"Anarcho"-fascism

128 posts / 0 new
Last post
Anarcho
Offline
Joined: 22-10-06
Feb 24 2008 22:26
David UK wrote:
Theres no reason to discuss how to deal with Anarcho-fascism as a problem because it's not a problem if we ignore it. Really. No one will EVER hear of anarcho fascists except academics with their heads ups their asses and other Anarchists. Because it only exists in their (and our) strange world of fantasy politics.

Hell, even academic ignore it. It really is nonsense and even more obviously self-contradictory than "anarcho"-capitalism...

It falls within the "it is anarchist because they call themselves anarchists" line of justification, a bit like saying that Nazis were socialists because they called themselves "National Socialists"

best to state it is not anarchist and leave it at that...

Ed's picture
Ed
Offline
Joined: 1-10-03
Feb 24 2008 22:51
Alf wrote:
We have comrades in Mexico who were kidnapped and tortured by Maoists. Comrades in Turkey have been beaten up by Stalinsts. If we look a bit further than Britain right this minute, the idea that we're physically safer from leftists than rightists starts to look a bit tenuous.

Yeah, Alf, I don't doubt that (and its absolutely fucked) but if you read what I wrote...

Ed wrote:
in terms of day-to-day interaction on my street, I'd say that the BNP would represent a marked difference from any leftists..

Its 2008 and I live in Brighton. The situation here is really different to the one in Mexico or Turkey and our activity should reflect that..

Alf's picture
Alf
Offline
Joined: 6-07-05
Feb 24 2008 23:04

And I'm suggesting that we look a bit further than the end of the street.

Carousel
Offline
Joined: 19-09-07
Feb 24 2008 23:45
Quote:
And I'm suggesting that we look a bit further than the end of the street.

Hard luck tales from far way countries to dodge responsibility for what's happening in your own back yard. Besides, on the scale of inconvenience, local racial hatred outranks foreign internecine leftist violence by some orders of magnitude.

yoshomon
Offline
Joined: 19-06-07
Feb 25 2008 18:00

But this is an internet forum with posters from around the world, not someone's neighborhood or backyard...

David in Atlanta
Offline
Joined: 21-04-06
Feb 26 2008 13:53

I was poking about in stormfront and noticed a thread on national "anarchism". I won't link to it, if anyone is interested it's in their "Ideology and Philosophy" forum. It appears that overall the fascists think it's as absurd and contradictory a notion as we do.

ftony
Offline
Joined: 26-05-04
Feb 26 2008 14:00

perhaps we could form a solidarity alliance with them, for the duration of the hostilities?

David in Atlanta
Offline
Joined: 21-04-06
Feb 26 2008 14:16

I'm not always and totally opposed to forming fronts of various types, but that one is a veery bad idea.
wink

Joseph Kay's picture
Joseph Kay
Offline
Joined: 14-03-06
Feb 26 2008 14:23

if the only thing worse than facsism is anti-fascism, where do our left-communist comrades stand on the issue of anti-fascist alliances with fascists? i reckon it sorta evens itself out wink

Carousel
Offline
Joined: 19-09-07
Feb 26 2008 20:28
Quote:
But this is an internet forum with posters from around the world, not someone's neighborhood or backyard...

What of it? Territorially closer things matter more as consequence of random autonomous psychological predilection, not corruption by exchange relations.

Eastern Barbarian
Offline
Joined: 5-12-06
Mar 1 2008 16:09

stop mentioning them, ban them, put blanket of silence over them and kick the shit out of them whenever they appear anywhere around us. Seems to work a treat in most places. dont give them more significance than they have.

magnifico
Offline
Joined: 29-11-05
Mar 1 2008 16:31
Eastern Barbarian wrote:
stop mentioning them, ban them, put blanket of silence over them and kick the shit out of them whenever they appear anywhere around us. Seems to work a treat in most places. dont give them more significance than they have.

you appear to be contradicting yourself, singling them out from people of other political positions that we are hostile to by saying that they should have the shit kicked out of them 'whenever they appear' regardless of the circumstances sounds to me like you are pledging to put a large amount of time and effort into attacking them, not to mention opening yourself up to the risk of injury, imprisonment and even death in doing so.

this sounds to me like you are giving them a huge amount more significance than they really have, certainly round where I live and I would imagine in most other places too.

