Crazy people

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j.rogue
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May 25 2007 06:13
Crazy people

I am curious about what folks here think should be done with crazy folks after The Rev.

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Anarchia
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May 25 2007 06:29

thats a pretty fucking offensively worded question (and I say that as a "crazy person"). What makes you think we should do anything about "them" (a false seperation if ever there was one...)

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Steven.
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May 25 2007 08:24

Yeah I don't think "crazy"'s in the DSM IV...

Steggsie
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May 25 2007 09:58

Ah yes, you mean that paragon of scientific objectivity?

j.rogue
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May 25 2007 15:47

Yeah, seriously. The DSM lists being transgendered as a mental disorder. Really though. I am curious as to how people expect to handle mental illness in a radical way.

tastypudding
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May 25 2007 16:18

the question is impossible to answer in this universality.

and as has been said, this

j.rogue wrote:
should be done with crazy folks after The Rev.

is a pretty strange way to word it. i hope you don´t think that those "crazy folks" shouldn´t have a say in what "should be done with them".

j.rogue
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May 25 2007 16:21

I agree, but "sane" folks are going to have to have a hand in whatever structures exist to deal with "crazy folks" (unless people are gonna quarentine crazy types) so i am wondering what people on this board think. Also, I don't think of the word "crazy" as an insult, by the way.

lem
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May 25 2007 16:28

hey: i wrote a dissertation on this: it's not a category mistake; it's instrumental; and should be run as a savage democracy.

technically not limited to after the revolution though.

besides which: i reckon it's all about feminism. that's how stuff is linked with rubbish stuff. and it's (feminism) like internationalism (- in my conscience, anyway). and the anarchoids (wink) know it cos they adore the feminism in spain back in the say. i digress tho.

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MJ
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May 25 2007 16:32

Threat to themselves, threat to others, threat to collective productivity? Wanting to mess with children? What kind of crazy are we talking. The biggest problem with mental-illness-or-whatever here in the US is that Reagan defunded a lot of the budget in the 80s, and a lot of severely mentally ill people ended up homeless. Though I guess in terms of scope the tendency toward pharmaceutical dependence etc might be considered a bigger problem.

lem
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May 25 2007 16:42

^^ way to be cool mate!

are you a fucking threat to other people? are you going to say when someone is permitted to take their life? No doubt roll eyes

lem
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May 25 2007 16:43

your a slave to your own ethic mate.

lem
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May 25 2007 16:47

leave be if it's for the best. trouble is, no-one knows what's best for them, least of anarchoids imo. ffs, no attempt even to engage with what psychotcs say, which frankly is typical of someting.

lem
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May 25 2007 16:49

i mean, a lesser man than me, might think that the idea of psychosis messes with the clean rational unified world dream you have. but i don't wanna "alienate" myself further from these here boards.

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MJ
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May 25 2007 17:04
lem wrote:
are you a fucking threat to other people? are you going to say when someone is permitted to take their life? No doubt

No, I'm fine with people killing themselves. That's why I was explicitly asking "what level," and drawing a distinction between that and the rest.

lem
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May 25 2007 17:39

^^ seriously?

child abuse has nothing to do with psychosis, so i don't see that the need to bring it up. internet, eh.

magnifico
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May 25 2007 17:53

I think there will be a hell of a lot less 'mental illness' after the revolution, since it basically what happens when someone is unable to cope with the situation they are in, and is thus far more common amongst the working class than among people with fewer problems. Of course after the revolution there will still be people who can't cope with family situations or whatever, and I'd say that the main difference would be that they should be more helped helped through their problems rather than just 'contained' - at the moment many people are locked up in a way which is most beneficial for the 'system' rather than themselves,ie they're 'chemically restrained' and suchlike.

As for proper violent, dangerous people whose danger is a result of being 'crazy' there aren't actually very many of them, and I'm not really sure what should happen after the revolution in this area. I'll have a think.

pingu
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May 26 2007 10:23

Dare I mention "Capitalism and Schizophrenia" by Deleuze and Guitarstring? They have something to say about this but I'm not sure what though! Seriously though schizophrenia has been defined in many ways...sometimes it is just an excuse for locking up somebody whose role in capitalism is disturbing or innaproppriate, sometimes it is meaningless and sometimes it may corespond to something actual.Laing meant it in a different way from the likes of ,say Melanie Klein or Whatshisname Fairbairn....

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thugarchist
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May 26 2007 10:46
MJ wrote:

No, I'm fine with people killing themselves.

