Anarchists join fight against IS to defend Kurdish autonomous areas

Anarchists join fight against IS to defend Kurdish autonomous areas

Taken from a report by the French Anarchist weekly paper Alternative Revolutionaire this short article gives a taste of developements on the ground in the fight against Islamic State.

On Friday 26th September Alternative Libetaire reported that "Istanbul anarchists along other leftists and feminists, have managed to cross over into Syria and the northern town of Kobane which is currently threatened by ISIS.”

“For several days at the Syrian-Turkish border, the city of Kobanê is besieged by forces of the Islamic State (Daesh). Kobanê is a strategic turning point. If the city falls, the whole of Syrian Kurdistan is threatened, and with it a political and social model, that of "democratic autonomy" and "democratic confederalism" built since July 2012.

More than 100,000 inhabitants and residents have become refugees on Turkish territory.
The city is defended by the People’s Protection Units (YPG), militias linked to the PKK, and in which alongside the majority of Kurdish fighters, are also Arabs, Turks, Muslims, Yazidis, Christians or atheists, united against the fanatics of Daesh/ISIS.

Thousands of young people, socialists, trade unionists, revolutionaries, feminists, libertarians have poured in from all over Turkey to Kobanê. They go there to support the refugees and defend the city.
The Turkish army tries to disperse them, yet is accused of being much more permissive with the jihadists who are also trying to cross the border to join Daesh/ISIS

Despite the blockades of the Turkish army, hundreds of activists and militants have managed to cross the border. Among them, the comrades of the Revolutionary Anarchist Action Group, who made the trip to Istanbul to join the defence of Kobanê.

Posted By

Glimmer
Oct 3 2014 21:42

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Marx-Trek
Oct 11 2014 20:25

And a point that seems to have been completely lost here. Local anarchists and regional anarchists in the area have joined in the fight against ISIS in solidarity with Kurdish resistance, it seems completely counter intuitive to not give them the benefit of the doubt to see their actions as worthwhile and an interesting development in the region. Since as far as I can remember, politically speaking, from about 1991, this is the first time I have witnessed anarchists along with other leftists mounting a resistance and beginning to create and build something different. Again, I am very confused as to why local Kurdish and Turkish anarchists actions, view points, and political decisions are just being so quickly dismissed. I mean this entire thread/post was started because anarchists in the region are beginning to fight for something and in solidarity and its just being glossed over and dismissed. Why? Of course we should not abandon our own perspectives and just defer to players on the ground, but jesus, some benefit needs to be given. Right?

If we continue on with this type of logic and analytical conclusions then no cause or fight is worthy of support other than our own...

Marx-Trek
Oct 11 2014 20:35

Also, I want to thank everyone for having this discussion despite our frustrations and friction because it has motivated me to further explore the developments in the Cantons and the Kurdish resistance.

kurremkarmerruk, thank you for posting links to awesome sources of info. That Dirik talk was pretty awesome.

kurekmurek
Oct 11 2014 20:40

Marx-Trek:

Thanks, I really appreciated your discussions.

All:

By the way I am sorry if I get lost in the head of debate. My initial wish was actually to (at least to my mind) correct some mistakes in representation of Kobane and Turkish anarchists. I also thought I think everyone could very much enjoy some translations of small updates I will made etc.. I actually recommended some of my friends to read this threat to catch up with latest developments etc. The resulting discussion was however I guess a little bit off putting in length and tone (including my contributions of course)

Anyway, from now on I will try to be really brief and focus more on positive side as it is much more beneficial. I wish everyone well discussions.

mikail firtinaci
Oct 11 2014 20:46

kurremkarmerruk;

thanks for continuously judging and labeling my views without even asking what are they. You just confirmed my previous experience about the nationalist left. There is a trend in Turkish/Kurdish left today: they boast themselves for being "open minded," and borrow at will fancy words taken from the latest post-modernist literature trends in order to denounce "worn out" theories of class and communism. However, when it comes to "the burning reality" they turn out to be the most stalinist "realist and practical men" using a third class mockery of the socialist realist jargon. The PKK with its bookchinist stalinism is the clearest example here.

Marx-Trek
Oct 11 2014 20:50

Mikail do you just not like kurremkarmerruk?

Again, we keep asking you to engage what is being discussed rather than throwing around accusations, of Stalinist this and Stalinist that. Please, what about our response to your 4 or 5 points raised? Anything else or are we going to just repeat ourselves over and over? I would love to read a counter to our points raised about your pointed concerns.

mikail firtinaci
Oct 11 2014 21:12

Marx-Trek;

I don't kurremkarmerruk. I am sure she is a nice person but what is the point here?

