Death in June: a Nazi band? - Midwest Unrest

Death in June: a Nazi band? - Midwest Unrest

Article by the Midwest Unrest group about band Death in June, who use fascist symbolism, and their relation to Nazism, racism and the far right.

Death in June (DIJ) is not a typical white power nazi band - they do not shave their heads, sing about lynching Blacks or rant about Jewish conspiracies. Nonetheless, DIJ's unabashed support for fascist ideology and aesthetics is just as strong. Their use of fascist symbolism goes far beyond shock tactics, and ultimately the artistic and philosophical message they put forward serves to create an interest and acceptance that fascist cultural activists can exploit. This is particularly dangerous at a time when the white power music business generates millions in sales each year and fascists increasingly seek to gain a foothold in new subcultures, particularly the goth, neofolk, experimental and industrial scenes. Douglas Pearce, the singer/songwriter and central person in DIJ, has always been careful to conceal his true political beliefs and avoid controversy, but a close examination of DIJ's interests and activities reveals where his loyalties lie.

The name "Death in June" refers to June 30, 1934, the "Night of Long Knives", when Hitler had Ernst Roehm and other leaders of the SA (nazi stormtroopers) murdered. Roehm and his faction were highly critical of Hitler policies (make no mistake-they were still fascists) and are associated with a branch of fascist ideology National Bolshevism, spearheaded by Gregor Strasser. The National Bolsheviks argued for a more socialist version of fascism and criticized Hitler\rquote s reliance on industrial capitalists. (Today, this branch of fascism is called the Third Position.

DIJ repeatedly use fascist and nazi symbols on their albums and on stage, including the Death Head (worn as a pin by nazi SS soldiers), the Life Rune (a pagan symbol commonly used by fascists) and the Black Sun (another rune used by the SS). Likewise, members of DIJ have often worn nazi Waffen-SS uniforms on stage.

On their "Brown Book" LP, DIJ published the Horst Wessel song, the marching anthem of the SA and later the official song of the nazi party. Their song "Circo Massimo" from their "Take Care and Control" album loops a chorus from a fascist marching song. The title of their "Operation Hummingbird" album comes from a nazi military operation aimed at creating anti-gravity aircraft.

In 1992, during Yugoslavia's bloody civil war, Douglas Pearce visited the frontline and the HOS Miliz (Croatian fascists). Pearce made several live recordings in Croatia and then released them as a two-CD set called "Something Is Coming: Live and Studio Recordings From Croatia" that carried the red-white national flag of Croatia. Proceeds from the CD went to a Croatian (fascist) military hospital.

Also in 1992, DIJ backed out and refused to play the Dark X-Mas festival in Hamburg after the organizers issued a statement condemning a spate of fascist attacks on immigrant asylums in Germany. Likewise, DIJ also refused to play a 1994 Festival of Darkness because the show was promoted as being against racism and neo-nazism.

DIJ songs were published on a 1996 tribute to Leni Riefenstahl, a well-known Third Reich director/cinematographer. The CD was published by VAWS (Verlag und Agentur), a right-wing record-label run by Werner Symanek, who is part of the right wing in Germany and active in cultural work. VAWS has released similar tributes to nazi artists such as Arno Breker and Josef Thorak.

DIJ/Pearce have often collaborated and played with proto-fascist industrial artist Boyd Rice/NON. Pearce and Rice have also associated with fascist/Satanist Michael Moynihan of the band Blood Axis. (See more on Rice and Moynihan below.) Patrick "Kill", a former member of DIJ (now with Mother Destruction), disassociated himself from Pearce due to racism and intolerance within

DIJ shows have been cancelled and shut down or suffered protest numerous times on the grounds that DIJ supports fascism-in Chicago, Portland, Seattle, Germany, Switzerland and Norway, among others. In Chicago last year, the Metro cancelled a scheduled Death in June show, though it was rescheduled elsewhere (according to a promoter from American Gothic Productions, fascists did indeed attend the show).

DIJ have a fan base among modern fascist activists, many of whom actively encourage other fascists to attend DIJ shows.

For examples, click here and here.

