IWW in Northern Ireland

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Deezer
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Apr 20 2010 21:39

Felix of course they're not unrelated - I meant I didn't think the confusion as to whether one or more sections could exist in one country was deliberate. The amendment was obviously deliberate, and really my response is - and so what?

Apart from that the USI-Roma were never expelled. I was there, one of their delegates was speaking, got over excited about translation problems and led the USI-Roma in throwing their delegate cards at the platform and marching off. I think claims of expulsion came later - ie after they went home and were reminded they were not mandated to jack in the IWA. I say that because its after they walked out, complete with denunciations of the IWA, that they then started to claim to still be in the IWA.

The USI thing was dealt with in the only way it could have been given the behaviour of the delegates. I have already said on here what my reservations with the handling of the French situation was but this is old news and times have changed and organisations and people have moved on.

syndicalist
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Apr 20 2010 21:45
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Deezer---Felix of course they're not unrelated - I meant I didn't think the confusion as to whether one or more sections could exist in one country was deliberate. The amendment was obviously deliberate, and really my response is - and so what?

So what? I guess because it can be self-limiting. It was also used in a manner not very nice towards some of us in the US and I don't agree with things done for expediancy. There was a longstanding process that seemed to have worked. It was eliminated because folks were tired of the French situation.

Sorry comrades, I see I'm starting to digress and moving off point. I'll let it be.

Deezer
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Apr 21 2010 09:50

In fairness syndicalist I doubt whether clarity or lack of it around one section per country would have had much bearing on how badly the situation with the WSA was handled. But we've been over this in different threads. I don't see it as a bad think that there is one section per country nor do I see it as a bad thing that an attempt was made to clarify that amidst the mess that was the French CNT at the time. Problems may lie in supposed motivation, bad handling or in the fact that it has left the statutes somewhat ambiguous. The first two are in the past and the last one can be amended to tidy up any ambiguity.

syndicalist
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Apr 20 2010 22:27

Deezer, IWA comrades and friends..... I'll draw the WSA and IWA thing to a close. Apologies for using this space to do so. As always, my comments are personal and said in that capacity.

I agree, we have hashed out the poor handeling, etc, etc of the WSA situation many times. Those who enagegd in the poor handeling may never post here or read stuff here (I think some do). I take for face value that most of you were not around at the time. That most of you have no working knowledge of the WSA or our aware of our efforts on behalf of building a class struggle libertarian workers' movement and direct & active IWA participation since the 1970s. It's all history and one for the books. I get that and shall so move on beyond what we know and how we feel.

It is unlikely in any foreseable future the WSA will seek to argue our continued affiliation with the IWA, nor seek to reapply.

As WSA continues its period of rebirth and growth, we will continue to seek to develop ties with many across the wide berth of the class struggle movement. To our IWA comrades, the WSA can always be counted on for solidarity when you are engaged in an external fight. Even during the darkest days of the past, WSA has taken the word (and deed) of solidarity seriously.

A chapter is closed. New chapters are being written. On a personal level I am happy to still be a part of this and look forward to working with IWA comrades (and others). Although the relationship will is new and different, I believe we have alot more in common than not.

Apologies, once again, for using this space for this.

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JoeMaguire
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Apr 20 2010 23:01

Syndicalist, if you haven't already it needs a detailed written account separate from all the sparse details across numerous threads and then referring linking to as and when its relevant.

syndicalist
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Apr 21 2010 13:46
october_lost wrote:
Syndicalist, if you haven't already it needs a detailed written account separate from all the sparse details across numerous threads and then referring linking to as and when its relevant.

Here's a really quick and not so good piece on WSA's origin's:

The W.S.A.'s Origins: A short history of the Workers Solidarity Alliance
by Workers Solidarity Alliance 23 Sep 2005
http://www.anarchosyndicalism.net/newswire/display_any/217

gypsy
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Apr 21 2010 14:40
syndicalist wrote:
Deezer, IWA comrades and friends..... I'll draw the WSA and IWA thing to a close. Apologies for using this space to do so. As always, my comments are personal and said in that capacity.

I agree, we have hashed out the poor handeling, etc, etc of the WSA situation many times. Those who enagegd in the poor handeling may never post here or read stuff here (I think some do). I take for face value that most of you were not around at the time. That most of you have no working knowledge of the WSA or our aware of our efforts on behalf of building a class struggle libertarian workers' movement and direct & active IWA participation since the 1970s. It's all history and one for the books. I get that and shall so move on beyond what we know and how we feel.

It is unlikely in any foreseable future the WSA will seek to argue our continued affiliation with the IWA, nor seek to reapply.

As WSA continues its period of rebirth and growth, we will continue to seek to develop ties with many across the wide berth of the class struggle movement. To our IWA comrades, the WSA can always be counted on for solidarity when you are engaged in an external fight. Even during the darkest days of the past, WSA has taken the word (and deed) of solidarity seriously.

