IWA Congress report-backs?

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jesuithitsquad
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Dec 17 2009 01:26
AES wrote:
It appears to me that WSA is all at the same anarchist, libertarian syndicalist, anarcho-syndicalist, platformist and none of these all at the same time.

I agree with this. Add pareconist to boot. Which is why I am not a member.

Quote:
And in addition to that, I consider 'syndicalist' to be the most outspoken person to cause damage the reputation of the IWA in the english language world, by his insistence on harping on (well aware that no action will be taken on public forums) about his qualms. Any sympathies I ever had, have come to an end

This is pretty much bullshit and anyone who has spent time on forums with syndicalist knows it. I've read through all of the old threads and never once have I read anything that maligned the IWA. He has asked questions and asked for clarifications (never with answers, mind) but has always seemed to comport himself in a comradely fashion. Syndicalist has always seemed to be able to have a political debate without resorting to making things personal.

Caiman del Barrio
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Dec 17 2009 01:27
AES wrote:
#124 posts into a thread intended to discuss the progress of the recent IWA Congress - this seems very apparent as a thinly veiled attempt once again to undermine the reputation of the IWA

neutral

syndicalist
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Dec 17 2009 01:50
AES wrote:
If the issue could be resolved here then I would agree, however banging on for ten years to third parties and not approaching the issue with a view to resolving it is vexatious and not comradely

Comrade, the WSA made a good faith effort from 1999 to, I believe, it was 2006 to deal with this internally inside the IWA. It's not like an effort wasn't made. Given our experiance, it will be curious to see how the matter of a certain newly revived section was just recently handled.

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ASE: You publicly undermine the reputation of the IWA but claim to be our comrade.

ASE, I didn't bring the subject up. The question was asked:

Vlad336 wrote:
How come the IWA has no branches in North America?

And I responded.

Quote:
At one time the IWA had a very proud and dedicated section, the Workers Solidarity Alliance. For our early history see: http://www.anarchosyndicalism.net/newswire/display_any/217

For other discussion see: http://libcom.org/forums/workers-solidarity-alliance/workers-solidarity-alliance-and-iwa

You'll note I said "proud and dedicated" section.

AES wrote:
If you genuinely intend to gain support then give us something to support, such as by clarifying whether the WSA intends building anarcho-syndicalism in North America.

I think a point is missed. The WSA has not sought to rejoin the IWA. It's not in the cards at this point. As with the IWA, much time has passed and, I suspect, it's not a priority for a majority of WSA members.

That said, WSA will continue to seek good, working relations with IWA Section's, the Secretariat if they so desire, and all who seek to mutually and cooperatively work together with the WSA.

Let me say this, if asked about the past, I will not shy away from the past. As much as folks would like it to be shoved under the rug. I am under no illusion about anyone in the IWA dealing with what transpired in the US in the past. And I have no illusion that this public forum can turn back the hand of time. Maybe the only thing that I have seen, is that some are recognizing publically that the termination of a 20 year relationship by some acting on behalf of the IWA was not a good deal for anyone involved.

As for what the WSA should do or be, well, we are who we are and we will continue to work to build the WSA, build relationships here and abroad. It is clear enough that what ever die which was molded during 1999/2000 has already been casted.

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Dec 17 2009 02:21
syndicalist wrote:
I didn't bring the subject up. The question was asked

laugh out loud and since then it has grown arms and legs

syndicalist
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Dec 17 2009 02:33
AES wrote:
syndicalist wrote:
I didn't bring the subject up. The question was asked

laugh out loud and since then it has grown arms and legs

Indeed. But why?

Let me ask you, if this anything relative to the IWA in north america is ask, should we just erase the time period from 1978 to 2000? basically that is what you are saying comrade.

Signed:

"the most outspoken person to cause damage the reputation of the IWA in the english language world"

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Dec 17 2009 02:49
syndicalist wrote:
... basically that is what you are saying comrade

If you had taken notice of what I am actually saying instead of acting begrudged, then you would have noticed that I have repeatedly said that I would like you to describe the WSA and its relevance to the IWA

syndicalist
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Dec 17 2009 03:18
AES wrote:
syndicalist wrote:
... basically that is what you are saying comrade

If you had taken notice of what I am actually saying instead of acting begrudged, then you would have noticed that I have repeatedly said that I would like you to describe the WSA and its relevance to the IWA

Comrade, I think we're just talking past each other at this point.