I am sorry, but I don't understand what "your points 4 or 5". As far as I understood you suggest that private property and "personal property" are not the same thing. Is this your point? However, beyond an obscure condemnation of "monopolies" (which was probably already not in existence in Rojeva) I don't see any "progressive" element that benefits workers and peasants in Rojeva in this constitution. I don't see how protection of private property by law is progressive?

I cited numerous sources showing that the oil income is used to support the state and army that PKK and its feudal and reactionary allies are establishing in the region. This is already what ISIS and Essad regimes were/are doing.

Baatist Essad regime was already a semi-state-socalism before it collapsed. And as I tried to point out earlier, in 60s Turkish leftist defended it "against imperialism" just because of that. PKK also worked with that regime for a long time. The only difference today is, if Essad regime was a nationalist and state capitalist regime in one tiny country, PKK wants to establish a smaller version of it in a bunch of villages and towns: a national municipal-socialism in one tiny small region.

Marx-Trek
Oct 11 2014 22:41

I meant with your constant nay-saying to anything uttered by kurremkarmerruk.

Yes, precisely, from what I got from reading the Rojava Constitution the two Articles, as above, concerning "private property" seem to be in reference to what I consider "personal property", thus not expressing support for the means of production. Now, as I am sure you are aware, and I would support such a criticism, if this begins to resemble social democracy and not something more as suggested by Dirik, then yes of course this would not be all that new.

However, if that would become the case, fine, so a social democratic state is established in the region. Now would that somehow lessen the struggle going on, no. But yes, your point that this is not some anarchist communist utopia was ever present, of course, but this is so far from the point. This again continues down the same logical conclusion that anything less than anarchist or communist is not worth support or solidarity.

Your right, the Constitution does not contain the words "workers" and "peasants" throughout the whole document and yes the establishment of such a Constitution itself is not anything new, considering that constitutions have been written since the French revolution up to the Soviet Constitution. But the Rojava, in its own words, goes further than any Constitution written so far. So yes, Mikail your concerns of future developments is understood. But who does not have concerns for any future development?

Oil production. Are you talking about Syrian Kurdish regions or Rojava Kurdish region or Iraqi oil production? PKK or the Kurdish Regional Government? All I can find about Oil ad PKK are alleged sabotages. The prospects of oil production an article: http://www.jpost.com/Features/Front-Lines/Behind-The-Lines-Defending-Roj...

Could you repost those oil production/export articles? That could be an interesting discussion. however, the Rojava Constitution, as stated above, considers the resources under the ground as part of the common welfare...so yes perhaps will become a state monopoly to fund projects and things for people in the social democratic sense or something as suggested by Dirik. So far, I am still more inclined to listen to Dirik on the topic rather than your posts suggesting something incoherently different.

Why is using oil to generate funding inherently bad, so what if ISIS and Essad (Assad), are we supposed to damn the autonomous people of Chiapas/EZLN for selling coffee or damn the IWW groups for funding itself through worker owned companies because this is not automatic communism or anarchism? Again, I will refer to Dirik's take and the book and articles have been read and will be read than your posts that dont really make strong conclusions, other than just this is bad because it isnt good enough.

There are differences between the PKK and Rojava Cantons despite their close ties and working within the region correct? Perhaps someone could clarify?

Again, a simple understanding in economics and and governance will allow you to conclude that dependent on what makes Essad's Syria and the Rojava Cantons different will determine what happens with any revenue. I do not agree with your point that because oil may be used to acquire funding for whatever is somehow bad. However, how those funds are produced does matter.

This is kind the point and what appears to be changing in the area. If you have work hour reports and other evidence other than your own statements, that would be valuable for the discussions but so far it seems to just be mere statements.

But yes, these things can be further discussed and need to be discussed to see what is happening in the Rojava Cantons. Would love to read more, but I think your comments do not offer enough insight to make any kind of informed opinion on the matter.

kurekmurek
Oct 12 2014 10:12

Teh:

That is actually pretty interesting comment teh:

1) Yeah that is truly a legitimate concern. however to my mind I see no better way to ensure the development of the role of women in an actually pretty conservative society ( I mean doing something like this: 1) some sort of positive discrimination, 2) equality on all jobs and 3) a separate organization of women) Moreover I think it is not true that we can mention a managerial class in Kurdish movement (and especially in Rojova I guess) because - you know- they are not a society, they are a political organisation and women take part not just as managerials but also militants and decision makers. But of course it is a valid issue if all these policies will mean a betterment for Kurdish women in the long run. Will they fight against any attempt to shut them down from internal as well as external threats is an imortant question.

