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The Internationalist Communist Group - barmy, or not?

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Steven.
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Apr 12 2007 15:07
The Internationalist Communist Group - barmy, or not?

The Internationalist Communist Group - so are they totally nuts?

I mean they seem to have written some interesting stuff (albeit with very archaic and bombastic language), but then they come up with stuff like this: http://libcom.org/library/so-as-not-to-die-stupid-aids-communism-8

Anyone know anything about them?

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Devrim
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Apr 12 2007 15:11

Yes, I do. What do you want to know?
Devrim

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Steven.
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Apr 12 2007 15:19

Where are they based? Still active? how many of them? Do they believe any other conspiracy theories? Why do they write like that?

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Devrim
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Apr 12 2007 16:13
John. wrote:
Where are they based?

There central address is in Belgium. They are very secretive. They publish in other languages, and I would presume they have members, sympathisers in some other countries.

Quote:
Still active?

Yes

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how many of them?

No idea, I would imagine they are very small.

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Do they believe any other conspiracy theories?

Yes, they have what I consider to be the ultimate one.

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Why do they write like that?

I'd put it down to a few things. To be kind I would say that they are poor translations from French which has a very different style to English in political writing.

They are a split from the ICC, who have condemed them a lot recently. I am sure the ICC will pop up, and give you links to the relevant articles.

Devrim

fruitloop
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Apr 12 2007 16:22

Oh great.

I thought this was gonna be about the International Composers Guild - they were pretty nuts.

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Steven.
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Apr 12 2007 16:34
Jack wrote:
Quote:
Yes, they have what I consider to be the ultimate one.

What is it?

Not the Jews or the Illuminati is it?!

ernie
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Apr 12 2007 17:06

Devrim, no sooner said than done. Here is our latest article on the GCI

What is the GCI [http://en.internationalism.org/ir/124_gci_icg]

nastyned
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Apr 12 2007 17:37

Could you give me a brief summary ernie? Are they parasitic elements or are they in the pay of the french secret state? wink

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Apr 12 2007 18:12
nastyned wrote:
Could you give me a brief summary ernie? Are they parasitic elements or are they in the pay of the french secret state? ;-)

Actually Ned, I think that they are quite a dangerous tendency in that their pseudo-radicalism, and fetishism of violence can seem attractive to those new to communist politics. People who were involved in forming our organisation, EKS, were in touch with them for example, and they are not the only people I have heard about who have had connections with them (going back to the London post-split Wildcat). I don't think that they are in the pay of the French state, but I don't think that there is anything positive in them as a group.

Devrim

David in Atlanta
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Apr 12 2007 20:57

I had just read a essay they wrote on class composition of the Iraqi insurgents which i thought was fairly good. i wasn't nearly as convinced of the working class character and autonomy of the armed rebels as the icg seems to be but i thought it was a useful work if a bit speculative, which they admitted.

Attacking military biological research is all fine and dandy, writing a rather good account of the pain and frustration of standing with a dying comrade is wonderful. Going from either of those to a full blown attack on science and medicine takes leaps of logic i can't follow..

john
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Apr 12 2007 22:25

Please, someone tell the "ultimate" conspiracy theory!!

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Apr 12 2007 22:46

Nastyned asked (ironically): "Could you give me a brief summary ernie? Are they parasitic elements or are they in the pay of the french secret state?"

It would be better to challenge the original question on this thread: are the ICG "barmy"? Of course, irrational and insane behaviour is increasing in all spheres of this rotting society but barminess is hardly an adequate starting point for analysing the real nature of political organisations, because it doesn't pose the problem in class terms. Parasitism, on the other hand, is a term that has a tradition in the workers' movement - Marx and Engels originally applied it to Bakunin's secret 'International' within the International. And the integration of political organisations into the state apparatus has all too many precedents in the history of the workers' movement.

In our view the ICG are certainly parasitic, in the sense that they feed off the left communist tradition in a particularly destructive way. We agree with Devrim that their fascination with violence is extremely dangerous. Especially when it goes with a caricature of internationalism, as in their position on Iraq, which amounts to an apology for the 'resistance' and even for the attacks of 9/11, as we argue in this article: http://en.internationalism.org/icconline/2006/groupe-communiste-internationaliste

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Apr 12 2007 23:38

You've got me bang to rights there Revol. The bit you quoted was barmy through and through.

Still: political organisations, class nature, two closely linked issues, no?

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Apr 13 2007 10:25
Quote:
Please, someone tell the "ultimate" conspiracy theory!!

Yeah, Devrim what is it?

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Steven.
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Apr 13 2007 11:24
revol68 wrote:
I think it's quite clear the ICG are barmy as shown by this,
Quote:
Already some of the proletarians affected by the same poison [AIDS] that condemned you, have started to avenge their future deaths - by biting police and other agents of the State who have sought to control them, until they have drawn blood. Proletarian resistance will always find a suitable response to the most twisted forms of capitalist aggression!