Douglas Pearce Quotes
"The most influential man of this century has been Adolf Hitler! He's shaped the world we live in today with his hate and destruction."
"At the start of the eighties, Tony and I [Tony Wakefield was one of the original members of DIJ] were involved in radical left politics and beneath it history students. In search of a political view for the future we came across National Bolshevism which is closely connected with the SA hierarchy. People like Gregor Strasser and Ernst,who were later known as 'second revolutionaries' attracted our attention."
Misery and Purity: A History and Personal Interpretation of Death In June by Robert Forbes (Jara Press, Amersham 1995), p. 15.

Regarding the Night of the Long Knives: "Our interest doesn't come from killing all opposition, as it's been interpreted, but from identification with or understanding of the leftist elements of the SA which were purged, or murdered by the SS. That day is extremely important in human history... They were planning execution or overthrow of Hitler, so he wouldn't be around. We'd be living in a completely different world, I should imagine... It's fascinating that a few people held the destiny of the world and mankind in their hands for those few hours and let it slip, and it could've gone either way."
(source: interview with Sounds magazine, 1985)

"I prefer to suck, white, uncircumsised cocks of a certain age so I suppose that rules out quite a few races and religions in one huge act of sexualdiscrimination. However, that's natural selection for you. It follows on that, of course race is important to me!"
(source: interview with Dagobert's Revenge

The Argument
Some would argue that DIJ does not support fascism/nazi-ism, but that they just use fascist imagery and symbolism either for shock value or because they simply find them aesthetically pleasing.

This argument can be taken several ways. On one hand, we are to believe that because it is artistic, that there is no political content to it. Though we question this notion (in our view, everything is political), even if we didn't we would question the wisdom of spreading an aesthetic that is the basis for a fundamentally anti-human, anti-freedom philosophy without offering any sort of critique whatsoever. An exploration of fascist imagery could be interesting if it were juxtaposed with an exploration of the inherent dangers of fascism, but DIJ does nothing of the sort. In fact, their handling of nazi symbolism can be more accurately pinpointed as a celebration of fascist ideals. Nazi uniforms may look sharp, but ultimately the people that wear them leave something to be desired. Considering the growth of fascist movements in both Europe and North America over the past decade, and the attempts these fascists are making to spread their ideology, we can only view the promotion of fascist aesthetics as na\'efve at best, dangerous at worst.

On the other hand, we are to believe that DIJ's use of nazi symbolism is just a tired, old marketing gimmick, a form of fascist pornography that uses controversy to garner attention and sales. According to this view, DIJ's pro-fascist stance is just a meaningless marketing ploy. Even Douglas Pearce has said, "Obviously people have fallen into the trap of taking it on a surface value. That is their problem." Unfortunately for Pearce, it is a problem for him as well since the use of such symbolism has and does attract the attention of actual fascists (see above). By creating an atmosphere where fascist aesthetics and philosophy are supported, Pearce and DIJ are drawing fascists in - and they do nothing to discourage this, despite being called on it for over a decade. At best this is irresponsible, at worst reprehensible.

Ultimately, we believe that all of these arguments in defense of DIJ are bogus, as we feel there is enough evidence regarding DIJ\rquote s political stances, projects and activities to show that they are doing more than just flirting with fascist imagery.

Some would argue that by trying to shut down DIJ shows, that we are being "fascist" and that we are engaging in censorship. This is not a question of free speech. Bookers, promoters and club owners decide everyday what bands they want to play in music establishments. This is no more censorship than choosing a rock group over a country act. Do you support fascism? If not, then why would you support Death in June?

Douglas Pearce is gay, so how can he be a nazi/fascist?
There is a documented history of homosexual participation and support within fascist movements, despite the fact that most fascists count homosexuals as enemies. There is also the distinct possibility that Pearce is so interested in Ernst Roehm because Roehm was homosexual, just like Pearce is.

Wasn't Pearce's visit to Croatia and the benefits he did for humanitarian reasons?
In an interview with Descent magazine (issue 3), Pearce stated that it wasn't a "purely a humanitarian gesture. It was a cultural one. A socio-Euro political one." The people he visited were fascists.

Boyd Rice
Like Pearce and DIJ, Boyd Rice has consistently embraced fascism throughout his career as an experimental noise artist. In addition to wearing fascist uniforms and imagery and giving nazi salutes on stage, there is wide range of evidence indicating that Rice is a nazi at heart.

Rice set up an explicitly fascist show on August 8th, 1988 in San Francisco called 8-8-88. "88" is a code phrase commonly used in fascist circles for "Heil Hitler" (H is the 8th letter of the

Rice is also infamous for a photograph in which he is wearing the uniform of the neo-nazi American Front and sitting next to his friend Bob Heick, the leader of the American Front at that time.