2) I did not know about the Kurds fighting in IS. Can you provide links. As far as I know under the heavy influence of Islam IS for example does not allow any sign of Kurdish ethnicity (language, paganist celebrations like Newroz etc.) So this massacre issue come to this: If Kurdish people would give up their principles and ethnicity to one side yeah maybe they could be with IS. (I also suspect the religious sect of Is and Kurds does not correspond really actaully but I have not enough knowledge on that) But that step is long being taken and after this minute IS will not hesitate to kill everyone.

3)

Quote:
The secular army that has been fighting IS for three years now and has allowed Konabe to stay in YPGs hands for this long is the SAA

I think the reply to this is obvious: Assad regime is a dictatorship, It is racist, it is guilty of huge violations of Human rights to keep its pospulation in line. And maybe most importantly he does not propose any programme to develop egalitarian, libertarian tendencies in the region, in fact he was the most prominent opponent of these before IS. Assad of course ave much more firepower than Kurds and he can be credited for fighting IS.

The point is Kurdish Autonomy project proposes a programme that goes well beyond anything seen in the region. Its confederalism for example hated by all others. Its direct democracy principles are incomparably better than any other possiblity proposed by its opponents.so basically the significance of Kurds for leftist (to me) not just comes from they are secular in orientation to political structure, or just it has women fighting in ints side. But is somehow managed to formulate a very progressive programme and at the same time connected this programme a huge number of people that is willig to die for, for the realization of this confederalist, direct deocratic, gender equal, communalistic programme. I repeat this has otential to be a huge achievement. And it can not be ust reduced to on aspect of that programme. I think such analysis will miss the importance of whole experiment from the first move.

I think if somehow Autonomy movement will be able to survive. It will change the discussions of it in the future especially around the sentence I wrote in bold in the above.

3b)

Quote:
There were a bunch of Islamist groups in Kurdistan attacked by the PKK

You mean the kurds that align themselves with Iraq Kurdish region? Yeah they are repressed I guess. and you are right of course Kurds can not be equated with PKK. But I do not get the point here. If it is about comparing YDG with ots opponents I think the difference comes from the programme, the political ideology.

4) You are definitely right about imperialist powers and their role in emergence of IS. however nobody just supports Kurds, (at least) I support the programe of Kurds that has potential to show the world a united people can establish a much more egalitarian and libertarian society that is beyond ideals of Islamism, nationalism modernization by western powers etc.. ( I also particularly like the idea this is happening in the one of the places that is considered not fit for such inspirations to take root).

5) I did not know about this fact. My belief in the gender equality position of Kurdish movement (not the whole Kurdish society of course, if we can speak of one) come form my experiences with women in Kurdish movement in Turkey and the policies they implement. I might be wrong but IS lacks such programme. All I know about their policies about women is really fundamentally Islamist. women could go there and fight but I do not think they will aid the women as a whole in any way. I am open to learn more about IS and women

Marx-Trek
Oct 12 2014 18:17

Houzan Mahmound, Kurdish Feminist living in England on a Huffington Post Blog about Kobane resistance to ISIS:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/houzan-mahmoud/kobane-isis_b_5958150.htm...

The article appears to express and address some of the concerns of the Kurdish autonomy nay-sayers.

(1) The pro-Kurdish resistance view on US intervention does not appear to be simple cheerleading for Imperialist interests:

Quote:
First of all, I would personally never want to see US or Western intervention in any part of the Middle East. Every time they intervene, they leave the population in a long and never ending conflict, letting alone the bloodshed and political turmoil. The governments they install only bring more suppression and division to an already ravaged society. In the first place it was the Western government who carelessly drew these borders and divided Kurdistan into four parts, and ever since generation after generation experienced war, ongoing political violence, state terror, imprisonment, deprivation, executions and genocide.

Quote:
This is exactly in opposition to the aim and ideals of western powers who have always wanted the Middle East to be in conflict and 'governed' on the bases of ethnic, religious and tribal differences.

Quote:
They [the West] refuse support because it's not the kind of political model or society that the West aspires to see. The only form of society that is advocated is a neoliberal one based on individualism, the 'free market' and class division. This kind of society is not concerned with collectivism, politics or revolutionary ideals but is instead obsessed with careerism and consumerism.

Quote:
Therefore the example of Kobanê does not match the US and Western neoliberal model of ethno sectarian regimes like those installed in Afghanistan and Iraq after their occupation. Kobanê is different: it's a common based and inclusive politics; it has gender equality at heart. Free market and selfish individualism is not advocated by these fighters. What is happening in Kobanê is a new revolution at all levels. Facing ISIS and keeping hold of an experience of running society on the basis of collective action, gender equality and cultural progress is an extraordinary example.

(2) A new form of collectivism has been brought about, suggesting a new emergence and new development within the political forces of Rojava.

Quote:
Throughout this time, a new model of politics built upon and defending the experience of collective self-rule has emerged.

