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Poll - Are school-teachers in the working class?

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lem
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Jul 25 2007 13:59

so who are openly classist [/just tell me to check library if etc.]?

tbh i do despair at all the posing sometimes. but i think it's just that my illness has given me a hard time about fashion and that before.

lem
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Jul 25 2007 14:04

bring back ingra [-the ex icc bod confused] angry

lem
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Jul 25 2007 14:05

readers may be interested in this thread? http://libcom.org/forums/thought/the-circled-a-and-its-parasites

eta: soz for the triple post - John. having a kind word to say to me must have got me too excited laugh out loud

knightrose
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Jul 25 2007 14:07

Where am I supposed to get the money from to buy another property to rent out? If I lose my job I'm stuffed.
1.

knightrose
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Jul 25 2007 14:08
pingtiao wrote:
3/ it depends on whether they also have investments in property that they gain a rental income from, or are owners of businesses.
i.e. exactly the same way of deciding class as I would apply to any other profession

What makes you think it's a profession? It's just another white collar job. Professionalism is an ideological tool the bosses use against us.

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Steven.
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Jul 25 2007 14:09
knightrose wrote:
pingtiao wrote:
3/ it depends on whether they also have investments in property that they gain a rental income from, or are owners of businesses.
i.e. exactly the same way of deciding class as I would apply to any other profession

What makes you think it's a profession? It's just another white collar job. Professionalism is an ideological tool the bosses use against us.

When ping says "profession" there he just means "job"

JonC
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Jul 25 2007 14:39

Bit late here, but 1 and 4.

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Choccy
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Jul 25 2007 14:48
John. wrote:
1) Yes
4) stupid question, because it's obviously yes

agreed

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Choccy
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Jul 25 2007 14:52
knightrose wrote:
pingtiao wrote:
3/ it depends on whether they also have investments in property that they gain a rental income from, or are owners of businesses.
i.e. exactly the same way of deciding class as I would apply to any other profession

What makes you think it's a profession? It's just another white collar job. Professionalism is an ideological tool the bosses use against us.

Don't you know - thing magically become profession when you have to get a bit of paper to qualify you to do it?
In fairness it's pretty obvious he just mean "job" - after all he is going into the medical "profession" wink

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jef costello
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Jul 25 2007 14:55
xConorx wrote:
In fairness it's pretty obvious he just mean "job" - after all he is going into the medical "profession" ;)

I'm not sure I'd classify persuading illegal immigrants to sell their kidneys as a profession.

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pingtiao
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Jul 25 2007 15:00
John. wrote:
knightrose wrote:
pingtiao wrote:
3/ it depends on whether they also have investments in property that they gain a rental income from, or are owners of businesses.
i.e. exactly the same way of deciding class as I would apply to any other profession

What makes you think it's a profession? It's just another white collar job. Professionalism is an ideological tool the bosses use against us.

When ping says "profession" there he just means "job"

Yes, sorry- I meant "skilled job", but "job" would have done just as well.

As an aside- the "low-skilled" work of administration is essentially what 90% of people working for charities do, and yet to get a job with many (most?) charities you have to do an unpaid internship lasting for months- something that only a tiny proportion of people have the background to allow.

lem
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Jul 25 2007 15:00

very narcissistic i heard. bunch of losers roll eyes

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Steven.
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Jul 25 2007 15:04
pingtiao wrote:
As an aside- the "low-skilled" work of administration is essentially what 90% of people working for charities do, and yet to get a job with many (most?) charities you have to do an unpaid internship lasting for months- something that only a tiny proportion of people have the background to allow.

Not in the couple of charities I've worked for, but that may be the case for some I guess.

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pingtiao
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Jul 25 2007 15:18

<aside>That was the reason why my girl left the charity sector, and why it took her so long to get an admin job... When she moved to London she worked for one place for 6 days a week for £13K</aside>

I know it isn't the case for all charities, but it is something that I have heard from loads of other people- perhaps it is mostly just small places...

lem
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Jul 25 2007 16:18

i suppose this place has gone down hill laugh out loud

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thugarchist
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Jul 25 2007 16:44

Wayne "The Hammer" Price was a school teacher. So 1 and 4.

yelt
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Jul 25 2007 17:19

'Voting' is currently as follows. I have been strict and only counted 'votes' where people have explicitly chosen an option. That way I don't have to interpret anything.

Poll - Are school-teachers in the working class

1) yes.........................12, including 9 who also said 'stupid question
2) no.........................3
3) it depends.........0
4) stupid question.......3, plus the 9 mentioned above
5) don't know........................0
6) none of the above...........0

So out of the yes and no people, the count is running at 80% yes and 20% no.

Maybe the 'yes' people, including the 'yes, and it's a stupid question' people, would like to state whether they themselves are, or have ever been, school-teachers??

That would be interesting. Whichever way you look at it, people's experiences and actions determine how they think, right?

(I included option 6) because I didn't want to make restrictive assumptions about how other people think).

It doesn't surprise me that three-quarters of the 'yes' people have said it's a stupid question, whereas none of us 'no' people have said that.