In 1986, Rice was a friendly guest on the television show hosted by Tom Metzger of WAR (White Aryan Resistance). When Metzger asked Rice: "So whereas modern music propaganda is an instrument of Jewish interest and Black and so forth, you see emerging a new propaganda form for white Aryans?" Rice replied:"Yeah, yeah."

Rice founded a group called the Abraxas Foundation along with Holocaust-denier Keith Stimley. The Abraxas Foundation published a newsletter called WAKE, which told its readers that "nature adheres to an Immutable Order" in short, humanity is democratic, nature is fascist.

Rice has been known to sell at his shows and read as part of his performance from a racist, anti-Semitic book called "Might is Right", by Ragnar Redbeard. "Might is Right" includes an afterword from George Eric Hawthorne, the former singer of the neo-nazi band RAHOWA (RAcial HOly WAr) and founder of the white power music label Resistance Records. The book was edited by Katja Lane, wife of the imprisoned David Lane, a neo-nazi member of the Order that committed several armored car heists and murdered Jewish talk-show host Alan Berg in the 1980s. Proceeds from the book go to support David Lane and similar white supremacist political prisoners.

Though Rice claims not to be racist or neo-nazi, he does not deny that he is a fascist and social Darwinist. According to an interview by Misanthrope, he said: "I feel that I'm a fascist, but Nazi is a real specific term. I'm a fascist in the sense of the modern bastardised meaning of the word. I'm completely against democratic values and liberalism. (read the interview)

As if that\rquote s not repugnant enough, Rice also does not conceal his hatred of women. As revealed in Misanthrope:
Back to the rumours. Are you a misogynist?
"Yeah." Nods fervently for the record. [Laughs.] "Yeah, more and more all the time."
What makes you feel that way?
"Just a lot of experience with women. I don't think women deserve the same rights as men. I don't think women are on an equal footing with men. I think they're totally different creatures. I think the world operated better when they had less say over how the way things went, had less control."
And regarding his piece "R.A.P.E.", which is appallingly pro-rape but allegedly tongue-in-cheek: "I was poking a bit of fun, but it's like there's more than a grain of truth in everything I said in there. I think all the stuff I said was basically true. Which is why it's funny when it's funny. And it's why it upsets women, when it upsets women. Because, you know, they can't really deny most of that stuff. "
"Well that's why when women start having these intellectual arguments with me I say at a certain point, "Listen, I refuse to even argue with a woman." They say, "Well, why is that?" and I say, "Because you overreact, you get all emotional, and fly into a tizzy."

Even Boyd Rice's former lovers do not deny his racist and fascist tendencies. According to an interview with Rice's former girlfriend Lisa Suckdog: "His audience is all Nazis and Satanists and they have their own hall and they do their Nazi racist stuff.

Michael Moynihan
A former friend of Boyd Rice, Moynihan is a prolific writer, musician and straightforward Satanist. Just like his associates, Moynihan clearly comes across as fascist when you see the evidence:

Moynihan wrote the book Lords of Chaos, detailing the church burnings in Scandinavia attributed to the black metal scene. These incidents led to the flourishing of NSBM: National Socialist Black Metal.

Moynihan runs a music label called Storm that distributes music by neo-nazi Varg Vikernes (of the band Burzum) as well as other NSBM music projects.

In an interview with Compulsion magazine (#3, circa 1988), Moynihan said: "I have no problem being called a fascist. If fascism will restore some sense of order, discipline and responsibility to the world, then I am all for it."

Moynihan published the book "Siege" by neo-nazi James Mason. Once a member of the American Nazi Party, Mason now belongs to the Universal Order, a group that sees Charles Manson as the next Hitler. Mason is currently serving time in Colorado for menacing with a deadly weapon.

Sources
Christian Dornsbuch, contributor to RechtsRock, Bestandsaufnahmeund Gegenstrategien and Asthetische Mobilmachung (German books concerning fascist influences in music scenes).

Soundtracks to the White Revolution: White Supremacist Assaults on Youth Music Culture, by the Center of New Community

Misc. Online Research

More info on Death In June, Der Blutharsch and Changes
Changes - R.N. Taylor Changes is the re-union of a 1970's Chicago "apocalyptic folk" band headed up by self described "white separatist" R.N. Taylor. With his long hair, acoustic guitar, and folk tunes, Taylor is the Bob Dylan of bigotry.