Quote:
Under this self-rule half of all official posts are held by women, people run collective grass-roots activity regardless of their "ethnic" and "religious" origins. This self-rule is commune-centred with a constitution explicitly rejecting the form of nation-state and advocates the protection of the environment and ecology.

(3) On Gender & Children.

Quote:
In addition gender equality and children's rights are at the heart of the social programme of Kobane's revolutionary people.

Questions or Concerns:

I wonder what the differences are and the relationships between the various Kurdish organizations, political parties, and regional organizations. There seems to be a wide rage of leftist ideologies within the larger Kurdish political projects. As with this quote,

Quote:
We have seen very little support given to the struggle of the brave freedom fighters/Peshmarga from Western governments and it is obvious why they do not want to support Kobanê.

I know that the Peshmarga is the fighting force of the Iraqi Kurdish region and I believe they are connected to the Kurdistan Regional Government (general news knowledge and wiki reading). This faction or section of the Kurdish political movement (Iraqi) appears to operate more like a state and perhaps modeled on a more western styled social democracy or even liberal center. Any thoughts, insight, or concerns with my assertion?

Also, it does not appear that the political groups and political ideologies of the organizations we have been discussing (PKK, YPG, Rojava Canton, DAF, etc...) are included in the Iraqi Kuridish political system. Are the semi-autonomous regional differences (Turkey, Syria, Iraq, & Iran) important factors within the wider Kurdish political landscape? It does not appear that the entire Kurdish political landscape unite under one economic/political banner of Kurdistan and fight as a single unit. There only seems to be an agreement to fight along side for defensive reasons. And the only agreement I can find seems to suggest that such an agreement was expressly within Syrian Kurdistan. Right?

Also, I imagine that regional differences are important in further understanding the larger Kurdish political and social landscape in relation to Rojava Canton and the more autonomous areas within the Syrian Kurdish area.

Further, I would be interested in finding more economic pieces writtten about the Rojava Canton and the greater regional economics of semi-autonomoous Kurdistan, anyone have any links or suggestions.

Wiki Knowledge and differences and many Kurdistans:

1. Iraqi Kurdistan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Iraqi_Kurdistan

2. Syrian Kurdistan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Kurdistan#Cantons
*Note - the Cantons (the point of interests here) are seemingly even more autonomous from the larger Syrian region and the general larger Kurdistan.

3. Turkish Kurdistan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Kurdistan
* Turkey still controls and claims the area and the PKK has mounted a guerilla war against Turkish domination. An interesting point/counter-point, in 2002 the EU found no other reason, other than political reasons, for having the PKK remain on an international terrorist list.

4. Iranian Kurdistan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Kurdistan

ISIS Video discussion:

Interesting ISIS video addressing Western geopolitical interests and criticism of such interventionists strategies: Huffington Post video interview on Geopolitics, US interests, and ISIS: http://video.huffingtonpost.co.uk/video/the-powers-behind-the-islamic-st...

Spikymike
Oct 12 2014 18:49

I can see why many here including some anarchists found the speech by Dilar Dirik inspiring as she argued strongly, and apparently on behalf of many organised Kurdish women, against the idea of 'the state' as a means of securing womens liberation or any kind of human freedom and for independent self-organisation of people. She also made some interesting contrasts between the underlying ideological approach of the 'democratic confederalism' as practiced in Syrian Kurdistan with the politics of Iraqi Kurdistan, though in the current situation her claims of superiority for the former as a means of defense against ISIS and other opponents without recourse to reliance on other world and regional statist players seems pretty threadbare. Whatever the claimed benefits of democratic confederalism currently to people in Syrian Kurdistan as contrasted with the dire example of ISIS control elsewhere there seems little to back up the idea that such as system of democratic communalism (rather than communism) has any better chance in the longer term of securing a genuine Kurdish autonomy or other form of independence without the compliance of some, or a number of other world and regional powers. Ignoring existing states rather than attacking them does not seem to offer anyway forward. She also, at least in the time she had, placed most emphasis on the forms of democracy in representing both genders and ethnic and religious 'communities' and a generalised 'people' with no clear approach to economic systems or class divisions so we are left at this stage unable to understand what her passing critical reference to capitalism means in practice. At this point I don't see a need to revise what I said previously on the 'democratic confederalist' strategy.

Marx-Trek
Oct 12 2014 18:58

So I guess after all this discussion we all still have the same conclusion. I support anarchist solidarity actions, support, and networking with the Rojava Cantons against ISIS and look with interest and enthusiasm at the social, political, and economic developments coming along. At this moment I see what is being done as something positive and hope it will continue to develop along autonomous communal lines. Time will tell, but with such a positive view on autonomy and autonomous activity it looks favorable unless outside forces overrun the region - hence our concerns with ISIS.