A chapter is closed. New chapters are being written. On a personal level I am happy to still be a part of this and look forward to working with IWA comrades (and others). Although the relationship will is new and different, I believe we have alot more in common than not.

Apologies, once again, for using this space for this.

Why won't you re apply? Can the problems between the IWA and the WSA not be resolved? It seems a shame.

syndicalist
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Apr 21 2010 15:48
allybaba wrote:
Why won't you re apply? Can the problems between the IWA and the WSA not be resolved? It seems a shame.

I was just ready to turn the computer off...

Comrade allybaba, I just don't think this will happen now. Perhaps when things broke, perhaps that conversation might have happened....or at least a conversation of some sort might have happened, not today.

I'll be happy to discuss this elsewhere, but, suffice it to say, there's still some strong ill feelings and no real steam to focus on this now. WSA is going through a period of growth and while solidarity is a thing we believe in, we feel our main focus is building the WSA. International solidarity will be given as needed. To battle with folks over an affiliation that most have no interest in makes no sense.

Inter-organizational relationships, common work and so forth, we're cool with that.

Caiman del Barrio
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Apr 21 2010 16:04
october_lost wrote:
Syndicalist, if you haven't already it needs a detailed written account separate from all the sparse details across numerous threads and then referring linking to as and when its relevant.

Whole-heartedly agree. Independently of the WSA's grievances, threads need to stay ontopic.

syndicalist
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Apr 21 2010 22:36
Caiman del Barrio wrote:
october_lost wrote:
Syndicalist, if you haven't already it needs a detailed written account separate from all the sparse details across numerous threads and then referring linking to as and when its relevant.

Whole-heartedly agree. Independently of the WSA's grievances, threads need to stay ontopic.

Here's where the WSA, IWA conversation has occured:
http://libcom.org/forums/workers-solidarity-alliance/workers-solidarity-alliance-and-iwa

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cantdocartwheels
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May 2 2010 12:26

jesus, this thread should have been split ages ago

Deezer
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May 3 2010 10:52

Yep - and as to whether Organise! is anarcho-syndicalist. I'll let yez know this evening.

Deezer
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May 3 2010 17:25

Here you go, Organise! are an anarcho-syndicalist organisation

Joey OD
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May 9 2010 20:25

IMO the very word "country" like the word "nation" is meaningless bullshit. The word "region" would be better. When we mean a state we should just say "state".
There should be no hard and fast rules when it comes to IWA affiliates and where they come from as this can be complicated. Whether it should just include functioning unions or propaganda groups is no doubt another thread.
Two states exist on the island of Ireland but for various reasons it makes sense to have one organisation (geography, history and legal similarity).
The present reality is that Organise! is reduced to one part of the island as is the WSM though they would both like to be all island organisations. Organise! is not affiliated to the IWA currently.
I have many times been surprised on hearing of IWW members in various parts of Ireland. Therefore I am sure that there are individual members of the IWW in Ireland but no organised shops. They had members in Cork, Derry and Belfast at one point but many of these joined Organise! or the WSM.
A member of the Socialist Party claimed he knew some from Fermanagh and Tyrone. Me and Deezer were in the back of a car at the time with two SP up front. I think we were going to a Fascists Out Campaign action in Portrush at the time. Also my brother was a wobly or at least threatened to join. Perhaps he did and still is. Point is they come out of the woodwork all over the place but have no organised presence. You can ask the British Isles Organising Committee of the IWW if you are really interested, just look'm up.

Joey OD
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May 30 2010 20:24
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There was one guy in particular, I met at an IWA event, a rubber worker who great(who has since found religion and out of the moveent).

I could be wrong here but I think that was JJL who was not in Organise! but rather the marvelously named 'North of Ireland Anarchist Network' which consisted of him and Deezer. When I was lookin for other anarcho's in Ireland I found a letter from him on abortion in the Irish News calling for tolerance. Isn't memory lane fantastic? Unless there was another guy who found religion, Jesus Christ! is that likely? Anyhoo, my brother is still in the IWW as is Pumpsie Green who posts here as his missus.

Deezer
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May 31 2010 00:24

Pumpsie Green posts here as his missus??? No its not JJL, who as far as I know did not find religion - you are confused.

Joey OD
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Jun 6 2010 22:26

Deezer wrote

Quote:
Pumpsie Green posts here as his missus???

I meant "as is his missus" (in the IWW, at least she was).

Quote:
No its not JJL, who as far as I know did not find religion - you are confused.

OK, so my memory's a bit fuzzy, couldve swore u told me that 10 yrs ago so maybe it was u who were confused, or perhaps u were on about someone else... But u definately told me someone did (find religion) and now syndicalist has repeated it (a rubber worker) so I didnt imagine it, so enlighten us...(not that it matters)

Deezer
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Jun 13 2010 21:29

No, it was someone from Organise! that syndicalist is talking about, you didn't image it it just wasn't JJL who was never in Organise!