Active for decades in white supremacy, Taylor is no stranger to racist violence. In a 1998 interview with the British publication Tribal Resonance, Taylor discusses taking part in attacks against the homes of African-American families, as well as hanging African-Americans in effigy from lampposts in Chicago during the late 1960s.

Taylor went on to join the violent right wing paramilitary group the Minutemen, an organization active in the 1960s and early 1970s that was rife with white supremacists and Klansmen at its leadership.

In the same Tribal Resonance interview, Taylor describes his goal for racial separation in the United States. The verbal map that Taylor draws for his reader parallels an actual plan for racial separation drawn by white supremacist David Duke. According to Taylor, white separatists would get the Pacific Northwest as a homeland, and African Americans would be moved to America's southlands.

In Duke's original version of this concept, which was drawn for the National Association for the Advancement of White People, whites retained overall control of the country while Latino, Jews and Native Americans are moved to various relocation areas. Taylor began sincerely putting his politics into music in the 1970s.

Der Blutharsch (a synonym for "dried blood") is an Austrian white power music act headed by Albin Julius, formed in 1997, with the assistance of Death in June leader Douglass Pearce.

The band takes great pride in their use of fascist symbols, and is well known for its use of Nazi imagery. Der Blutharsch attracts neo-Nazi's and right wing extremists across Europe.

In March 2003, a concert in Clausnitz, Germany was cancelled by the German government. In a statement released by the security police concluded that Der Blutharsch has "right wing extremist tendencies." (The statement has significant weight in Germany, given the legal impermissibility of such extremism.)

Those tendencies are evident in the packaging and music of the band. The Der Blutharsch logo is a symbol with a Sig-rune, like the Waffen-SS used. Their website also relies on the Nazi Iron Cross and the logo of the Hitler Youth.

The covers of their albums are also adorned with Nazi art. The cover of the CD "Der Sieg des Lichtes ist des Lebens Heil!" (The triumph of light is the life's Heil) is a part of a picture about the Varus battle, painted by the Nazi painter Werner Peiner.

The cover of the CD "The pleasures received in Pain" is a reprint of the painting "Defense eastern Einfdle" by Nazi artist Ferdinand Staeger. Their songs also sample lyrics from the Hitler Youth marching anthem "Forward!" and other speeches and marches.

The EP "Adesso viene IL bell" even contains eight songs from Italian fascism. On a live-video, published in 1999, named "Gold gab ich fcr Eisen" (I gave gold for iron) of the second tour, a "Finnish version of Lili Marleen," a popular song in Germany during World War II, was played (called "Lisa Pien").

The song was dedicated to the Freiwillige der Waffen SS and Marsch des Sturmatillerie, European volunteers of the Waffen SS march of the storm artillery. The second tour was together with Death in June. At the end of the video, the second singer Wilhelm Herich shouted "Free Pinochet".

Posted By

Steven.
Nov 19 2006 13:06

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Entdinglichung
Jun 28 2012 09:16

one small mistake in the original posting, dried blood is a linguistically correct translation for Der Blutharsch but the name of the band refers to a specific category of early modern Swiss mercenaries who volunteered to fight in the most dangerous places of the battlefield (with the resulting high fatality rate) ... there is plenty of stuff on the right wing of the Gothic subculture and music scene on the webpage: http://www.geister-bremen.de/index.php (sorry, in German)

Arbeiten
Jun 28 2012 13:42

This thread, along with the Hakim Bey one, is my fav. on libcom....

SKull
Nov 14 2012 10:38

After reading all these fascinating comments it strikes me how weird it is that people insist on engaging in endless discussions without providing legitimate, or even any, definitions of the terms being hurled about. Most disagreements result from differing definitions which might make definitions fun in political debates.
I`ve therefore compiled a list of helpful definitions to make myself useful:

1: Totalitarianism: A state agenda or demand for detailed control over every citizen from birth to death. Runs from relatively benign to literally deciding who lives and dies and in what numbers. All modern states are totalitarian to some extent since it is not generally possible for it`s citizens to get away from most forms of state intrusion.
The more traditional totalitarian ideologies of Nazism, fascism and Communism are also explicitly terrorist, meaning that instilling fear in the populations to be controlled by any means necessary is a desirable goal, since this will make them even more easily controllable. In general therefore, the more fear based a state`s propaganda is the more totalitarian it is likely to be, given that terrorism is elevated in this way to a central doctrine of most, if not all, political ideologies.

