Take Back the Night, Ipswich

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Pepe
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Dec 14 2006 15:16
Take Back the Night, Ipswich

This idea has been mentioned on other threads, and now that I've spoken to some other people about it I think it will probably happen soon.

Basically I've been speaking to someone from Ipswich who's really up for it. He's been talking about it on other websites (indymedia etc) and has got a very positive response. He says he's going to go round the brothels in Ipswich within the next couple of days to talk to some prostitutes about it.

This will be a mixed, not female only, event. If anyone has issues with that we can discuss it here.

One concern thats been raised is that TBtN would take up police resources when they are at the moment badly needed elsewhere. To that I'd say the whole point is that this doesn't need chaperoning, but then I don't know anything about organising protests, do official protests have to have police escorts? Does this have to be an 'official' protest?

Also it'd be nice if we can use this thread to start thinking about the demands that should be made by the protest.

Please post any 'constructive criticism' here, and you can email anything non-offensive to ipwichqueers [AT] yahoo.co.uk

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Steven.
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Dec 14 2006 15:21

I wouldn't've thought it'd put a strain on socially useful police resources really, I'd think they'd have separate public order police, and something like that probably wouldn't need any chaperone. Police don't have to be at all demonstrations AFAIK. Though they probably would be present for this...

As for demands, well it's difficult to think of anything concrete, other than just a general gesture of defiance against violence against women. Also it looks like all the women killed were drug addicts, which is what pulled them into the trade, so there is some potential legalisation angle there, but pretty obscure...

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Joseph Kay
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Dec 14 2006 15:22
Jess wrote:
do official protests have to have police escorts?

if you can persuade them you'll have enough bibbed stewards and have done a health and safety risk assessment (!), and your demands are non-radical, then the police presence will be token.

Jess wrote:
Does this have to be an 'official' protest?

tactical call. there'll be terrible press if it isn't, all sorts of logistical problems if it is neutral

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madashell
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Dec 14 2006 15:26

You might wanna break that e-mail addy there, otherwise it'll get spammed to fuck.

Sounds like a decent idea to me, though I'm unlikely to travel to Ipswhich for it wink

Using this to promote initiatives like the IUSW would be a good idea, I reckon.

http://www.iusw.org/start/index.html

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Steven.
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Dec 14 2006 15:30
madashell wrote:
Using this to promote initiatives like the IUSW would be a good idea, I reckon.

http://www.iusw.org/start/index.html

Good call, you should definitely contact them to get feedback. Ot would also be worth getting in touch with $pread magazine - a radical sexworkers mag based in new york.

ticking_fool
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Dec 14 2006 17:11

Might be worth getting in touch with this lot (http://www.prostitutescollective.net/). I've no idea who they are, but they seem to be the talking heads of choice for the BBC at the moment so if you're after publicity, or even smoothing things with the police a bit, they could be useful.

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madashell
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Dec 14 2006 17:55

Hmm, I've heard some not good things about the ECP, like that there aren't actually any prostitutes involved in it. This is all second hand though, so it could be bollocks.

tumble-weed
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Dec 14 2006 19:24

Friends,

After the bodies of 5 sex workers were found murdered within 10 days of each other and the police advising women to stay at home we call you to...

********RECLAIM THE NIGHT - 29TH DECEMBER - 7PM ONWARDS - IPSWICH TOWN HALL STEPS**********

WE HAVE COMRADES VISITING ARRIVING FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY TO SHOW THEIR LOVE AND SOLIDARITY; IF YOU ARE ABLE TO OFFER TRANSPORT OR WOULD LIKE IT PLEASE CONTACT US AND WE WILL TRY OUR HARDEST TO ORGANISE LIFT SHARES ETC.

IF YOU REQUIRE ACCOMODATION BEFORE OR AFTER LET US KNOW ASAP AND IT WILL BE PROVIDED (THOUGH THE QUALITY MIGHT NOT BE GREAT!)

PLEASE BRING BANNERS, FOOD TO SHARE, YOUR THOUGHTS, EXPERIENCES, LOVE, FRIENDS.

****THIS WILL NOT BE RESTRICTED TO A WOMEN ONLY EVENT****

TELL EVERYONE YOU KNOW!

FOR MORE INFORMATION CONTACT ipswichqueers[AT]yahoo.co.uk

(if you are planning on coming; it would be wonderful if you could contact us so we can get an idea of numbers)

For those in the Ipswich Area we DESPERATELY need your help in organising this potentially mammoth event; please meet us at Cafe Direct, Suffolk College at 7pm Monday 18th December (for directions use the above numbers)

tumble-weed
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Dec 14 2006 21:17

Can this be made sticky please?

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Steven.
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Dec 15 2006 11:13
tumble-weed wrote:
Can this be made sticky please?

Stickies aren't very good really - I'd just post again in Announcements.

madashell wrote:
Hmm, I've heard some not good things about the ECP, like that there aren't actually any prostitutes involved in it. This is all second hand though, so it could be bollocks.

