Anarchist solutions to conflict in northern ireland

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Skips
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Jul 14 2009 19:03
Anarchist solutions to conflict in northern ireland

Was reading the news earlier. I read petrol bombs were thrown at the riot police in northern ireland, Belfast I believe. I also read that live rounds were apparently fired at the riot police and the finger is being pointed at the real ira.

Obviously the nationalists/republicans were annoyed with the orange order march. How can this situation ever change? I mean the divide is still there, paint wont hide the cracks forever.

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PartyBucket
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Jul 14 2009 23:00

Pretty standard fare for the 12th, really. The 'dissident' elements trying to show a bit of clout, now that Sinn Fein are urging people not to start riots. It'll keep happening if the 'Loyal Orders' continue to be dead set on marching past / through areas where they arent welcome.
ps, like how you posted this in 'United Kingdom' wink

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Choccy
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Jul 14 2009 23:08

yeah there's riots every year, no biggie
I mean, the Sept 2005 riots fucking closed EVERYTHING down

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PartyBucket
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Jul 14 2009 23:16

We've probably now reached an 'acceptable level' of sectarian rioting.

Fletcher
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Jul 16 2009 15:27
sickdog24 wrote:
How can this situation ever change? I mean the divide is still there, paint wont hide the cracks forever.

As far as sectarianism goes things haven't changed here. Thankfully there is less sectarian warfare than there used to be, however this doesn't mean that the place or indeed the politicans and people on both sides are less sectarian.

Sectarianism has been further institutionalised in the northern state by the creation of the Assembly (Sunningdale for slow learners). The entire set up of the power sharing executive is based on the premise that we have two distinct and opposing communities and that we can only live peacefully together by living apart.

The same sectarianism that feeds dissident republicanism and loyalism is no different from that which allows corrupt tribal politicans to make careers out of managing and maintaining division.

As long as this artificial divide continues there will always be those who from time to time express that division in violence.

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Choccy
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Jul 16 2009 15:51

Given that the 'two sides' are largely educated, housed and work separately, things are unlikely to change despite the lip service paid to the war being 'over'.
While tension is more low level than at the height of the troubles, it's still as entrenched.

Skips
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Jul 16 2009 20:54

interesting comments. I was wondering if there is much catholic-protestant marriages/relationships? and if these marriages/relationships are frowned upon? cheers

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Choccy
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Jul 16 2009 21:09

of course there are 'inter marriages',. a number of posters on here are 'half-bloods', just like that Harry Potter. Not me, 100% catholic atheist.

I do think that while the traditional tribal lines are ethno-national and not religious in doctrinal terms, the fact that churches here have basically lost the last generation may have a small impact on the stratification, but not significant enough to to be a 'solution to conflict' in NI.

An oft-cited fact is that we now have more peace-walls than we ever did during the Troubles, and interface violence is still common, so the fundamental divisions are clearly still visible, particularly in parts of north Belfast.

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Steven.
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Jul 16 2009 22:16

What sort of areas do people work together in?

Because I remember the Royal mail wildcat strikes across the sectarian boundary, as did the Visteon occupation.

What about the public sector? Wouldn't that at least have good mixing?

Connollyite
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Jul 16 2009 22:25
Liam_Derry wrote:
sickdog24 wrote:
How can this situation ever change? I mean the divide is still there, paint wont hide the cracks forever.

As far as sectarianism goes things haven't changed here. Thankfully there is less sectarian warfare than there used to be, however this doesn't mean that the place or indeed the politicans and people on both sides are less sectarian.

Sectarianism has been further institutionalised in the northern state by the creation of the Assembly (Sunningdale for slow learners). The entire set up of the power sharing executive is based on the premise that we have two distinct and opposing communities and that we can only live peacefully together by living apart.

The same sectarianism that feeds dissident republicanism and loyalism is no different from that which allows corrupt tribal politicans to make careers out of managing and maintaining division.

As long as this artificial divide continues there will always be those who from time to time express that division in violence.

How do you think sectarianism can be eradicated?

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Choccy
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Jul 16 2009 22:37
Steven. wrote:
What sort of areas do people work together in?

Because I remember the Royal mail wildcat strikes across the sectarian boundary, as did the Visteon occupation.

What about the public sector? Wouldn't that at least have good mixing?

Work, moreso than education of housing, does result in people meeting the 'other side' in many cases. And yeah, public sector is less stratified than a lot of the local businesses. but saying that, if public sector is to include primary and secondary schools, and local community groups that sort of thing, then very often these will be predominantly one or the other. In fact you can pretty much count on all the teachers in a catholic school being from a catholic background - and only 25 schools in the whole of NI are integrated.

In my experience , a lot of the fuckwits I went to school with hadn't met a protestant until they were 18 and had already formed many of their assumptions, and although in many cases they were willing to revise them, some I chat to you see those old little prejudices rear their head every now and again.