2: Ideology: System of political, religious or cultural statements aiming to fundamentally reshape, improve or destroy a society, religion or culture in some form. Ideologies are almost always exclusive or even esoteric in nature as well as deliberately irrational, since central tenets of any ideology must usually be taken on faith. I would therefore classify all modern ideologies as secular religions since they function in almost exactly the same way, but with a pseudo scientific veneer rather than a theological one.

3: Fascism: Political ideology of corporatism based on totalitarianism and sometimes national mythology. Characterized by financial, economic, cultural and political centralization.
Fascism therefore has nothing to do with racism, but rather with class warfare by a financial/capitalist/industrialist oligarchy. It can also provide a mobilizing mythology for a state which is planning aggression by pointing to some monstrous threat, whether externally or internally. Such myths of besiegement is possibly the most consistent populist aspect of fascism, although the particular form it takes varies.

4: Racism: Acts or systematic attempts to use racial divisions and perceived racial differences and grievances for political gain. Attempting to divide a population along such lines or to treat them differently, like all western governments are doing, is therefore racism.
Calling someone a derogatory racial slur is on the other hand not racism unless it results in some perceivable political gain, for example by legitimizing a totalitarian government`s crackdowns on free speech to combat "racism" (it`s not racism, as I`ve demonstrated).
On the contrary the word `racism` implies systematic acts of policy. For example, it would not be racist to deny someone access to my pub because they were black, but an isolated act of racial prejudice. It would be racist to deny all black people access to my pub because they were black. Reversely it would be neither racism or an act of racial prejudice to deny a black person access to my pub because he had forgot to put on pants before leaving his home.
Because this seems to all get muddled together in what remains of public debate in the west I think it`s worth detailing the semantics of this particular issue
In short: individuals or groups thereof can be bigoted or racially prejudiced, but this is not racism. Nor is it or should it be a criminal offense. One cannot legislate away stupidity and hypocrisy and any attempts to do so will lead to even more totalitarian oppression than we already are encumbered with, as well as leading to an inevitable backlash as protest minded individuals are attracted to the prohibited expressions.
On the other hand, governments can be and usually are racist, since whatever their intentions may be all efforts to " stop racism" by government necessarily leads to more racial separation as a result of the government now treating people differently based solely on their ethnicity. This is the definition of bigotry and can lead nowhere meaningful.
Other institutions can also be racist if they employ policies that treat people differently depending on their race. This type of racism will be more localized and less egregious than the systematic racism of the state though.

5: Racial prejudice: Any perception that one`s own ethnic group is superior to some or all other ethnic groups. Most ethnic groups have some aspect of racial prejudice either in this direction or in a sense of the perceived inferiority of one`s own ethnic group. It is very politically incorrect for white people to have racial prejudices but not quite as bad for others. Although offensive and intellectually degrading racial prejudice is irrelevant. Any crimes committed as a result of such is already covered by the various criminal statutes which leaves the feeble and utterly insulting notion that people must be punished in some way if they offend each other. In fact, this assault on individual freedom of expression offends me so much I loudly demand strict and draconian punishment for anybody who promotes it! Unless a crime is being committed or you are the victim of state or institutionalized racism, walk away!

6: Nazism: Short for National Socialism. Economically and martially similar to the classic Italian fascism and beset by the same siege mentality, but different in most other ways, including racism, race theory, eugenics, blood mysticism and the generation of a synthetic popular culture and associated mythologies. Very different from American corporate fascism though and can probably not be confidently classified as a fascist ideology in the economic sense.

7: National Bolshevism: A branch of National Socialism developed by Otto Strasser, Gregor Strasser and Ernst Rohm. In some ways a reaction to the Fuhrer principle, it drew heavily on Leninism for it`s ideas and demanded a forceful conclusion to the social revolution Hitler had promised, rather than the increasing plutocracy of the Third Reich. Not as explicitly racist as the main variant of the German fascism, but this might be due to the relative disinterest of it`s proponents to issues of race.

