HIV causing AIDS, and "dissidents"

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coffeemachine
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Dec 11 2006 08:39
Joseph K. wrote:
coffeemachine, you can compare your opponents to joe macarthy all you like, but that doesn't change the fact that you are the one challenging the prevailing orthodoxy so the onus is on you to produce the evidence - your insistence everyone (John. in particular) has a personal view on HIV/AIDS is meaningless - no-one on this thread, including some posters with medical training, knows enough to critically evaluate the claims of the 'dissidents', and thus we have to defer to the general consensus, albeit not unthinkingly.

I mean, actually fuck it, i don't believe in gravity, there are all sorts of contradictions in it, and although we can observe it and its effects, i don't think it exists or is the real cause of falling down. Now what's your position cm (no wikipedia links now)? i don't think it exists, and you can't ask me to prove a negative. In fact i read some stuff with some very long words i didn't understand that said there's no such thing as gravity, it's just a part of the state's gravi-political manipulations, a conspiracy to conceal that capitalism is really what keeps the working class anchored to the earth ... roll eyes

joseph, i have no wish to convince you or anyone else of anything. This is John's thread remember and it was he who insisted on calling people "nutters" "mental" "crazy". He must have some knowledge, some information, some of his own ideas to reinforce those claims. That is what i am challenging him on.

If you don't believe in gravity then i will in no way impede that belief or call you a "nutter" because of it.

Accordingly:
If a large proportion of the scientific community said gravity was causing the irreversible immune suppression in people you would expect a degree of certainty in their methods and application. If there are inconsistencies, flaws and contradictions in that hypothesis you would call into question and one would hope demand clarification in how gravity causes an irreversible immune suppression.

That fact that you call into question something would then make you a dissident.

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Joseph Kay
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Dec 11 2006 08:51
coffeemachine wrote:
That is what i am challenging him on.

If you don't belief in gravity then i will in no way impede that belief or call you a "nutter" because of it.

you see, i think you'd be pretty justified in calling me a "nutter" there tbh - what if i helped a magazine denying gravity with seemingly intelligent arguments for the lay-reader encouraging people to jump off buildings?

There are always inconsistencies in a body of knowledge because our knowledge is always partial, but the comparison to intelligent designists is apt; the existence of controversies and contradictions within a field do not automatically undermine the field itself, in fact they are a vital part of its development.

So let's get this straight - you've "no wish to convince me or anyone else of anything" - you're simply asking John. to back up his (somewhat throwaway) nutter comment. but having said you wouldn't call me a nutter for gravity denial, it just seems you're operating on a different meaning of 'nutter' to the accepted mainstream usage (wink) - one that doesn't cover HIV-denial either.

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Steven.
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Dec 11 2006 10:12

Coffeemachine, you're trying to get me to waste my time spelling out my understanding of HIV and AIDS, which accords to current scientific consensus, as outlined by that wikipedia page, or I could give you hundreds of other links to other pages. I'm not going to write a big essay for an HIV denier; nor would I write an essay outlining my views on evolution to a creationist or the Holocaust to Holocaust denier.

You've been asked lots of questions, which are not backed up backed backed up by the overwhelming weight of scientific data. You are refusing to answer them, instead playing games trying to get me to write you essays.

Surely you could answer the question about whether you helped out at an HIV-denying journal? If you hadn't you'd think you would have denied it by now...

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Choccy
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Apr 4 2007 20:18

Just as an aside, as part of my research on the Intelligent design movement, I came across a few major ID advocates form the Discovery Institute (Philip E.Johnson and Jonathan Wells) that are also HIV - AIDS sceptics and signatories on virusmyth.net , as well as being into stuff like climate-change denial.
http://www.aidstruth.org/strange-bedfellows.php

A wikipedia search also says Nate Mendel from Foo Fighters is an AIDS-dissident!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_reappraisal

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