Yeah that prostitutes collective I think are linked to the Crossroads Womens Centre, who are pretty Stalinist. Can't remember which communist party think they're linked to though, if any.

Pepe
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Dec 15 2006 12:43

We've been condemned!

London Feminist Network wrote:
Reclaim The Night is a Feminist event, that is a title
with a herstory which should not be used for events
which are not in keeping with the Feminist women-only
tradition of that name... If it is mixed then potentially you could be marching
along next to the murderer of these young women - who
I'm sure would think it was very clever to take part
in such an event

They're doing their own womens only one in January roll eyes

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Steven.
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Dec 15 2006 12:49
London Feminist Network wrote:
herstory

roll eyes

stinkerbell
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Dec 15 2006 12:54
Jess wrote:
We've been condemned!

London Feminist Network wrote:
Reclaim The Night is a Feminist event, that is a title
with a herstory which should not be used for events
which are not in keeping with the Feminist women-only
tradition of that name... If it is mixed then potentially you could be marching
along next to the murderer of these young women - who
I'm sure would think it was very clever to take part
in such an event

They're doing their own womens only one in January roll eyes

Is this for real? For fucks sake...
Probably won't be able to make this, but good luck with it all and I hope that loads of men (sorry, potential rapists)make it along to show their support too.

stinkerbell
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Dec 15 2006 12:56
revol68 wrote:
Jack wrote:
Do they even know the murderer is a man yet?

good point, though let's be honest it's 95% likely to be man.

True. I therefore plan on only talking to 5% of my male friends, and 95% of my female ones, and expext to see LFN doing the same.

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jef costello
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Dec 15 2006 12:56
revol68 wrote:
Jack wrote:
Do they even know the murderer is a man yet?

good point, though let's be honest it's 95% likely to be man.

No evidence of rape, couldn't possibly have been a man.

Pepe
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Dec 15 2006 13:29

I didn't make it up, I did crop some bits out of the email so that only the worst/best bits were left. They had one semi-salient point which was that the point of the march was to show that women don't need escorting by men - but seeing as the official police line is for women to stay in groups (NOT just to have a male chaperone) this doesn't make sense, and personally I'd rather the march was about everyone marching together in solidarity against violence against women anyway. The bastards.

I hope all you men are going to show up to this, imagine how annoyed the LFN will be! cool

powertotheimagi...
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Dec 15 2006 13:39

Why the rolled eyes for herstory, I think its great.

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Joseph Kay
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Dec 15 2006 13:41

well for one the etymology of 'history' isn't gendered, iirc

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Steven.
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Dec 15 2006 13:45
Joseph K. wrote:
well for one the etymology of 'history' isn't gendered

That's correct, it's not related to the word "his"; it's coincidence.

BB
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Dec 15 2006 13:59
Jess wrote:
We've been condemned!

London Feminist Network wrote:
Blah, blah, blah.

They're doing their own womens only one in January roll eyes

WTF!

winjer
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Dec 15 2006 14:06
John. wrote:
I wouldn't've thought it'd put a strain on socially useful police resources really, I'd think they'd have separate public order police

There's no such thing in any UK force, all the TSGs/TAGs ('riot cops') are used for many other things, including the type of many-bodies-few-brains searches and door-to-door inquiries that a large investigation like this will involve - it might not actually be useful, but the march could be presented as putting additional strain on it.

arf
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Dec 15 2006 21:57

in fairness, the LFN arent doing their own march. as far as i can tell, womens orgs in ipswich are organising a women-only march in jan and the LFN has chosen to support them rather than the mixed march.

i wish we could just march together because i think the most important thing right now is standing in solidarity against violence against women, and in memory of the women who are being and have been murdered.

however, its not the end of the world. jess - go on both marches, and encourage your female friends to do the same. tumble weed, go on your mixed march, and why dont you try and organise some sort of mens meet on the same night as the other one, somewhere else? that would be a positive move i think, and it would show that the men both respect the need for women only space and the origins of the RTN march, and are dedicated to supporting women in their liberation from violence. i think that most of the women on the women only march would respect such a meet in return.

it doesnt have to be either/or, and you can spin this to be a positive turn of events. they are doing the WO march on a different night so whats now going to happen is that there will be two major events, within weeks of each other. thats a good thing, surely, its keeping up the pressure on the council, the courts, the gov, to fucking sort their shit out. and both the womens and mens second event can be promoted at the first.

arf
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Dec 15 2006 22:02
Joseph K. wrote:
well for one the etymology of 'history' isn't gendered, iirc

that doesnt matter. the word is just as valid as any other word, it has been invented, it has a meaning, and it is getting used. thats all we need to know for the word to be legitimate.

if you think about it, there is little that could be more oppressively sexist than denying women an equal right to create our common language. we use it too, and we also are entitled to create words and definitions.