Hey, kurremkarmerruk, I was wondering, are you going to get that new book Democratic Autonomy in North Kurdistan. Perhaps we could start a new discussion threat on the book and looking deeper into the Cantons?

Marx-Trek
Oct 12 2014 19:05

Spikymike, indeed that is a very relevant and interesting point being raised. I think you were able to articulate , unlike most posts on this thread, a concern that most of us on this thread share (though seemingly a unknowingly shared concerned by some). Finally, someone with a political-economy concern rather than just pure ideological concerns.

It could be that the economic question has yet to have been raised by the Cantons themselves in any expansive manner since they seem to have emerged ,more or less ,under the siege of war.

But yeah anything that can be found on the economics within the Cantons would be a very exciting read indeed!

Marx-Trek
Oct 12 2014 19:34

A report back from the Cantons , an economic discussion is included, from Anarkismo,net: http://www.anarkismo.net/article/27301

kurekmurek
Oct 13 2014 11:17

Hello all:

https://www.facebook.com/siyasihaberorg/photos/a.630258333703222.1073741...

I do not know if I could posting links to photos will work but here it is.

This is:

Nejat Ağırnaslı (Paramaz Kızılbaş)

He was a dedicated communist who give up his master's degree education in Bogazici and went to Kobane to fight. He was a friend of many leftists and anarchists in Turkey. He was well known for his militancy in practice and competency in theory. He was the turkish translator of "The revolutionary theories of Luois Auguste Blanqui" (by Alan B. Spitzer). He was killed in fight as a member of MLKP guerillas (Marxist-Leninist communist party) while fighting IS with YPG forces in Kobane.

Here is a bit younger photo of him:

https://www.facebook.com/anarsihaber/photos/a.294699383952220.71947.2532...
(He is the one on the right in this pic, this is apparently taken while he was protesting in the street for abolishing the Terror Act: That criminalizes a lot of revolutionary groups and a constant threat to many protesters. His sign read HDK (The congress related to Kurdish movement in Turkey. This congress unites a lot of parties, civil societies etc...)

I wished this to report here: I will also make some more updates today I guess...

-----------------

NOTE 1:
Also I just found this interview made with him after he was arrested as a member of KCK (the self-organized people's community, it is like a counter power organization) with so little evidence like he was communist etc...

http://istiraki.blogspot.com.tr/2014/10/nejat-agrnasl-soylesisi.html

It can be read by using google translate, I add the part he mentions why he sees Kurdish movement important as a communist (in a slightly altered machine translation):

At this point, the Kurdish movement makes a difference, other than designing a project; they implement it. Kurds create their own agenda, discussions and actualize it. this renders state impotent. Turkish Republic (TR) can not offer an alternative project for the region. So it repeats its tradition. when it does not murders, it makes arrests. When it does not destroy, it denies. In addition, the TR also does not have a project for the West. Rulers does not know how they can rule, the ruled can govern themselves and the Kurds are making leadership to it.

NOTE 2:
http://www.bianet.org/biamag/emek/136458-freelance-calisan-orgutlenebili...

And here is another text by him, written on how the freelance workers can be united. You can try to make a sense of it by using Google translate. (By the way I think the main theme of the text is this: the encouragement of syndicalism (and a call to it) especially its anarchistic variant as opposed to contemporary reflexive work regime and its forms of labor) I wish to translate one passage that illustrates his approach:

In short, the dream is this: A step that situates itself as an anti-capitalist political position by its practical existence and its political engagement. And also a one that actually fights a political struggle, transforms the work into an art by its internal education and politicizing the lives of its members by changing them. A step in the first phase that wishes not to make its language but its attitude a communist one. A step that emphasizes the world is larger than itself [the dreamed organization] and moreover it organizes this emphasis. A step that is not just an humble one...

kurekmurek
Oct 13 2014 10:36

By the way a disturbing news from the Border gate Mursitpinar:

http://www.sendika.org/2014/10/isid-ele-geciremedi-tsk-el-atiyor-askerle...

According to this military authorities at the border (which is according to certain news and contrary to what Turkish government says, closed to at least 5 day for now) also started to warn the YPG guerrillas they should go out of the area surrounding the Turkish border and threat them with attacking.

