Stopping ID cards!

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Anonymous
May 26 2005 00:29
Stopping ID cards!

It looks as if the government is really serious about introducing ID cards:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4577087.stm

What can we do to stop them being introduced?

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Rob Ray
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May 26 2005 11:24

Well unless someone comes up with a really terrific way of getting across to a very large audience very quickly and unassailably that it'll be a colossal waste of resources (attacking the civil liberties angle is pointless imo), not alot.

Having said that the rebel tendency in Labour may well be able to count on Tory contrariness to back them in the event of a vote, and the liberals are dead against it afiak? So there's a decent chance it'll get torn down, though the effort expended already in implementation tests and development may make it difficult to stop even from that angle.

lucy82
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May 26 2005 13:58

about 50% of the population are against them so thats not a bad starting point and we've had an overwhelmingly positive response to anti-id stuff we've done as Defy-ID in manc (not that we've done that much). just plugging away at their disinformation i guess...

nastyned
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May 26 2005 14:19

I think that we'll be forced to fork out nearly a hundred quid for them is going to help build opposition at lot.

lydia2600
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May 26 2005 15:03

Most people seem to think it won’t happen, because the Conservatives, the Liberals and some Labour back benchers will vote against the ID bill, as happened last time.

But I was under the impression that the government was going to force it through no matter how the vote went?

I guess it’s pointless for me pointed out the fickleness of government on this board!

It will be interesting when they start demanding cash from people for these things, especially when you have a family with a couple of teenagers, who suddenly need to fork out £400 before they even book their holiday?

lucy82
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May 27 2005 09:52

apparently the major concern amongst the public is identity fraud re credit cards, which is interesting because the big credit card companies who commissioned this particular poll don't want id cards for the purpose of combatting id fraud because they say id cards are a pretty much useless way of fighting fraud...

i agree though that the money these things will cost is usually enough to shake people. i read in the paper some wellmeaning soul suggesting that the government brings in a rental scheme for id cards so poor people can have one too, just until the terrorist crisis is over, then we can all hand them back to the government. its so naive its scary.

the wider concern as well is that we live in a society so dependent on credit, often marketed agressively at people on low incomes at extortianate interest rates and without a hope in hell of paying it back. a woman with two kids hung herself recently because of multiple debt issues. i know this is somewhat off topic but i wish i could think of an imaginative way of combatting the perception that id cards will protect againsnt credit fraud alongside having a go at the credit industry itself..

sublimembject
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May 27 2005 10:52

Funny, isn't it that we've heard so much about ID theft over the past year or so?

WeTheYouth
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May 27 2005 20:33
sublimeobject wrote:
Funny, isn't it that we've heard so much about ID theft over the past year or so?

Yeah, its like when we had tanks outside heathrow before the iraq war because of terrorists.

mng
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Jun 8 2005 11:45

The private sector involvement is one of the main reasons why I think the government is so dead set on getting the ID bill through. They have literally invested so much already in it - I try to keep pointing this out to people: £9 million already spent, largely going to one consulting firm, and a revolving door between government & the IT/consulting firms

Have adapted Corporate Watch's summary of ID-related business junkets and lobbying, & list of companies, from their Feb/Mar issue (can't find it on their site now - it's a shorter version of http://www.defy-id.org.uk/greasypalms.htm) into a doublesided A4 sheet - can email to people if anyone wants it

Tommy Ascaso wrote:
I got this e-mail from Defy-ID today...
Quote:
We would like to draw your attention to a special event that will be

taking place in Central London on the Monday 6th June. The Home Office, in

collaboration with Intellect (the IT industry trade body), are holding an

ID Cards conference entitled "Towards Procurement & Implementation". This

event is sponsored by Atos Origin, Axalto, Detica, EDS, Fujitsu, Siemens

Business Service, and Unisys.

...

More information about the conference, including the full agenda can be

found at

http://www.intellectuk.org/databases/calendar/EventDetails.asp?ID=1022

Haven't seen any info about the outcome of the conference yet - anybody?

btw the link quoted there no longer works. The link to the pdf of the agenda for the conference is:

http://www.intellectuk.org/events/id_agenda160305.pdf

Spinwatch has a bit of background on some of the participants - e.g.

"The public can rest easy knowing that Fleishman Hillard is the PR brains behind the ID cards effort. It's the firm that's just paid out $5.7 million dollars to settle an overbilling lawsuit brought against it by the city of Los Angeles. The scandal brought to light allegations that the firm had used political donations to buy its contract with the city.

So what could possibly go wrong now that it's involved with ID cards in the UK?"

http://www.spinwatch.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1074

Lazlo_Woodbine
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Jun 8 2005 21:24

Good article here about how UK road pricing proposals could be the thin end of a Euro-wide ID system, via monitoring equipment in cars Corporations will be licking their lips at this one as well -- millions of cars will need to be fitted with these systems, surely?

http://www.theregister.com/2005/06/06/uk_road_price_plans/

Ghost_of_the_re...
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Jun 11 2005 17:48

Will road pricing apply to the filth? Only it would be nice if they had an incentive to get out of their fucking cars and actually protect the community for once. Only it wouldn't be nice in my manor due to the fact that the pigs all have guns.

OK forget it, the police can stay in their cars.