Deezer
Offline
Joined: 2-10-04
Mar 1 2008 19:04
Eastern Barbarian wrote:
stop mentioning them, ban them, put blanket of silence over them and kick the shit out of them whenever they appear anywhere around us. Seems to work a treat in most places. don't give them more significance than they have.

You are basically talking about handing them martyrs - dumb move.

pale_mouthed_prophet's picture
pale_mouthed_prophet
Offline
Joined: 30-03-08
May 6 2008 00:29

Hiel something! Onward to the glorious futur of por grammr and anarcho-[youradhere].

Chekc out our filosofy at-

uncyclopediadotorg/wiki/Anarcho-fascism

~from the world league of Anarcho-Fascists - that's right, both of us. (He may be dead, but he's a paid up member till the end of this month.)

admin: link broken

David in Atlanta
Offline
Joined: 21-04-06
May 11 2008 15:59
pale_mouthed_prophet wrote:
Hiel something! Onward to the glorious futur of por grammr and anarcho-[youradhere].

Chekc out our filosofy at-

uncyclopediadotorg/wiki/Anarcho-fascism

~from the world league of Anarcho-Fascists - that's right, both of us. (He may be dead, but he's a paid up member till the end of this month.)

admin: link broken

Quote:
Anarcho-fascism is arguably the newest, very arguably the most scientific, and less arguably least hygenic form of anarchism. Indeed, many experts in the field, according to specious reports, have gone so far as to label it "anarchism 2.0". Anarcho-fascists hold their position to have removed all the pesky parts of old anarchism, in the sense that it can mean whatever an individual or group wants it to mean at any given moment to justify their claims, so long as those claims are identical to those of anarcho-fascists.

LOL

pale_mouthed_prophet's picture
pale_mouthed_prophet
Offline
Joined: 30-03-08
May 11 2008 17:42

Your 'LOL' will not save you when the revolution comes and Those Who Look Different And Are Odd are (through a process of direct democracy, workers' councils and/or robot monkeys from hell) put to death in the voluntary camps.

Also, you aren't a real anarchist unless you agree with everything I say/admit that it is un-anarchic to exclude people from anarchism, distinguish between anarchists and so-called 'fake' anarchists, or otherwise attempt to attach any kind of meaning and/or substance to the word anarchism.

So there.

~pmp

Khawaga's picture
Khawaga
Offline
Joined: 7-08-06
May 11 2008 17:53

Ve are nihilists, ve belive in nozing!

Anarchia's picture
Anarchia
Offline
Joined: 18-03-06
May 11 2008 22:29

not even nihilism?

BulimicMind
Offline
Joined: 20-03-08
May 12 2008 01:21
pale_mouthed_prophet wrote:
Your 'LOL' will not save you when the revolution comes and Those Who Look Different And Are Odd are (through a process of direct democracy, workers' councils and/or robot monkeys from hell) put to death in the voluntary camps.

Also, you aren't a real anarchist unless you agree with everything I say/admit that it is un-anarchic to exclude people from anarchism, distinguish between anarchists and so-called 'fake' anarchists, or otherwise attempt to attach any kind of meaning and/or substance to the word anarchism.

So there.

~pmp

LOL

Khawaga's picture
Khawaga
Offline
Joined: 7-08-06
May 12 2008 08:13
Quote:
not even nihilism?

It's a post-modern mystery, innit?

Anarchia's picture
Anarchia
Offline
Joined: 18-03-06
May 12 2008 08:34

Perhaps you should just shorten that to post-mystery? tongue

pale_mouthed_prophet's picture
pale_mouthed_prophet
Offline
Joined: 30-03-08
May 12 2008 09:39

Postnihilism, anyone?

yuda
Offline
Joined: 4-12-04
May 12 2008 09:47

I'm still waiting for Post-postleftism

breakout
Offline
Joined: 25-10-06
May 12 2008 10:25

Just to add an observation,

Anarchist website '3monkeyz.net' are still promoting national anarchism with a (re-posted) positive review of Troy Southgates 'Anarchy in the UK' book, in a 20th April dated post in their review section (Books, Authors, Publications and Posters).

It was posted by 'Madhatterz' who seemingly is the only one to post anything there. As many people here know, it has been pointed out to 3monkeyz previously, that they were linking to a fascist front webpage (anarchy. net - Anarchist's Alliance International) and they have yet to remove the link in their 'Open Talk' section in their forum.