If Turkish army takes such an action this will result in the losing of the only side of Kobane (the northern side, the Turkish border) and it will be taken by IS, as they are already fighting to conquer that area. Thus rendering the city totally surrounded.

kurekmurek
Oct 13 2014 13:50

I also would like to make a comment about some stuff that has been discussed (or addressed to me) to further the discussion:

1)

Quote:
Anyone got any thing to say about this group or action. I know its from August of this year but still interesting.
http://www.anarsihaber.org/izmirde-rojava-katliamina-karsi-eylem

They are a very loosely organized group in Izmir that can only be described as a pananarchist.I guess. anarsihaber itself is also a pananarchist website. However I was in İzmir last weekend (and I plan to be there regularly) and I think I met with some of the people who organized this. (did not discussed this particular demo: It was solidarity vegetarian breakfast with Kobane to discuss and come together) They organize solidarity stuff with refugees and have good plans to make reporting of the situation from internet (let's leave details of it here, if it works I will say it. I hope to have results at least within this week)

2)

Quote:
antifa support for Kurdish resistance: http://www.antifa.de/cms/

Yeah The German anarchist seem to have really good relations with the Kurdish movement. I also would like to point out that Kurdish movement organizes events called "Mesopotamia social forum" There was a lot of European participants, it was the first time I guessed I realized the inspiration of the Kurdish struggle give to more general global leftist movements and individuals etc. Anyway I do not know when the next one will be but you should have an ear on it (is this an appropriate phrase) http://www.msf.web.tr/msf/ ( I guess there are some English texts)

3) About the constitution I would like to make another post, as I find it very important (maybe in an another threat you posed??)

4)

Yeah as the support for Kobane was brutally repressed by the state forces. Most of the solidarity actions take the form of violent crashes. Plus there is The local Hezbollah here which is an ethnically Kurdish Islamic organization that was in cooperation with the state and used as an paramilitary arm of the state against the socialistic, secular Kurdish movement (in Turkish Kurdistan of course not in west). They also moved to street (might with or without provocation of the PKK). This resulted in armed fights between them. And in the western and central Anatolia there were nationalists who "keep" the peace and beat the shit out of people in cooperation with the cops. They are mostly Grey wolves you mention and you are right about your every comment about them. Their party is MHP (national action party) it is racist totally hierarchical in organization. They even announced officially that: “The Kurds will miss the IS if MHP comes to power.” Also the widespread nationalism (established by education and other forms of state nationalist cultural propagandation practice etc) in Turkish population currently helps them to gather masses in many cities where Kurdish are minority. However that toll now exceeds 40 in Turkey now. They are relatively calmed down for now.

Also a more individual note: Even this weekend when we were in a protest to support Kobane in İzmir they gathered a few streets away. Luckly as we did not moved but just made a public announcement and shouted slogans nothing happened

Also a side note: Unfortunately these clashes do not occur in politically correct ways of course. The hatred of cops and against Kurds, The political rivalry between Hezbollah and PKK and Kurdish people's general hatred towards anything related to Turkish state results in pretty bad clashes and deaths and destruction of public and private property. This in turn gives enough images for media to make one-sided news and give cards to state to play as only peacekeeper" and further agitate the population about the evilness of PKK at the same time using a rhetoric of brotherhood with "good" kurds and emphasizing an Islamic unity (or blaming the secularity of PKK etc...) This combined with also possible political conflicts internal to state (like this AKP - Gulen Society problems) creates a huge area to be manipulation of the masses and further nationalize them and make them racist or at least anti-Kurdish.

5)

Quote:
This faction or section of the Kurdish political movement (Iraqi) appears to operate more like a state and perhaps modeled on a more western styled social democracy or even liberal center. Any thoughts, insight, or concerns with my assertion?

Quote:
It does not appear that the entire Kurdish political landscape unite under one economic/political banner of Kurdistan and fight as a single unit. There only seems to be an agreement to fight along side for defensive reasons. And the only agreement I can find seems to suggest that such an agreement was expressly within Syrian Kurdistan. Right?

Yeah I think you are right. There are a lot of accusations made by PKK or PYD members against Iraqi Kurdish region. That they do not support the Rojova as much as they could one of the reasons for it is that they left Shengal to IS and refused to accept refugees. Moreover they do not condemn the actions of Turkey. Even in their latest speech for example an official connected to them is very supportive and says he does not want to comment much on Turkey and IS relation: http://www.radikal.com.tr/turkiye/mesut_barzani_turkiye_silah_verdi_ama_...
All this does not make happy Kurdish movement and interpreted as he only things for his own region like a state etc.

7)

Quote:
Hey, kurremkarmerruk, I was wondering, are you going to get that new book Democratic Autonomy in North Kurdistan. Perhaps we could start a new discussion threat on the book and looking deeper into the Cantons?

I was not thinking to buy it outright now (financial reasons) however I can read other stuff written that I know interesting related but however did not read the still. I would like to have another discussion (more theoratical, ideologcial significance and influence of the Rojova) and also maybe another discussion for providing info news etc ???

