against leaders? against all authority?

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cantdocartwheels's picture
cantdocartwheels
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May 4 2006 08:43

Firstly; the idea that medicine is reactionary due to its social discourse is just complete nonsense. I work in care does this make me reactionary because those i look after are ''patients'' and i am a ''carer'' what absolute cack.

Secondly; all doctors come from publc schools? what? I haven't met a single one who has, but then i lived in ondon so maybe its different elsewhere but quite seriously most of the doctors i've met are migrant workers or are anglo-indians (stupid term though it is).

And thirdly; obviously some doctors are, since they are given management roles or receive private gain from their practice. However, i don't see what makes them any more or less reactionary than any other trade which involves directly making money from your skills. Take a mechanic; given the role of sales commission, their job is often simply to rip people off, particularly those who don't have enough money to be regular customers. Does this make them intrinsically reactionary because they make as much many as they can? I don't think so.

lem
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May 4 2006 22:20
cantdocartwheels wrote:
Firstly; the idea that medicine is reactionary due to its social discourse is just complete nonsense. I work in care does this make me reactionary because those i look after are ''patients'' and i am a ''carer'' what absolute cack.

Secondly; all doctors come from publc schools? what? I haven't met a single one who has, but then i lived in ondon so maybe its different elsewhere but quite seriously most of the doctors i've met are migrant workers or are anglo-indians (stupid term though it is).

And thirdly; obviously some doctors are, since they are given management roles or receive private gain from their practice. However, i don't see what makes them any more or less reactionary than any other trade which involves directly making money from your skills. Take a mechanic; given the role of sales commission, their job is often simply to rip people off, particularly those who don't have enough money to be regular customers. Does this make them intrinsically reactionary because they make as much many as they can? I don't think so.

Sure, a self employed mechanic, that manages other people.If you look at the figures, I would be fairly sure that most go to public school. At the very least more than is usual. A reactionary/oppresive discourse is reactionary/oppresive confused . If an institution creates a reactionary/oppressive discourse, surely the institution is partly reactionary/oppressive, other institutions manage not to. At the very least it ought to change.

If you reply that sure the discourse is oppressive, but there is no other way that it could be becasue of the limitations of life, I would have to disagree.

lem
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May 4 2006 22:23

You would have to explain that to me neutral

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Steven.
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May 4 2006 22:36

My god lem you're talking a lot of bollocks. Are you some philosophy student or something like that?

Mike Harman
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May 4 2006 22:47
revol68 wrote:
John. wrote:
My god lem you're talking a lot of bollocks. Are you some philosophy student or something like that?

oi!

'tis a fair point.

Having worked in a few psychiatric institutions, psychiatrists are to me an exception to this, since they can lock you up for a month or 6 months with the say so of one other doctor and a social worker. And once you're in you have next to no legal protection (I used to do admin for the supposed legal protection bit and it was fucking terrible in any way you could imagine). I heard about one bloke who'd got drunk one night and did a bit of running in the street because he'd broken up with his girlfriend, - a month locked up and forcibly medicated because he was put on a section 36 then a section 2 (I think it's 36, was a while ago now), instead of arrested for drunk and disorderly - didn't actually meet him but I got to know his solicitor reasonably well since he had to come into our office to get paperwork. Arguably they've got a lot more power than the police have, and you don't need to have done anything wrong at all, or even have been suspected of such.

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May 4 2006 23:09

You don't need to have done anything wrong with the police either, Catch, but I guess you're talking according to law! What can be done legally in medicine esp. psychiatric is bad enough, let alone the abuse/oppression stuff...Will post more on this/start a thread when its not, like, the day before my birthday, and I'm trying to feel mellow....

Mike Harman
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May 4 2006 23:14
Lone Wolf wrote:
You don't need to have done anything wrong with the police either, Catch, but I guess you're talking according to law!

Yeah I mean according to law, the legal restraints on psychiatrists are far less than those on the police - they can do pretty much what they like to people without any comeback at all, legal or otherwise.

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Will post more on this/start a thread when its not, like, the day before my birthday, and I'm trying to feel mellow....

fair enough! Happy birthday!

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May 4 2006 23:37
Catch wrote:
revol68 wrote:
John. wrote:
My god lem you're talking a lot of bollocks. Are you some philosophy student or something like that?

oi!

'tis a fair point.

Yeah. IME a lot of people who are students of those shitty pseudo-intellectual arts subjects like philosophy, politics, sociology, anthropology, etc. do talk an awful lot of useless bollox, probably because they're put in a peer group that looks up to people who can talk useless bollox and make it sound clever. Just trying to see what/who I'm dealing with...

(I wonder how many people I've offended here? grin grin as a disclaimer I'm not having a go at my friends who do these sorts of courses btw wink)

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May 4 2006 23:41

Well said, John.. IME I have noticed that certain levels of esteem are awarded to those that end up talking the most amount of pseudo-intellectual shit.

In the words of Carlin: 'Boarding process. Sounds important. It isn't. It's just a bunch of people getting on an airplane.'

grin

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May 4 2006 23:43

John - Disclaimer? A real man wouldn't need a disclaimer! If you weren't sodding about in an admin. job John and had gone for the Unilever 6 figure one you maybe would have the courage of your convictions! grin

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May 4 2006 23:45

See John, I was about to disagree with you there, but then I remembered Goldsmiths, and a recent lecture I'd attended

http://libcom.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9862&postorder=asc

And remembered how much I agree with you grin

lem
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May 4 2006 23:56
John. wrote:
My god lem you're talking a lot of bollocks. Are you some philosophy student or something like that?