OMG I didn't see that. That's not just nuts it's fucking sick!

tigersiskillers
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Apr 13 2007 15:59
ICG article wrote:
Science, Capital's barbarism!

Tagline?

ftony
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Apr 13 2007 16:38
atlemk wrote:
Quote:
Please, someone tell the "ultimate" conspiracy theory!!

Yeah, Devrim what is it?

thirded!

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Apr 13 2007 16:48
ftony wrote:
atlemk wrote:
Quote:
Please, someone tell the "ultimate" conspiracy theory!!

Yeah, Devrim what is it?

thirded!

fourthed?

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Joseph Kay
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Apr 13 2007 16:50

are they creationists?

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Joseph Kay
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Apr 13 2007 16:51

actually that's not a conspiracy, unless god mulled it over with the mrs neutral

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georgestapleton
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Apr 13 2007 17:18

whose god's mrs?

Mary?

Wasn't she twelve. Eurgh, God was a nonce. Hey maybe thats it maybe they're into a dan-brown-esque cover up about a god-paedophilia-creation-myth.

Spikymike
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Apr 13 2007 17:31

Actually there was some pre Wildcat 'split' contact with ICG members who came over to visit.

We were developing our own critique of 'democracy' and found a lot of their work on this a useful aid to our efforts.

I have conitnued to distribute some of this material at meetings and other events to good effect I think.

They have also produced some ocassional analysis of other aspects of the class struggle outside the so called 'capitalist heartlands' which I have found useful. I recall one on Nigeria for instance which I thought was quite good.

Most of these tracts were however produced some time ago and more recent material seems of less value. Also since I don't read French and their English material is thin on the ground, I'm not sure where they are at presently, though I would be wary of accepting on face value any criticism levelled by the ICC at any of their Ex comrades.

We were always suspicious of their excessively secretive and elitist approach to organisation so more regular links never materialised. Their attraction to 'violence' was difficult to pin down and at least open to question.

The best thing is to check them out on their Web site yourselves though best if you read French.

PS Tried to post this last night but my connection to this site crashed out for some reason?

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Apr 13 2007 18:14

"though I would be wary of accepting on face value any criticism levelled by the ICC at any of their Ex comrades".

You can (warily, of course) check out the articles we have linked on this thread, which are based on numerous citations of their texts.

I would say that providing arguments why "internationalist communists" should rejoice in the destruction of the Twin Towers, or support the bombing of the UN building in Baghdad as a proletarian action, is rather more serious than being "of less value". But don't take it from me. There is an English translation of the article which puts forward these ideas on the Anti-politics forum.

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Apr 14 2007 01:39

Well, I am another who would be sceptical about any criticism levelled by the ICC against ex-comrades, because sometimes It's seemed like they've stretched things a bit.

And in fact I was skeptical of their critiques of the ICG when I first ran across them a year ago... however I eventually lost interest in the ICG, until recently. Their style is barmy, but it's fascinating at times.

However I was reading through some of their stuff recently, and their older stuff was interesting - but when I read the ICC's criticism of them this time rung true, I believe. The fact that they do support the bombing of the twin towers, or the UN building in Iraq, is disgusting.

The argument that the insurgency is composed of 'recuperated proletarians' is just as true as it is for the US amred forces, and all armies that ever existed.

alibadani
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Apr 14 2007 15:20

It seems the ICG believe that there are no imperialist rivalries, that there is some sort of global state running things. A litlle Illuminati-esque global ruling class. Maybe that's Dev's "ultimate conspiracy"

Moshehess
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Apr 14 2007 15:30

I have to add a point to this discussion.

There are so many good comments about the Internationalist Communist Group but it sounds very self-righteous and that you guys think you and your groups are all-that.

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Apr 15 2007 16:36
alibadani wrote:
It seems the ICG believe that there are no imperialist rivalries, that there is some sort of global state running things. A litlle Illuminati-esque global ruling class. Maybe that's Dev's "ultimate conspiracy"

Yes, pretty much so.

Devrim

Reeve
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Apr 15 2007 21:29

This comment has been moved <a href="<em>http://libcom.org/forums/feedback-and-content/john#comment-183259</em>">here</a>.

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Apr 15 2007 22:04

great post!

Battlescarred
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Apr 24 2007 11:23

Hang on, there was something nagging me and then I remembered what it was. Wasn't Devrim a member of the ICG at one time, cos somebody else who knew him from then thinks so too!?!

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Apr 24 2007 11:31
Battlescarred wrote:
Hang on, there was something nagging me and then I remembered what it was. Wasn't Devrim a member of the ICG at one time, cos somebody else who knew him from then thinks so too!?!

No, I wasn't. I was a member of Wildcat, some people in which were quite close to them. I met themas far as I am aware on one occasion (I wouldn't say for sure as they are secretive to the point of paranoia, and other people I knew at the time may have been in their organisation).

On a related point, I think that they have got much worse since those days though looking at it with hindsight it is possible to see the trajectory.

Devrim