I will keep posting (try to be much shorter grin )

Mark.
Oct 13 2014 17:48
kurekmurek
Oct 13 2014 19:47

http://www.aljazeera.com.tr/haber/pydden-zorunlu-askerlik

http://www.wri-irg.org/node/23519

Apparently YPG started to draft people to its army (well to itself) by the way. They passed the law sometime ago and now they started to implement it i guess.

kurekmurek
Oct 13 2014 19:38

This site has a lot of translated reports and interviews by the way and it is updated regularly:

http://rojavareport.wordpress.com/

kuti
Oct 14 2014 05:37

The YPG has announced the death of Suphi Nejat Ağırnaslı, a member of the Marxist-Leninist Communist Party of Turkey (MLKP) who was martyred in clashes with ISIS in Kobanê.

http://rojavareport.wordpress.com/2014/10/14/ypg-commemorates-turkish-ml...

Marx-Trek
Oct 14 2014 05:52

kurremkarmerruk, thanks for the update and further explanations.

kurekmurek
Oct 14 2014 07:40

grin you are welcome

By the way this is also possibly interesting:

http://www.radikal.com.tr/turkiye/turk_savas_ucaklarindan_pkk_mevzilerin...

Accrodig to news Turkish fighter jets bombarded camps of PKK in Daglica. as the so called "peace process" has started there was a (de facto) ceasefire. However if this is true Turkey (as it never declared cease fire) will attack to PKK thus ending the "peace" negotiations.

also:

http://www.radikal.com.tr/turkiye/pkknin_iki_ust_duzey_ismi_yuz_tanimaya...

Two PKK militant who were wounded in the Kobane were caught while trying to come to Turkey at the border by face recognition systems.

These two news at least imply that Turkish state might not just wish to end the existence of Autonomous project, it might be aiming to end whole of Kurdish resistance together.

kurekmurek
Oct 14 2014 09:39

http://pflp.ps/english/2014/10/13/pflp-calls-for-unified-revolutionary-f...

Popular Front for Liberation of Palestine calls for unified revolutionary front of solidarity with the struggle of people of Kobane against ISIS

Burgers
Oct 14 2014 13:22

It's as though Spain never happened!

Mark.
Oct 14 2014 17:26

IFA statement in Spanish:

http://www.alasbarricadas.org/noticias/node/32603

Is there an English translation of this?

Edit: translation here (scroll down page):

http://www.i-f-a.org/index.php/statements/556-against-the-terror-of-the-...

Soapy
Oct 14 2014 16:18

bin please

tw_
Oct 15 2014 00:18

Nice to find that discussion topic, since i was not checking libcom for long time. Here the things i want to add to the discussion: But if the PYD's mandatory military service thing is real. The so called revolution and and support perspective which is written on my comment is totaly needs to be forgotten... If this is true, it's a practically a state which doesn't call itself a state; with its military forces, police, prisons etc... Hope that news is not real at least...
http://www.aljazeera.com.tr/haber/pydden-zorunlu-askerlik

"
Wahab and Serhat, two young activists with the Revolutionary Anarchist Action (DAF) in Turkey, who have been at the border for over two weeks to show their solidarity with the Kurds from Kobanê, help refugees on both sides of the frontier and are keeping guard in one of the villages to prevent aspiring jihadists from crossing into Syria to join ISIS. They share Abdurrahman’s opinion: “The revolution in Rojava is against state formation and terrorist gangs, it is based on emancipation and direct democracy; it is about autonomy and self-administration and rejects any form of hierarchy and authority.”
"

http://roarmag.org/2014/10/kurdistan-kobane-turkey-isis/

----------------------------------------------------------------------

It's far more complex than that, supporting a kind of autonomy can not be justified by putting our ideologic perspectives on the reality; realities of the invidividuals and groups; what really is going on. But those individuals from DAF, missing important points and i think this their ideological choice. (NOT JUST DAF, GENERALLY EVERYONE, ESPECIALLY ANARCHIST WHO HAS NO CRITICS TO THE "GOOD" SIDES)

First of all there's no direct demoracy in Rojava, there's a kind of representative democracy which named as: Democratic Confederalism. As it's noted in the Rojava Constitution by the creators of it not by some outsiders or any writer which is important because they, themselves, don't call that practices as a direct democracy example:

"Article 8

All Cantons in the Autonomous Regions are founded upon the principle of local self-government. Cantons may freely elect their representatives and representative bodies, and may pursue their rights insofar as it does not contravene the articles of the Charter."

http://civiroglu.net/the-constitution-of-the-rojava-cantons/

It's very long topic to discuss but that doesn't mean that we need to stop discussing it as the importance of that experience will not be insignificant because it's not anarchic way. David Graeber was right even though he was missing some important point in terms of pointing important differences between anarchist (not just anarchists of course) uprising in Spain in 1936 and Rojava since 2 years. As in my knowledge the anarchists were rejecting all kind of authorities mostly in Spain, there're very hard critics even those times to the anarchists union when they called for vote for the election by saying:

" “The entry of the C.N.T. into the government of Madrid is one of the most important facts of the political history of our country. The C.N.T. has always on principal and by conviction been anti-State and the enemy of every form of government. But circumstances, nearly always superior to the human will although determined by it, have transformed the nature of government and the Spanish State. At the present time the government as a regular instrument of the State is no longer an oppressive force against the working class.” "
http://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/alfredo-m-bonanno-a-critique-of-s...

