Avoiding Debt, and avoiding prison

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enriquemessonier
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Mar 5 2006 17:17
Avoiding Debt, and avoiding prison

Anyone know some good resources on debts, debt collection, my rights as debtor, rights of debt cellector agencies, bailaiffs, CCJs, etc. the whole shabang.

Im in a mountain of debt (thousands on various credit cards, postgrad loans, overdrafts etc), and now owe savage amounts of rent.

so will i ever go to prison, or is it never a acriminal offence to default on debts - exclucing council tax, TV license, government student loans etc?

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Serge Forward
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Mar 5 2006 17:35
enriquemessonier wrote:
Anyone know some good resources on debts, debt collection, my rights as debtor, rights of debt cellector agencies, bailaiffs, CCJs, etc. the whole shabang.

Im in a mountain of debt (thousands on various credit cards, postgrad loans, overdrafts etc), and now owe savage amounts of rent.

so will i ever go to prison, or is it never a acriminal offence to default on debts - exclucing council tax, TV license, government student loans etc?

Here's the CAB's pages on debt: http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/life/debt.htm

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Lazy Riser
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Mar 5 2006 17:36

Hi

You're unlikely to face prison unless you wilfully resist paying state debt, such as tax or (strangely enough) TV licence.

The C.A.B are great at debt, you might like to read this...

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/life/debt/help_with_debt.htm

Love

LR

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Lazy Riser
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Mar 5 2006 17:36

Hi

Ho ho. Great minds think alike.

Love

LR

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jef costello
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Mar 6 2006 00:28

If you don't have any assets or kids then it might be worth going bankrupt to clear off the loans. It probably won't make a huge dent in your life unless you're planning to be a company director smile

CAB are good, go to Lazy Riser's branch.

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Steven.
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Mar 6 2006 03:52

Yeah check that link out. There's a couple of bits here too you may find useful... http://libcom.org/organise/personal/

The Porkadian
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Mar 6 2006 17:13
Lazy Riser wrote:
Hi

You're unlikely to face prison unless you wilfully resist paying state debt, such as tax or (strangely enough) TV licence.

The C.A.B are great at debt, you might like to read this...

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/life/debt/help_with_debt.htm

Love

LR

you can go to jail for not paying your tv license, english law is so draconian, whereas in scotland we are so much more refined with our laws grin

enriquemessonier
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Mar 7 2006 00:19

erm, I already knew most of this.

the CAB advised me to pay stuff. I mean

what if I;

1) DONT pay ANTHING

2) Dont tell them of change of address, keep track of my debts etc.

3) If they get a CCJ, or bailiffs, does them trying to get their money back ever become a criminal offence on my part if i TOTALLY ignore them? can it be classed as fruad or deception if I have shown no intention to pay back?

also re; bailiffs, what if they take other peoples stuff thinking its mine? is the onus on THEM to prove it IS, or me to prove it ISNT?

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jef costello
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Mar 7 2006 00:24

If you have no intention of paying then go bankrupt ASAP, why faff around when you can get all your debts wiped. just be careful to transfer your assets and be a bit subtle about it.

Student loan can be written off when you go bankrupt, protection was removed a couple of years ago.

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Lazy Riser
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Mar 7 2006 00:48

Hi

Quote:
1) DONT pay ANTHING

CCJs and bailiffs.

Quote:
2) Dont tell them of change of address, keep track of my debts etc.

If you manage to avoid contact for seven years then you might get away with it, as long as it’s not state debt. If you owe the government money, they stand a good chance of getting to you. If you wilfully ignore state debt, you will be jailed, and you’ll still owe it when you get out.

Quote:
If they get a CCJ, or bailiffs, does them trying to get their money back ever become a criminal offence on my part if i TOTALLY ignore them? can it be classed as fruad or deception if I have shown no intention to pay back?

If it’s tax, benefit repayments, parking fines etc etc. Then yes, ignoring them can get you nicely detained.

Quote:
what if they take other peoples stuff thinking its mine? is the onus on THEM to prove it IS, or me to prove it ISNT?

If you don’t own anything, you’ll still owe the money. Plus a fee to the bailiffs. In the end you will be put in receipt of a bankruptcy order, if it’s state debt then the government may jail you, although they'll usually accept an "arrangement".

Love

LR

enriquemessonier
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Mar 7 2006 02:02

with regard to the above; every thing i owe is credit cards, overdrafts, rent, etc.

the student loan is governemnt, but I dont HAVE to pay that back, cos im not getting 85 per cent of nat avg wage.

so the same quesitons agian re bank debts? even if theyre enforced by CCJs - arent my debts then to state magistrates???

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Lazy Riser
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Mar 7 2006 09:43

Hi

Quote:
so the same quesitons agian re bank debts? even if theyre enforced by CCJs - arent my debts then to state magistrates???

Nope. You owe the bank. What they do to get the money depends on how much you owe. I suppose they could go to a high court and ask for you to put into bankruptcy, but I've never seen it myself.