8: Socialism: Ideology of collectivism which is a defining part of the more extreme totalitarian ideologies, including fascism, national socialism and communism. Through the efforts of the totalitarian state the aim is to redistribute wealth from the rich (middle class) to the poor. If mismanaged socialism leads over time to a reduced standard of living for everyone but a small elite at the top, as well as increased social divisions as the state proceeds to categorize all the citizens of a society after various criteria such as age, gender, ethnicity and productivity.
If well managed it can provide security for exposed groups of a population but in return these will become dependent on the state.

9: Communism: Same as socialism but more aggressive and ruthless. Also includes doctrines of terrorism in order to advance the political agenda of centralization which is at the core of the ideology.

10: Semitic: Group of languages, of which the most dominant is Arabic.

11: Anti Semitism: Nonsensical word first used in the 1860s to describe the German imperialists trying to establish an ideology of racial superiority similar to the British equivalent of the White Man`s Burden, by loudly insisting that Aryans were superior to "Semites". The phrase was given it`s current fallacious usage by Heinrich von Treitschke, a notable imperialist ideologue in the German Reich and a loud advocate for the immoral state; unbound in it`s quest for greatness by either moral constraints or custom.
When used by anti definitionists like the wonderful folks on this site the word means to be against Jews. Which should properly be called:

12: Anti Judaism. An older version is Jew hate, but since you can be opposed to something without hating it I think this is a bit rich. And since Judaism is not a race but a religion the entire thing here descends into the absurdities from which it came.

13: Jew hate. The act or principle of hating Jews.

It is of course perfectly fine to disagree with my definitions and propose alternatives instead, but having now presented my operative definitions you will of course immediately know why I can say the following:
Death in June is not a racist group since it derives no political gain from exploiting racial divisions even if it were doing this, for which I`ve seen no evidence. It might be fascist, but if it is it`s not fascist in the economic or political sense of this ideology, although perhaps in the cultural populist sense by using symbols associated with previous incarnations of fascism. Since it`s not racist it also cannot be Nazi since racism was an integral part of Nazism, which adequately answers the question in the article`s title based on my definitions.
In many ways it would be more meaningful to ask if DiJ is a totalitarian band. But since they`re not in a position of government this is probably nonsense too. Only government can be totalitarian.

PS When it comes to symbols, images and other cultural elements associated with Nazism, racism or fascism they usually aren`t, or weren`t before they were misused.
The biggest reason for this is of course that all political ideologies use symbols in their propaganda which then taints this symbol afterwards. Many Celtic and Nordic crosses had for example been in use for centuries before proto Nazis began appropriating them; The rose had been a symbol of love, wisdom and secrets until it was abused by various socialist movements and the star, hammer and sickle respectively has symbolized man, God and order, among other things, before being seized by Communism. Depending on who you talk to all these symbols can be offensive due to the connotations they inspire and the ideologies we falsely believe them to represent.
This offense is usually highly contextual though, as is the case with the "Totenkopf" someone linked to. It of course isn`t the Totenkopf at all, but the warning displayed on poisonous materials or the rooms in which said were being used in Germany during the war. Therefore it was visible on the cannisters of Zyklon B used in the concentration camps and in the rooms used for disinfecting. Almost identical warning signs can be found on disinfectants today. The gas chambers reported in some of the Polish camps did not have this warning on the door, for obvious reasons. Due to the highly selective symbol sensitivity of many people such images are perfectly OK in a history book or on Discovery Channel but not on the sleeve of a record or tattooed on an arm. This sensitivity seems much more potent regarding Nazi symbolism than Communist symbolism, which causes it to more or less completely disappear among people on the left, even though Communism in total has killed at least 20 times as many people as Nazi Germany ever did .
But the main thing is that symbols are nothing more than cultural artifacts and using them doesn`t really say anything, although symbol illiterates easily believe that it does. Unless the use of symbols is accompanied by explanatory political statements we have no way of knowing what the intention of the symbology was and should probably avoid speculation.

B_Reasonable
Nov 14 2012 14:39

@SKull

You must be wilfully blind not to see that Death in June's use of fascist references are either a marketing ploy to convincingly appear as a fascist band or that they simply a fascist band, The net effect being the same -- the promotion of fascist ideology. Your attempt to defend them based on the fact that they make little reference to fascist political positions would have been untenable if you had included 'apoliteic' amongst your "helpful definitions". Please see here for more on why Death in June is a Nazi band: Neo-folk is fascist folk

Arbeiten
Nov 14 2012 17:28
SKull wrote:
But the main thing is that symbols are nothing more than cultural artifacts and using them doesn`t really say anything, although symbol illiterates easily believe that it does. Unless the use of symbols is accompanied by explanatory political statements we have no way of knowing what the intention of the symbology was and should probably avoid speculation.