In that dimension and that comparison with Rojava, there're still not that much "historical ideologic manipluations" in Rojava, that's mostly positive for Rojava since they're not a part of the Syria in practice but in theory within their discourses, they're advising their model for all syria, so in a way or so which is openly means there'll be hierarchy as it exists now.

But the "DAF anarchists" -with the spirit of the hard conditions and propably for their own motivations- doesn't see those important differences, at least that's my experience with them.

Rather than putting their ideology, there're also some anarchist individuals who support Rojava without any critic but openly saying that; in that context and circumstances, we are supporting Rojava Revolution even though they're a hierarchical organisation in general, there's an represantative democracy, industrialization projects and so on, but especially when ISIS attacking we'll not be sticked to the anarchists perspectives... Which i found problematic...

There needs to be critical support in my opinion, critical because there're so much propaganda from all sides, including Rojava Revolutio support because some of the imperialist propagandas equalize the Rojava with classic national-states and destroys the differences. And some, like Turkish state even equalizing the ISIS and YPG.

A question for the ones who doesn't like the "Rojava Revolution" to be criticised. Look at the history it'll tell what may happen if there're no critics, but only if you can see... What the history says?

tw_
Oct 15 2014 02:43

It may be pretty much realised soon, even though if the al-jazeree was manipulating the news. Based on the law that passed in Rojava months ago, in July:

http://www.diclehaber.com/en/news/content/view/410688?from=1923065108

Another source, War Resisters' International:
http://www.wri-irg.org/node/23519

Marx-Trek
Oct 15 2014 04:25

Again, there are obvious differences between what happened in Spain 1936-39 and what is happening in Rojava.

Here we go again. If you look deeper into Spain 1936-39, (CNT-FAI, POUM, etc...), the Spain that is being raised up on high here in an attempt to contrast anything that is less-anarchistic than the over-generalized current understanding of what happened in Spain 1936-39 then perhaps the constant critique that Rojava is not Spain would be less of perceived strong counter point to Rojava.

But yes, again, what is happening in Rojava and the other Cantons is not Spain 1936-39. And yes, a strong anarchist and syndicalist tendency, along with other libertarian-socialists unions and militias, did not establish the Canton as they did in Spain. With that being admitted and stated be plenty of people on this thread, what is the point? Is the point that anarchists were a very large part of what happened in Spain and anarchists (as category that can be counted by anarchists raising their hands) are not a very large part of what is happening in the Canton? Because, the critique that elections are happening and representation is happening in the Cantons and therefore it is not somehow "anarchistic" is way way to generalized and indicates a surface level understanding of Spain 1936-39. There are a lot of great articles and pdf books here on libcom.org that can be read and details a very deep understanding and study of Spain 1936-39.

Hate to break it to ya, voting happened in Spain, representation happened in Spain, Orders were given at the front, etc... Though, as an anarchist/autonomist-leftist I do not see all this as some indication of less this "anarchism" (whatever that means) that happened in Spain or what is emerging in the Cantons now. I do not think this makes what happened in Spain any less anarchistic or the recent developments in the Cantons any less interesting and hopeful.

I suggest reading:

Collectives in the Spanish Revolution by Gaston Leval
(found here on libcom at https://libcom.org/library/collectives-spanish-revolution-gaston-leval )

- With such shockingly named chapter titles such as: Materials for a Revolution; Collectivist Book-keeping; Libertarian Democracy; The Charters; Industrial Achievements; and Political Collaboration.

Collectives in the Spanish Revolution is an amazing book that goes into great detail.

Though ideology can go a long way, what is more important is the changing relationships between people and forcing anarchist/autonomist-leftist/anti-capitalist analysis of production and reproduction of society along non-capitalist lines. If you read the economic history and system of production and consumption in Spain, the Rojava Constitution and what is emerging in within the Cantons would not seem so far apart as assumed.

Ideology is important but ideology is not the end of the line.

I admit that the Cantons are not Spain. But neither is Chiapas. Etc... As some of the articles already linked here show that the Cantons are beginning to make drastic changes within the economic realm. As has been expressed, multiple times again, looking at the developments in the Cantons and compare that to Spain, Chiapas, etc... is relevant and would be a very interesting conversation.