It's something most of you 'yes' types don't want to talk about much, isn't it?! It must be! You don't want to spend time considering questions you think are 'stupid', right?

Am I right in thinking that the 3 people who only voted '4' (stupid question) (refused, khawaga, and rkn) all think that yes, school-teachers are in the working class? I'd be interested to know why you three think it's stupid, anyway.

Interesting poll, huh?

john - Funny you should mention Ken Loach. He made the superb 'Cathy Come Home', which rang huge numbers of bells with my family's experiences. I somehow doubt it rang any with yours.

All you know about a bell anyway would be that it's a message for you rather than for your prisoners. Don't want 'em squirming in their seats unless at your instigation, eh?

Still less, I suspect, do you know about homelessness and getting crapped on by social security, social services, the medical cops, the official cops etc. Anyway all of the latter are in the same category as school-teachers. All of these cunts can and do ruin working class people's lives, and they get off on it too. That's part of their 'job'.

Talk about 'sides' in the class war.

Guydebordisdead - I knew GD and the piece of writing that you take your handle from (I don't know whether or not you wrote it) is the purest shit.

John's going on about an Openly Classist member/peripheral. I'm sure it must mean something. Care to enlighten me? I'm all ears, John. Why not take the podium and talk down to me. Imagine I'm a schoolkid or sommat? Bet you can't do it without sarcasm though!

Lastly, Guydebordisdead, although I put 'male' as 'gender' here, the reason I did was because I never bother taking care to fill in those things, I just grab the first item I pull down. I'm actually a woman, so not a 'fun guy' at all.

knightrose - I agree with you. School-teacher is not a profession. A profession would mean 1) that you understood (on paper anyway) that you were the parents' clients, 2) that you had professional indemnity insurance of some kind, and 3) you were licenced by some professional body which would investigate complaints about you.

Solicitor, barrister, medic, chartered surveyor, chartered accountant, etc. - they are all professions.

You are not working class but you are paid staff in the same way that a police offer is. Whilst legally the parents are responsible for education, there's no way any school-teacher is ever going to accept that they are working for clients, or even that the institution of the school is. (Which even applies at most public schools, except for the minority of the very richest pupils, whose parents of course can tell the school what to do, can 'endow' sports facilities or whatever).

I went to the thread here referring to Openly Classist and 'educating' but the link didn't work. Can someone post a link to whatever piece you are talking about. It sounds interesting. Thanks.

yelt

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Joseph Kay
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Jul 25 2007 17:24

i'm not a teacher, never been a teacher, and i had some pretty shit experiences with some of them at school/college. they're still blatantly working class.

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MJ
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Jul 25 2007 17:35

yelt:

Are bank tellers in the working class?

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Serge Forward
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Jul 25 2007 17:41

What about option 7 for "Yaaaawn...."

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jef costello
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Jul 25 2007 17:56

Yelt I have been a school teacher, but I currently teach in a university. Cracking the minds of youngsters gave me a sense of power, but although most of my older students have already been shaped by my fellow-oppressors I find that the rare ones who still have spirit give me an immense sense of achievement when I finally break them.
When one of my students cast aside his Kheffiyeh and said he was going to join the police when he graduated it was one of the greatest achievements of my life, in fact I hadn't cum so hard since I read the end of 1984.

Quote:
God, I wish I could be there when they break you. I wish I could walk in just as it happens, so right then, you'd know it was me.

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about, I wish I had the chance to work for Agent Smith.

lem
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Jul 25 2007 17:57

hey - was my vote included confused

lem
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Jul 25 2007 18:01

watch jef go [and mobilize his class ;)]! laugh out loud

eta: sorry again.

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Rob Ray
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Jul 25 2007 18:07

Are print workers working class? I mean they print the papers which help enslave the masses after all.
Are clothes manufacturers working class? I mean they create brands which reinforce the ideological hegemony of capital after all.
Are Dogs working class? I mean they shit on the pavements of the poor after all.

Are teachers working class? Yes. Don't be a dick.

lem
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Jul 25 2007 18:09
Quote:
Are teachers working class? Yes. Don't be a dick.

i can't see that working saii laugh out loud laugh out loud

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Choccy
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Jul 25 2007 18:13

Are bus-drivers working class? I mean they take money off me and if i don't conform they can use their position to deny me the use of public tranportation system.
Are rent-a-cop security guards or bouncers working class? I mean, ultimately they're in a position in which can deny entry into an establishment to anyone they deem a threat to said establishment based on their subjective judgement.
Are library-assistants working class? I mean they can deny me access to books and information if I owe a 50p fine that the MAN has told them to recoup, they're basically just there to mediate the power relationship.
roll eyes

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Choccy
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Jul 25 2007 18:18

Oh actually I trained as a secondary teacher but I now do educational research

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jambo1
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Jul 25 2007 18:29

2 no they are not

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jambo1
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Jul 25 2007 18:46

well if thats the case i will once again vote 2!! twisted

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Nate
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Jul 25 2007 19:01

Dunno if voting's closed but I vote 1) yes.