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The concrete expression of ideology

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Lemming
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Joined: 19-09-03
Apr 18 2004 15:43

Regarding "similar longings", I'm sure fascists share some of these with primitivists, and anarchists in general. People don't become fascists just because they want to be enslaved -- they do so because they mistakenly think that the ideology offers something not to be found in liberal capitalist society. The problems with fascism do not include malaise with the staus quo, but the ways in which this malaise is developed into an authoritarian ideology that misunderstands the present system and advocates something even worse.

Leninists surely have many more "longings" that we can sympathize with, but I dare say that the differences between our worldviews are sufficiently different to rule out collaboration and make claims of tangible similarity absurd. Your attempt to link primitivism to fascism is even more so.

Lemming
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Joined: 19-09-03
Apr 18 2004 15:45

So we could get back to Vaneigemappreciationclub's original topic starter which was 'the development of the urban milieu is the capitalist domestication of space' .....

Oh yeah. Sorry smile

coyote
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Joined: 28-03-04
Apr 18 2004 16:36

okay back "on task" wink

RTS were a good example of a critique of space both in theory and practise...

also check out

"Formula for a New Urbanism" by ivan chetchglov (it was in the SI anthology by ken knabb but i know there are occasional cheap pamphlet versions...and it'll be on the net somewhere.

try here: http://library.nothingness.org/articles/SI/en/display/1

and also "Everytime a billboard falls a landscape is created" which is a critique of the colonisation of visual space. i suspect this is hard to get hold of, so if anyone is interested i'll try and put some of it online somehow. let me know...

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cantdocartwheels
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Joined: 15-03-04
Apr 19 2004 09:53
Lemming wrote:
but the ways in which this malaise is developed into an authoritarian ideology that misunderstands the present system and advocates something even worse.

.

well yes thats my point, anarcho primitiovism attempts to blame the entire human race for the actions of the bourgeoisie and then condemns 99% of humanity to extermination

Racial fascism blames sections of the human race for the actions of the bourgeoisie and then condemns a large percentage of the population to extinction.

The only difference is that fascism is a more real threat whereas primitivism by reccomending a path of action that results in the deaths of the vast majority of the population alienates itself from mass support.

Basically primitivism is even more stupid.

john

llantwit
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Joined: 21-10-03
Apr 19 2004 12:42
Quote:
It is telling that so very few 'revolutionary' currents have failed to even mention urban space in their critique.

Like a lot of previous posters - I wouldn't agree with this. Engels wrote some extremely perceptive shit about the way that northern industrial towns like Manchester were constructed to maintain contemporary class relations.

I've also read some stuff on how when London was redesigned in the nineteenth century it was built to purposefully make mass protest very difficult - same goes for the grand boulevards in Paris (an't remember where, though).

In the Engels try the chapter on 'The Great Towns' here:

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/condition-working-class/index.htm