I'm just sensitive (to oppression) cry .

No, but I AM a failing philosophy/psychology student.

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May 5 2006 00:00
revol68 wrote:
as opposed to the arrogant socially inept fuckwits that do the hard sciences?

Well it's not arrogance, they are actually superior to you. Next time you want to fly in a plane, get a post-structuralist to design it for you. Get cancer? A cultural relativist could help you cure it I'm sure. roll eyes

I'd like to see some evidence for that theism claim you always go on about btw.

lem wrote:
John. wrote:
My god lem you're talking a lot of bollocks. Are you some philosophy student or something like that?

I'm just sensitive (to oppression) cry .

No, but I AM a failing philosophy/psychology student.

Ha ha I knew it! grin

So who is it hospital janitors are oppressing exactly?

Apart from JD of course

lem
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May 5 2006 00:11
John. wrote:
So who is it hospital janitors are oppressing exactly?

Society at large. If you don't think there is anything wrong with that amount of authoty, then fine, we will disagree.

The janitors thing was just to point out (badly) that, just because doctors work in medicine, does not mean that they are uncriticisable - in any way. Though janitors do reproduce an unjust institution.

I think I have raised some fairly good points, and have just been told that its "unthinkable".

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May 5 2006 00:37
lem wrote:
John. wrote:
So who is it hospital janitors are oppressing exactly?

Society at large. If you don't think there is anything wrong with that amount of authoty, then fine, we will disagree.

The janitors thing was just to point out (badly) that, just because doctors work in medicine, does not mean that they are uncriticisable - in any way. Though janitors do reproduce an unjust institution.

I think I have raised some fairly good points, and have just been told that its "unthinkable".

No - just crazy.

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May 5 2006 11:56
Lone Wolf wrote:
John - Disclaimer? A real man wouldn't need a disclaimer! If you weren't sodding about in an admin. job John and had gone for the Unilever 6 figure one you maybe would have the courage of your convictions! grin

So you think he needs more money to be a 'real man'? tongue

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philosophy, politics, sociology, anthropology, etc.

yep, like most arts subjects they are filed with people who talk bollocks. I think the courses are (sometimes) decent and the subjects are worth looking into, but most people studying these courses do not engage with what they study, they simply learn enough stuff to sound clever in front of each other.

Luckily it requires minimal knowledge to crack these fuckers.

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May 5 2006 11:58
Jef Costello wrote:
yep, like most arts subjects they are filed with people who talk bollocks. I think the courses are (sometimes) decent and the subjects are worth looking into, but most people studying these courses do not engage with what they study, they simply learn enough stuff to sound clever in front of each other.

Luckily it requires minimal knowledge to crack these fuckers.

You're all bastards cry

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May 5 2006 12:02
revol68 wrote:
Jef Costello wrote:
yep, like most arts subjects they are filed with people who talk bollocks. I think the courses are (sometimes) decent and the subjects are worth looking into, but most people studying these courses do not engage with what they study, they simply learn enough stuff to sound clever in front of each other.

Luckily it requires minimal knowledge to crack these fuckers.

you think?

I;ve been getting away with it for years on here!

You think?

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May 5 2006 12:07
revol68 wrote:
last time you tried to cock me with some leading questions towards Hegaylianism you ended up with spunk on yer face. Boyo

Well, for "tried to cock me" read "invited me to stay at your house," for "with some leading questions towards Hegaylianism" read, "and lent me your pillow," and for "the button" read "Jack," and I suppose you're right.

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May 5 2006 12:12
Jef Costello wrote:
most people studying these courses do not engage with what they study, they simply learn enough stuff to sound clever in front of each other.

You just described half of the Medical students in existence.

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May 5 2006 12:14
Refused wrote:
Jef Costello wrote:
most people studying these courses do not engage with what they study, they simply learn enough stuff to sound clever in front of each other.

You just described half of the Medical students in existence.

Don't be silly refused, that would be impossible, they study real science that can be proven with graphs and everything. Only really clever people can do that. It's just wooly minded intellectually inferior people who study anything else. Like me.

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May 5 2006 12:17

No. I'm too bland and uninteresting for that.

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May 5 2006 12:18
revol68 wrote:
Wooly minded people study you?

You'd have to be rather liberal to study zobag. You could probably plot some kind of graph out of her curves?

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Ramona
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May 5 2006 12:22

I'm no longer reading this thread. It's disgusting.

Refused's picture
Refused
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May 5 2006 12:23

I beg to differ. Y = X^2 + PHWOAR!!!

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Ramona
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May 5 2006 12:25

Quit with your fancy talk. I hope you're not objectifying Mary Whitehouse angry

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Refused
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May 5 2006 12:28

The plot sickens.

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May 5 2006 18:13

size of that chain!

lem
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May 5 2006 23:36

Graphs are shit.

I made a graph once out of x's and y's.

It was shit.

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May 6 2006 01:05

Jef/John - Nah...the thing that appealed to me about John getting the 6 figure Unilever job wasn't the salary. It would be because he would be inheriting a sound team of 500 peeps Europe wide and I just like the thought of this young, skinny, intelligent guy bossing about all these peeps a lot older than him IRL instead of using his ringwraith status to boss people about on here. wink Just a bit cooler doncha know and it would piss off some off the stodgy peeps at Unilever. They would hate being outmaneouvred by this geek kid. I just find it an enjoyable thought. I'm only human. smile