I actively support it .

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Lazy Riser
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May 26 2007 12:52
Quote:
Really though. I am curious as to how people expect to handle mental illness in a radical way.

What does radical mean. Sort of lefty-flavoured, or more effectively, or what? In terms of the disorders we encounter day-to-day, I recommend developing a satisfying sex life using Character Analysis .

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Anarchia
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May 26 2007 13:46

Here's some stuff I've written about it vaguely recently...only the very early not-even-beginnings, but feel free to read...

Mental Illness: My Struggle

Building "mad" friendly communities

Depression & Support

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Bodach gun bhrigh
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May 26 2007 14:52

go magnifico!

magnifico
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May 26 2007 15:55
Bodach gun bhrigh wrote:
go magnifico!

go where? wink

Asher wrote:
Here's some stuff I've written about it vaguely recently...only the very early not-even-beginnings, but feel free to read...

Thanks Asher - good stuff cool

Asher wrote:
this is the belief that the sole cause of mental illness is the current capitalist, racist, patriarchal society we live in, and “after the revolution there won’t be mental illness”. To quote from an article I wrote a while ago:
Yes, it is entirely possible (and even likely) that the current society does make mental illness more common. But, just like how even in an anarchist society cancer would still exist, influenza would still exist, likewise mental illness would still exist. You might think you’re making a political statement when you say it, but what you’re really doing is invalidating the feelings and experiences of your friends and family that suffer every day

I hope my post above didn't come across that way. I do think a lot of the reasons behind 'mental illness' are social/societal, but obviously not all and as you correctly point out even if that was true that's no excuse not to deal with it in the here and now.

j.rogue
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May 26 2007 16:33

Good stuff, Asher. Are you ever on Icarus?

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Lone Wolf
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May 26 2007 17:18

Yeah way to go Ash cool

But re: the first link - does this site not ban the racist, fascist trolls ...or did they do so after...cos there was no trolling in your other links??

I am sorry those creeps posted.. it takes a lot of guts to post in a honest way about vulnerability..those creeps do not know the meaning of the word courage...angry You however do. cool

Love

LW X

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lucy_parsons
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May 26 2007 17:39

Great articles, Asher, especially the one about "mad"-friendly communities. I'm not sure how much you know about Maggie's Mental Health Act of the 80's (probably more than me) but it seems to me that one of the main flaws is the lack of provision for community-based compulsory treatment. The trouble is, everytime there's debate about introducing this, people harp on about what a failure Care in the Community was. I was wondering what your thoughts were, and if there's community-based treatments where you live?

Peter Good
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May 26 2007 18:05

I'm intrigued when people link "radical", "treatment" and "madness" together.

I was once a practitioner in official psychiatry and considered myself at the cutting edge of radical practice.

Then I undertook a doctorate that looked at psychiatry from the perspectives of mischief and pretence.

Part of this project involved me going to live as an in-patient - a "psuedopatient" - in a psychiatric clinic for three days. I reckoned I learned more about psychiatry in that short period of time than in all of my previous career.

If you are interested my book : "Language for those who have nothing" gives all the grim details (I believe it's online somewhere).

Psychiatry's fundamental mistake was to align itself with scientific medicine. Had it chosen say, education, novel employment schemes, moral therapy - things might have been different.

I also think the belief that misery and dispair will come to a halt after the revolution errs into the utopian.

Regards
Peter Good(TCA)

lem
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May 27 2007 03:03

yeah i'm thinking about trying to do a masters in gis - a mapping computer program. anyway, thinking of for the project, getting people who are still regularly instituionalized and others who have not, to create their own maps of what makes them feel good/safe/etc. and less good/safe/etc.. then analyzing how they understand those maps. something like that anyway.

can anyone give any friendly advice on ways to improve on or understand better this idea? i won't be a undergraduate student, so friendly advice only grin

lem
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May 27 2007 03:04

i think it's at heart quite a nice idea. i'd like my own map of places that i like and that.

lem
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May 27 2007 04:10

hi peter good btw, do you assocaite with ian parker at all? what do you think of his work?

i've emailed him a couple of times and he seems like a friendly guy. does anyone go to [his] manshester seminars etc. on lacan? if not, why?

Jason Cortez
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May 27 2007 10:27

I don't, because i live in London smile

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Lone Wolf
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May 27 2007 20:25
Jason Cortez wrote:
I don't, because i live in London :)

Well you are just sooooo unmotivated... roll eyes wink