As I said, WSA did not seek affiliation to the IWA at the most recent Congress. I mean, for sure comrade, it would be absurd to the maintaince of comradely relations to have to prove our "relevance." But it is interesting that we would have to prove anything at all.

Not for nuthin, but did you use to post under another name?

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Dec 17 2009 03:29

No mention was made by me of proof - my question has to do with the current and ongoing relevance of the WSA to the IWA, affiliation is of secondary importance. This is not a loaded question

syndicalist
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Dec 17 2009 03:40

sorry, seem to have a computer problem here.

deleted as duplicate

syndicalist
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Dec 17 2009 03:39

duplicate

syndicalist
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Dec 17 2009 03:56
AES wrote:
No mention was made by me of proof - my question has to do with the current and ongoing relevance of the WSA to the IWA, affiliation is of secondary importance. This is not a loaded question

None then. I mean, comrade, this is getting a bit odd. Respectfully, if we are not applying for membership then what does the question mean? Do we have neat little catgories, tuck organizations into this box or that box based on some intangable? I'm losing you here.

PS: No hard feelings Mate. Healthy wishes for the new year.

Signed: "the most outspoken person to cause damage the reputation of the IWA in the english language world". man-o-man, i am still laughing. gotta run with this one for a while.

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Nov 4 2012 17:23

.

syndicalist
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Dec 17 2009 04:23

You're not laughing cause you been up the whole night on the computer! If I'm reading this right, the sun should be up in about an hour or so in yer part of the world.

Anyway, I suspect you can answer your question a couple of ways. A counterpart isn't always a mirror image of oneself. If there's no Section for example, it is, in my eyes, it can come down to who do you know that you can work with it. I think you have to work from that premise.

I think if one is always running around, pissing on others shoes then when it comes time for solidarity it either comes at you half-hearted or not at all. But if comardely and principled relations are maintained, even when certan disagreements exist, solidarity is given without hesitation. Is it always the absolute political agreement on all points, or the substance of the relationship? I prefer the latter because when it really counts, when it matters, that will always win the day.

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Nov 4 2012 17:27

.

syndicalist
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Dec 17 2009 04:35

Now we're to blame for the ASI comrades in prison? Oh, why didn't you just say so to begn with.

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AES
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Nov 4 2012 17:28

.

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Juan Conatz
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Dec 17 2009 07:58

what the hell is going on in this thread?

Anyway, first off, some 'qualifiers'.

I identify as an anarcho-syndicalist and for a while have been interested in the IWA, indeed, the last couple of weeks have kind of consisted of reading a great number of the IWA-related threads and articles here on libcom.

I'm also in the WSA. I'm one of the newer members and joined, basically, because I wanted to have connections with older militants and other class struggle anarchists here in the U.S. I'm the lone member in my state, the nearest WSA member is a 6 hour drive. I don't immediately have plans to try to start a local here, as I was already involved in a group. So I feel I don't have the organizational chauvinism that seems to be an implicit assumption by one of the posters here.

That said, a comrade that went to Spain said the CNT demonstrated both how to do an anarcho-syndicalist union and how not to. Based on my impression (which admittedly is mostly from these forums), this could be applied equally to the IWA. There seems to be a good amount of organizing that I find motivating. I look forward to hearing what the CNT and FAU are up to and if I knew the language (Spanish) of some of my family, I would be attempting to translate as much as I could for the English speaking world.

On the other hand, if some of the posters from IWA sections on here reflect the actual culture of the international, the prospects of there ever being another section in the U.S. are minuscule. If anything, I could see the negative aspects within the IWA setting back pro-organization anarchism and anarcho-syndicalism decades if another section was established and it turned sour.