Also, the American zine 'Green Anarchy' ran an article against national anarchism a few years ago:
http://www.greenanarchy.org/index.php?action=viewwritingdetail&writingId=150

BulimicMind
Offline
Joined: 20-03-08
May 12 2008 10:44

Why would they remove a part of a public forum someone else posted?

dh
Offline
Joined: 12-05-08
May 12 2008 11:13

This is business as usual for nationalist and fascist types--in the 1920's and '30's they used the word "socialist" to hide their reactionary shit behind, when state socialism was fashionable. Now they are using the interest in anarchism, or trying to, to trick people into listening to their nonsense. Fucking sneaky bastards.

Angelus Novus
Offline
Joined: 27-07-06
May 12 2008 12:13
dh wrote:
This is business as usual for nationalist and fascist types--in the 1920's and '30's they used the word "socialist" to hide their reactionary shit behind, when state socialism was fashionable. Now they are using the interest in anarchism, or trying to, to trick people into listening to their nonsense. Fucking sneaky bastards.

This kind of thinking assumes that fascists merely take on the ideological trappings of the left out of sheer deviousness.

In truth, when fascists appropriate nominally "left" symbols or ideas, it is because elements of those ideas are compatible with fascist worldviews. Thus, Che Guevara's nationalism, statist socialism, Palestinian anti-semitism, and anarchist conceptions of "natural" society vs. a superimposed, "unnatural" state are all eminently compatible with a far-right worldview.

One of the dumbest mistakes that Anti-fascists can make is to assume that right-wing appropriation of left symbols and ideas is merely cynical. In my experience, Nazis who wear Che t-shirts and Palestinian scarves are dead serious.

It is not bad faith to point out that thinkers like Proudhon and Sorel are points of reference for both anarchists and fascists. This does not mean that anarchism is synonymous with fascism, or that bourgeois theories of "totalitarianism" are to be given any credence, but it does mean that the left needs to be self-critical about which of its ideas are merely affirmative of existing social relations.

breakout
Offline
Joined: 25-10-06
May 12 2008 14:53

Well, BulimicMind, if 3monkeyz.net want to use their 'anarchist' website to give a platform for fascists, I suggest they leave it right there. If anyone checks out the review I'll think they'll find it reads in favour of Southgate's ideas, it has been up there since 20th April without any critical comments from 3monkeyz admins.

tsi
Offline
Joined: 4-04-08
May 12 2008 15:11
Angelus Novus wrote:
dh wrote:
This is business as usual for nationalist and fascist types--in the 1920's and '30's they used the word "socialist" to hide their reactionary shit behind, when state socialism was fashionable. Now they are using the interest in anarchism, or trying to, to trick people into listening to their nonsense. Fucking sneaky bastards.

This kind of thinking assumes that fascists merely take on the ideological trappings of the left out of sheer deviousness.

In truth, when fascists appropriate nominally "left" symbols or ideas, it is because elements of those ideas are compatible with fascist worldviews. Thus, Che Guevara's nationalism, statist socialism, Palestinian anti-semitism, and anarchist conceptions of "natural" society vs. a superimposed, "unnatural" state are all eminently compatible with a far-right worldview.

One of the dumbest mistakes that Anti-fascists can make is to assume that right-wing appropriation of left symbols and ideas is merely cynical. In my experience, Nazis who wear Che t-shirts and Palestinian scarves are dead serious.

It is not bad faith to point out that thinkers like Proudhon and Sorel are points of reference for both anarchists and fascists. This does not mean that anarchism is synonymous with fascism, or that bourgeois theories of "totalitarianism" are to be given any credence, but it does mean that the left needs to be self-critical about which of its ideas are merely affirmative of existing social relations.

I'd certainly agree about self-criticism, however, if you look at the way that these guys throw around catchphrases, jargon, and political labels (for the most part stripped of any meaning whatsoever), you've got to think that lots of this is cynical and deliberate.

pale_mouthed_prophet's picture
pale_mouthed_prophet
Offline
Joined: 30-03-08
May 12 2008 19:33

Anarchism and Fascism are clearly compatible in many areas:

*)Mussolini was a socialist in his youth, and the Fascist party first ran with a vaguely leftist policy platform.
*)Both of them absolutely fucking hate the [rest of the] left, especially the trots.
*)Um...
*)Ummmmmmmmmmm...

etc.