Love

LR

Vaneigemappreci...
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Mar 7 2006 19:12
Quote:
You owe the bank. What they do to get the money depends on how much you owe. I suppose they could go to a high court and ask for you to put into bankruptcy, but I've never seen it myself.

you can be made bankrupt on a petition of creditors (all those you owe) like lazy says they can go to court and pass over their petition arguing that you should be made bankrupt, at which point the official receiver will set about the task of realising any assets you may have in order to pay off the creditors and take a nice slice for himself. And bankruptcy aint as cushy as its made out to be, yes its easier to be made bankrupt nowadays and theres less stigma attached to it, but theyre still gonna put you through a lot of shit over a long period of time until the money is paid to the debtors and the official receiver has his fat slice of cake.

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Lazy Riser
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Mar 7 2006 19:26

Hi

Quote:
I think it costs about £300 to do it

Ho Ho. I know people who’ve taken out a swift no-questions-asked loan to get the fee (which they don’t need to pay back).

Love

LR

Vaneigemappreci...
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Mar 7 2006 19:36
Quote:
You can present your own petition to be made bankrupt, I think it costs about £300 to do it, and then you go into bankruptcy for one year, and then after that you are discharged. Whilst bankrupt you can't be a director of a company or get credit, but once you're discharged you can do it all again (although it will be a bit harder to get!). Banks/credit card companies etc. aren't that bothered if you go bankrupt.

however "discharge" doesnt mean your absolved of any debts you owe, you could contnue to owe creditors for a fucking long time, however the official receiver can only take what you have at the time of bankruptcy, not any assets you come into afterwards, so pressumably if you had nothing to hand-over then a zero credit/debit balance would be given and apart from restrictions on certain business ventures you'd be clean.

enriquemessonier
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Mar 7 2006 19:56

this is all helpful cheers.

I thought I was right; that I could just borrow all this money and not pay it back as long as I didnt want to own a house or car any time soon.

anyway, I cant borrow many anyways, and i own essentially nothing.

so is it worth paying £300 to wipe out £25k of debt/hassles??

well, where the fuck do i get the £300 from?!!

hahaha

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Lazy Riser
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Mar 7 2006 21:49

Hi

Quote:
well, where the fuck do i get the £300 from?!!

I recently discovered that your local high street niche lenders are surprising easily duped, just don't borrow the exact fee, that sets alarm bells off. You can make up a story as to what you intend to spend it on, there is no law against changing your mind.

Love

LR

Vaneigemappreci...
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Mar 7 2006 22:22

yeah, you know what i meant to say, discharge doesnt mean annulment, ie the bankruptcy still stands if you have assets that are yet to be realised, but of course like you say, if you dont have any assets 8)

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jef costello
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Mar 7 2006 22:42

You're right Tommy Ascaso. According to the NUS website they closed the loophole allowing you to discharge student loans in 2004.

Although I remember reading a Guardian article a few years before that was crowing over the government climbdown in allowing loans to be discharged.

enriquemessonier
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Mar 8 2006 18:33
Lazy Riser wrote:
Hi
Quote:
well, where the fuck do i get the £300 from?!!

I recently discovered that your local high street niche lenders are surprising easily duped, just don't borrow the exact fee, that sets alarm bells off. You can make up a story as to what you intend to spend it on, there is no law against changing your mind.

Love

LR

"local high street niche lenders"

Sorry you'll have to help me here.

Look, I;

1) became a student. got the loans. am prepared to pay them back on their terms, i.e., if I ever earn more than 85% of the national average wage.

2) got credit cards; at leats 3. at least £3k in total, on top of the £7.5k student loan, plus extra £1.5k for no reason, maybe cos I went on an exchange.

3) borrowed £1.5k overdraft. interest free. not sure if this means forever, presumably not if I default.

4) borrowed £8k to study Political Philosophy. 8)

5) Spent approx £1k of housing benefit money on enjoying myslef, and not gettign a job.

7) Never intended paying any of this back.

8) Don't feel any guilt abut this fact

Do I ever go to prison or not?

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jef costello
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Mar 8 2006 18:40

I think you should go bankrupt.

That way you can start the game all over again. If you have no intention of paying then why not get it over with. You're only allowing them to increase the debt with penalties etc. and thus give themselves a tax write off.

I think that housing benefit money is a govt debt too. That may turn out to be a fucker. I'd follow the advice early and repay that using a prsonal loan.

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Lazy Riser
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Mar 8 2006 18:50

Hi

Quote:
Do I ever go to prison or not?

Not likely. That 8 grand's worth of political philosophy was a waste of time if it hasn’t even taught you how to keep your head above water, you should ask for your money back.

I recommend you start a Regeneration Consultancy. The bank will then allow you to consolidate your debts into a business loan whilst you trek around the country putting the case for town plaza developments at the tax payer's expense.

Love

LR

Antieverything
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Nov 19 2008 02:31

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Nov 18 2008 08:55

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cantdocartwheels
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Nov 18 2008 11:48
Quote:
5) Spent approx £1k of housing benefit money on enjoying myslef, and not gettign a job.

Thats the one, you need to get rid of. Its not that wipeable, also for everything else theres loads of legal advice out there, however your going to find yourself rapidly losing sympathy at the average CAB/charity if you reveal that particular bombshell, and that will make it a lot harder to get good advice/legal help etc.. Not that theres anything wrong with taking the money, personally i reckon you should con the government out of as much as possible, but its worth thinking about how most people would see it.

lalala
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Nov 18 2008 12:04

Enric Duran is still free...