As for anti-ID card stuff, the best point to use is the ridiculous cost of the things, especially to the individual, and the fact that living in your home country and using services your taxes pay for should not be conditional upon conformity to neo-fascist surveillance projects. On a wider level, working against the media/government bullshit about asylum seekers and terrorists stalking the streets stealing jobs and stabbing babies would help to undermine the initial justification for ID cards. Most importantly, if the law does come in, make sure you're dead in the cold cold ground before you give them 85 quid for the priviledge of being spied on by David Blunkett's secret underground mole army.

knightrose
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Jun 11 2005 20:36

cpould we have a defy ID forum on here .

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Jacques Roux
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Jun 11 2005 20:37

Tommy Ascaso said he was going to do a feature on defy id for this site... dont think hes got round to it sad

I would have thought if the Defy ID ppl asked for one, we wouldnt have any problems with it... but we would have to check smile

lucy82
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Jun 11 2005 20:46

whose the Defy ID people? i thought it was us(Manc)/Preston/Liverpool and any other ad hoc Defy ID groups set up in a loose network of local groups. There isn't a centre as such, just a couple of people who started the ball rolling.

Maybe it would be a good idea to have a forum here. I don't want to take discussion re ID off the general forums though so I'm not sure how useful a separate forum would be. On the general forums people will stumble across it when browsing through, in a specific forum it becomes something you look at only when your already involved maybe?

anyway we had fun today. I copied this from the Northwest forum for all of you who never even go virtually north wink

well the ministry of truth went ok and people said ooh thats a bad thing and it costs how much?? then we were helped by the intervention of the manager of tescos complaining followed closely by agressively stupid council wardens quoting a new law they couldn't remember and then the infinately more sensible police who went err... and went away again, introducing a little british bobbie sanity into the proceedings and attracting more punters simply by their presence.

not the most comprehensive report ever, i admit but people were asking me for leaflets and we could have given out ten times what we did but the question that many people asked was what can we do?

easy answers: refuse to carry id. complicated consequences.

knightrose
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Jun 12 2005 08:12

I think a separate listing for Defy ID would help people involved share information easily and allow us to swop resources.

As lucy said, yesterday's event in Manchester aroused a lot of interest. Funnily enough, we had a lot of really useful conversations with people after we'd run out of leaflets. Passers by were attracted to the display and not put off by running a gauntlet to read it. There are some lessons here for us in how to arrange ourselves next time we go out.

And, as Lucy said, it was funny to see the difference in reaction between the pretend cops and the real ones. The ones in red hats, the city wardens, wanted us to move away from where we were, because we were causing an obstruction. Which we weren't, we were annoying the manager of Tescos who doesn't like people giving out leaflets outside his shop. The cops reaction was "please don't upset the wardens and speak to them politely and, oh, stay where you are". They must really hate each other wink

Interestingly a number of people commented on the link between ID cards and this new chip in your car scheme.

lucy82
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Jun 12 2005 15:34

I've asked if Defy-ID can have a forum on the boards. rkn's getting back to us when its been discussed.

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Jacques Roux
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Jun 13 2005 22:49

As if by magic....

http://www.libcom.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=105

Use it or lose it! wink

edit: of if you think it will help people spread the word/link to us we can set up libcom.org/id or something similair smile

dustylodge
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Jun 14 2005 15:02

The ridiculous thing is theyre going to cost "US" £90 to buy...which in my views is FUCKED UP

Oi!
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Jun 14 2005 15:05

As a result of facial changes we will also be required to attend 'biometric profiling' centres every 5 years. Sweet!

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Refused
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Jun 14 2005 16:35

Haha. My face changes roughly every 7 days, 5 years ain't gonna cut it!

thaw
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Jun 14 2005 22:00

If enough people do it - a la poll tax - it can be done. Policies that hit people in the pocket directly are always good, although they may try to mitigate this. Good approaches would be public meetings about the costs, agitprop etc if it comes to it. Linking political issues as ever.

Anyway it's an unworkable IT project, never been done before and won't work.

Mike Harman
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Jun 14 2005 22:15
thaw wrote:
If enough people do it - a la poll tax - it can be done. Policies that hit people in the pocket directly are always good, although they may try to mitigate this. Good approaches would be public meetings about the costs, agitprop etc if it comes to it. Linking political issues as ever.

Anyway it's an unworkable IT project, never been done before and won't work.

Yeah, I was speaking to someone where I work who's very against it the other day. It's already very unpopular, or if there isn't people will soon be put off by the cost. The tricky thing is turning that individualised discomfort into collective resistance.

thaw
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Jun 14 2005 22:26

Like I say, public meetings etc. I can provide more detail later.

Also, we need to point out very forcefully why it is wrong. Need some good wordage.

lucy82
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Jun 17 2005 20:15
Quote:
The tricky thing is turning that individualised discomfort into collective resistance.

i don't think you can, yet. but there is a lot of discomfort about it and we should be giving people as much info as we can while we can. when it becomes a reality knocking on the door, then things may change.

thaw, have you been involved in any public meetings around resisting id? if you have i would be interested to know how it went.

Dave Jones
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Jun 18 2005 00:03

\"How did you find this general public, tarquin, did they smell?\"

thaw
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Jun 24 2005 20:11

Dave, if folk want knowledge, it is a good thing.

Not been involved yet in anti-ID PUBLIC meetings, but will do when the time is right. We need to ORGANISE a campaign as was done with the poll tax. (non-trot incase you hadn't guessed)

knightrose
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Jun 25 2005 07:25

A friend in Guernsey wants to meet others who can help set up soem activity over there.

Anyone able to suggest contacts?

Steve Booth
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Jul 3 2005 22:01

One important thing about having a large scale civil disobedience campaign against it, like the poll tax, is that if it is to stand a hope of success it will be necessary to keep the SWP out.