Or perhaps this demonstrates that they exist in all but name: the same characters, the same politics, the same focus on subcultural Crimethincers like the OP.

Another fine day for Raw. grin

ftony
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Apr 27 2007 13:01
Quote:
Pret are meant to give all their left over food to charities which re-distro it to homeless people. Most of the other sandwich places have similar deals afaik.

oh right. well i admit i only ever did it in Eat, but just kinda guessed you could do it with similar places too. Eat just literally got out their old stuff on the counter and would say 'right, who wants what then?'

ftony
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Apr 27 2007 13:10
Caiman del Barrio wrote:
georgestapleton wrote:
Especially seeing as the WOMBLES don't exist anymore so probably aren't calling demos.

Or perhaps this demonstrates that they exist in all but name: the same characters, the same politics, the same focus on subcultural Crimethincers like the OP.

Another fine day for Raw. grin

as someone who has spent a fair bit of time with ex-wombly people, i'd probably disagree. i think a lot of the central people are the same, and operate in similar networks, but there is a decent amount of theoretical and practical maturity i've seen within social centres, particularly the Vortex. i don't have first-hand experience of what the wombles did in their heyday, since i came to @ politics and London relatively recently, but from what i can tell (raw/CM, correct me if i'm wrong) people are increasingly trying to re-negotiate their positionality as anarchists and actually attempting to break out (if only perhaps with baby steps) of the crimethinc/dropout mode. the fact that it's mostly only the young kids who are masking up and squatting in dives and eating out of bins nowadays suggests that the wombles generation have realised that ghettos will not bring on class warfare. i think the next stage is for people like me to cut their silly long hair off and don non-holey clothes, but maybe that's just one step too far!! grin

ps. what's the 'OP'?

Caiman del Barrio
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Apr 27 2007 13:23

Yeah perhaps that was a little bit harsh in some respects. It seems that the WOMRADES on here at least pay lipservice to class struggle, which around the time of Beyond ESF was something they were pretty hostile towards. They can't really help their legacy, but it's the effect of time spent in subcultures with people for whom anarchism is more of a clique, a social ladder to be climbed, than a will to revolution.

I also find Raw's constant numbers game really noxious. In a time when anarchism is market icon and is pimped by all manner of crap liberal celebrities (Anti-Flag anyone?), I think he knows just how disingenuous such tactics are. Perhaps I would soften towards him if he accepted the relevance of Libcom (at least to British anarchists). I mean, he posts on here more often than I do.

Caiman del Barrio
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Apr 27 2007 13:25

PS OP = original post(er).

Thora
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Apr 27 2007 13:43
rkn wrote:
I've never seen a supermarket which doesn't have its bins behind locked gates btw.

Plenty are still unlocked.

Thora
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Apr 27 2007 13:47
Caiman del Barrio wrote:
georgestapleton wrote:
Especially seeing as the WOMBLES don't exist anymore so probably aren't calling demos.

Or perhaps this demonstrates that they exist in all but name: the same characters, the same politics, the same focus on subcultural Crimethincers like the OP.

Another fine day for Raw. grin

Alan, you call anything activisty 'Wombles', regardless of whether the people involved were ever in the Wombles or not. The London activist scene is small enough that pretty much everyone in it has been involved in a project with an ex-Womble/drunk in the same pub as an ex-Womble.

martinh
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Apr 27 2007 13:59

If you're so skint that even the normal markets are too expensive, there can quite a bit of food lying around after they've closed up, esp at the bigger ones like Lewisham or Woolwich. There'll be similar places round Hackney, Newham, Dagenahm, Walthamstow.

Generally there's not actually that much waste comes out of catering and food shops (hits profits) - it's ordinary people who buy too much who end up throwing away a third of all food bought in this country.

Regards,

Martin

Caiman del Barrio
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Apr 27 2007 14:01

Well seeing as how the WOMBLES never had an official membership, it can be said to refer more to a tendency than a group of people.