If you believe symbols on their own have no meaning without accompanying text, I think it is fair to say it is actually you who are suffering from a case of symbol illiteracy. (let's ignore for the second that it is exactly in imbuing things with meaning that they become understood exactly as 'cultural' artefacts as apposed to merely inexplicable things).

Your trying to muddy the water between other images of skull and crossbones and totenkopf is also a cheap slight of hand which isn't going to fool anyone.

Within your past paragraph there is also huge logical inconsistency where on the one hand you seem to suggest that the skull and cross bones symbolizes something that one can read without text (this is a poison, this is dangerous, whatever) while on the other hand you have said that it is impossible to understand symbols (and in fact we should avoid trying to understand symbols!) if they are not accompanied by a text.

knot
Sep 2 2013 20:35

Can't tell whether their Facebook should be regarded as being insightful political-wise, but this is a picture from it: https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/793858_1015149652...

LOL

evo76
Feb 9 2014 22:10

If this, in social realm, acts like nazi stuff than this is a nazi stuff. I don't give a heck what kind of ideas artists are forcing into their products. If this atract bunch on neo-nazi boneheads giving them an aesthetical platform of social unification, than this is more than enough for me.

Fozzie
Nov 14 2018 13:11

National Action is a UK based neo-nazi group which was proscribed by the government after it celebrated the killing of MP Jo Cox by a far right sympathiser.

A lot of fuss in the press has been made about Claudia Patatas and her partner Adam Thomas, the National Action members whose baby had the middle name of Adolf.

Patatas and Thomas were convicted of belonging to a proscribed group last Monday and await sentencing.

What has now emerged is that Patatas had links with Death In June and a number of other neofolk groups:

https://harsherreality.tumblr.com/

That site includes pictures of Patatas posing with Douglas P and states that her previous partner was Death In June's tour driver.

Patatas also apparently took the cover photos of a few Death In June releases.

This raises a number of awkward questions for the dwindling number of Death In June fans who still insist that the group is not political, and is just fascist cosplay for people who want to wank off about the "darker side of humanity".

Fozzie
Nov 14 2018 10:36

Actually - is it worth me doing this as a short News piece?

R Totale
Nov 14 2018 10:46

I'd say yes.

freemind
Nov 14 2018 16:58

Among the pictures of the National Action scum are pictures of them holding up National Anarchism propaganda.Retarded cunts!We constantly have to dismiss misconceptions about Anarchism without these class traitors spouting there twisted shit.Death in June are Nazi and a mate told me this in 86 when he told me of Skrewdriver.Crisis were quality but it just shows how some people are very malleable re;politics and how Anarchists need to be stringent and disciplined organisation wise as do AntiFascists or we leave ourselves vulnerable.

R Totale
Nov 19 2018 19:37

The Quietus have picked up on the Patatas angle: http://thequietus.com/articles/25682-fascism-underground-music-racism-in...

Fozzie
Nov 20 2018 11:35

Good to see - be interesting to see how the series of articles there develops too.

Datacide piece also:

https://datacide-magazine.com/national-action-neo-nazi-terror-group-conn...

Mike Harman
Jan 30 2019 19:09
Midwest Unrest wrote:
The name "Death in June" refers to June 30, 1934, the "Night of Long Knives", when Hitler had Ernst Roehm and other leaders of the SA (nazi stormtroopers) murdered. Roehm and his faction were highly critical of Hitler policies (make no mistake-they were still fascists) and are associated with a branch of fascist ideology National Bolshevism, spearheaded by Gregor Strasser. The National Bolsheviks argued for a more socialist version of fascism and criticized Hitler\rquote s reliance on industrial capitalists. (Today, this branch of fascism is called the Third Position.

This should be corrected really. National Bolshevism was from people like Karl Radek in the early '20s - mostly an attempt 'from the left' to mobilise nationalist Germans against French and English imperialism to protect Russian interests.

Strasserism emerged around the same time but had different routes.

Modern third positionists draw from both - especially when you get to people like Dugin or 'National Anarchism'.