This sentiment I see of disregarding constructive criticism as 'sectarian', 'plotting against the IWA' or 'counter-revolutionary' (basically) is very off putting. I'm not sure if it's reflection of countries where there is a past of large left movements and you can afford to have this kind of attitude or a reflection of countries with a current level of very low struggle, causing insular outlook and behavior, but it's ridiculous and I'm thankful that the pro-organization anarchist elements here in the States have been careful to avoid this.

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Devrim
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Dec 17 2009 07:46
syndicalist wrote:
Signed: "the most outspoken person to cause damage the reputation of the IWA in the english language world". man-o-man, i am still laughing. gotta run with this one for a while.

If this were an argument between left communists discussing events of twenty years ago people on here would be queuing up to call you mental too.

AES wrote:
No I am not laughing because six of our comrades are in prison and have been for three and a half months, while you prioritise your open wound - its just that simple

I think that this is pretty low. I imagine everyone on here feels sympathy for the comrades in prison. However, it doesn't mean that everything else must stop.

I'd like to hear about the IWA conference. I think that it is an important event for revolutionaries and would be interested in what it had to say. Are there any official statements or texts?

Devrim

MT
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Dec 17 2009 08:16

This is really mental! Syndicalist and his ego-masturbation makes me sick and I even don't feel comfortable to read this thread anymore.

This thread is about reports. Several links to reports have been sent. If anyone has problems with those reports, feel free to contact the Secretariat of IWA and ask them to write official report. Or leave it as it is and think that because there is not ENOUGH reports, IWA is sectarian or whatever. Damn...

So, this thread is called IWA Congress report-backs? and there have been several reports on first two pages. Sorry not to find where they are but I really don't want to search this ruined thread full of one-man egotriping.

vanilla.ice.baby
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Dec 17 2009 08:53

It's the childish petulance of some IWA members that has wrecked this thread, not from what I can see the critically supportive comments of any WSA member.

petey
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Dec 17 2009 12:31
Devrim wrote:
AES wrote:
No I am not laughing because six of our comrades are in prison and have been for three and a half months, while you prioritise your open wound - its just that simple

I think that this is pretty low. I imagine everyone on here feels sympathy for the comrades in prison. However, it doesn't mean that everything else must stop.

i agree, this is an embarrassing attempt to change the topic.

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Dec 17 2009 12:45

'syndicalist' can discuss his ten year old open wound as much as he pleases and he does, neither did I suggest that "everything else must stop". As for changing the topic, the topic is "IWA Congress report-backs" but little interest has been shown when the topic itself was focussed on

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Joseph Kay
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Dec 17 2009 12:55

this thread is an excellent example of why the IWA is considered a bit nuts.

a general word of advice to comrades: if you suspect an ulterior motive to a question, take it at face value and answer it - this is a public forum and there are many more casual readers than posters on the thread. they would be none the wiser to the subtext and just see a simple question/answer. alternatively ignore the question.

accusations and counter-accusations just reflect badly on all involved and make us sound paranoid, defensive and sectarian. so even if syndicalist was pursuing an agenda of attacking the IWA (and i'm far from convinced that's the case), responding in kind would only help that imho.

vanilla.ice.baby
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Dec 17 2009 13:03
AES wrote:
'syndicalist' can discuss his ten year old open wound as much as he pleases and he does, neither did I suggest that "everything else must stop". As for changing the topic, the topic is "IWA Congress report-backs" but little interest has been shown when the topic itself was focussed on

I cannot believe you are prioritising congress reports when six of your comrades are in jail!

See? Easy isn't it.

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Dec 17 2009 13:13

Is this funny to you?

vanilla.ice.baby
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Dec 17 2009 13:31
AES wrote:
Is this funny to you?

No, I'm laughing because you are prioritising arguing on a tiny messageboard with the individual who has done most to discredit the IWA in the English speaking world while six of your comrades are in jail.

vanilla.ice.baby
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Dec 17 2009 13:33
AES wrote:
Is this funny to you?

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Dec 17 2009 13:37
AES wrote:
...neither did I suggest that "everything else must stop"
syndicalist
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Dec 17 2009 13:55

Thank you comrades for the information provided on the Congress thus far. Good wishes, good health and success in all your 2010 efforts. As for the ASI comrades, let's hope that the next report backs will be about their freedom.

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Nov 4 2012 17:30

.