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Refused
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Dec 15 2006 23:25
arf wrote:
if you think about it, there is little that could be more oppressively sexist than denying women an equal right to create our common language. we use it too, and we also are entitled to create words and definitions.

What?

arf
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Dec 15 2006 23:43

meaning that the english language has been mostly dominated by men, but that doesnt have to always be the case, as long as we afford the same respect to the terms created by women. there are new words that officially enter the dictionarys all the time, so i dont see why words created by women should draw such contempt, unless its a deliberate attempt to keep women from 'corrupting' the english language. which is a pretty big deal because our language is one of our basics, its how we communicate, and women need to be able to have a hand in defining it.

anyway its another fascinating subject which i'd be glad to discuss elsewhere but dont want to take over this thread.

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georgestapleton
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Dec 15 2006 23:53
arf wrote:
meaning that the english language has been mostly dominated by men

language is set being spoken. So what does this mean? Unless you simply mean the ruling ideas are the ideas of the ruling class gender.

Quote:
i dont see why words created by women should draw such contempt, unless its a deliberate attempt to keep women from 'corrupting' the english language.

I think it a problem with deliberately inventing new words that do not increase our understanding of something. And this isn't gendered, the bete noire of many people on this forum when it comes to new words is 'precarity'. People think its a useless word.

More specifically with regard to herstory this doesn't even claim to increase our understanding of anything. It merely wants to draw attention to womans role in history. But it does it in the most superficial way imaginable. Its as if someone said but your being semantic to whoever invented the term and then that person set about proving them right.

Its a really un-political term that clarifies nothing, is etymologically flawed, doesn't increase our understanding of anything and simply divides the small section of society that choses to use the term from the rest of the community.

Its a silly word that makes us feminists look bonkers and interested more in undermining spelling-bees than the sexist structures of society.

Steggsie
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Dec 16 2006 11:56

George: presumably you are content to use terms like 'fireman', etc. to refer to women, then, since 'man', etymologically, is not gender specific?

arf
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Dec 16 2006 14:11
Quote:
Its a silly word that makes us feminists look bonkers and interested more in undermining spelling-bees than the sexist structures of society.

the fact that feminists are portrayed to look bonkers for inventing and using their own language says an awful lot more about the people slagging them off than the feminists themselves.

george - women are always portrayed to be bonkers in comparison to men, after all , who can understand women? it doesnt matter what words feminists use, the substance of what they say is going to be considered bonkers by people with unexamined or embraced misogyny, simply because its women, and even more specifically women in the womens movement, who are saying it.

further - feminists do not have to tailor their language to sit more comfortably with patriarchal language.

maybe it would help if you considered feminist words to be a kind of cultural slang. groups of peers develop their own slang and feminists are no different, and their words no less relevant or acceptable.

you are also wrong in considering the word herstory as un-political. first - when groups of people who are not dominant in society create their own language, it is a political act, it is taking the power back to define our reality for ourselves.
second - even by your definition of herstory as "merely wants to draw attention to womans role in history" - that is a political aim in itself and it is a useful term to describe that aim.

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Steven.
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Dec 16 2006 14:23
arf wrote:
maybe it would help if you considered feminist words to be a kind of cultural slang. groups of peers develop their own slang and feminists are no different, and their words no less relevant or acceptable.

That's the main problem I have with it. As george pointed out I spend a lot more effort trying to get anarchists to stop using subcultural slang and buzzwords the majority of the population don't understand. It reeks of introspection, scene-ism and elitism, and distances people with radical ideas even more from the rest of society (this is sadly something many radicals are actually happy about, because then they can surround themselves with people who agree with them and never have to have their ideas tested in wider society. Such people then come up with things like this Autonomous ESF declaration).

Saying nonsense buzzwords words like precarity, euro-insurgent, wombyn and herstory just mark you out as different from everyone else, and easier to write off as a bunch of cranks (though a largely true assertion in most cases...).

arf
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Dec 16 2006 14:32

i disagree with your position on language then. "subcultural slang" is an important stepping stone to solidarity imo. also, i think you're overlooking the importance of language - why it exists, who created it, what purpose does it serve, etc.

i also think it's patronising to assume that a noob (wink) couldnt soon learn the slang. especially with words like "herstory" which have a completely obvious meaning.

arf
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Dec 16 2006 14:40
Quote:
Saying nonsense buzzwords words like precarity, euro-insurgent, wombyn and herstory just mark you out as different from everyone else, and easier to write off as a bunch of cranks (though a largely true assertion in most cases...).

who decides what is a useful and valid word, and what is a "nonsense buzzword"?

John, i think that your position is the more alienating one for the great majority of people. every community has its own accents and slang and whilst it is useful to have a common language to communicate between different communities, actually trying to force it on people is oppressive in the extreme. i dont think its any different than telling people that the only accent they should use is the BBC middle england accent, and deliberately persecuting or just plain ignoring those of us who do not have or use it. i went through school being told my accent was shameful, ive learned from it, and i have no intention of buying into that crap now.