Are you gunna 'do' the G8?

Aye - cabre, kilts and riot cops
50% (21 votes)
Nay - err.. Marxism 2005?
50% (21 votes)
Total votes: 42

Posted By

Jacques Roux
May 25 2005 16:41

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mave
Jun 27 2005 20:55

ok, so would you like to explaine why not? and if you disagree with the G8 what you would do to combat/undermine etc them? and lets accept doing nothing is not a valid option.

mave
Jun 27 2005 21:16

reading your post you remind me of my sisters opinion of me when I was an angry 14 year old just putting things I didn’t have the arguments or direction to take forward down with a blanket negative. But that was before I'd read Bakunin, Kropotkin, Meltzer & Christie. redyred, it's not enough to just simply issue a negative, not unless you think the way forward will be brought about by telepathy. If you have an opinion then share it, if you have a vision then share it, if you have half the answers then please share them.

mave
Jun 27 2005 21:29

sorry you feel that way Tommy Ascaso, accepted we make gains in our day to day struggle esp. through workplace struggle, unofficial strikes etc. that said to build a movement wouldn’t you agree we have to build the wider movement? Building with workers across the world that face the same day to day struggles? Maybe I got this site wrong; I thought it was for international solidarity? Maybe I make the assumption that to gain ground we have to be linked to the international movement. If I’m wrong and this forum is for English based anarchist/libertarian then accept my apologies.

mave
Jun 27 2005 21:38

I dont want to be rude to you but who do you think is coming? there's already, for the past week been a base in Glasgow where our international friends are based, more to arrive, there has been for over a year liason with groups throughout the world. The G8 wherever they meet are met by and shown resistance by international collectives regarless of what remote location they chose to hold their meetings . It's a pity you cant make it, I think you'd get a lot from it.

redyred
Jun 27 2005 22:18
mave wrote:
reading your post you remind me of my sisters opinion of me when I was an angry 14 year old just putting things I didn’t have the arguments or direction to take forward down with a blanket negative. But that was before I'd read Bakunin, Kropotkin, Meltzer & Christie. redyred, it's not enough to just simply issue a negative, not unless you think the way forward will be brought about by telepathy. If you have an opinion then share it, if you have a vision then share it, if you have half the answers then please share them.

I do have the answers, and I did share them. The first answer was no. The second answer was also no.

You said this was an opportunity to talk to "at least a million people angry at issues as varied but intertwined as third world poverty, neoliberalism and war". I have talked to many of these people before, let's for the sake of argument say 100 of them. I found that most of them were boring and many of them smell. As such I have no desire to talk to a further 999, 900.

Mike Harman
Jun 27 2005 22:20
mave wrote:
for the past week been a base in Glasgow where our international friends are based, more to arrive, there has been for over a year liason with groups throughout the world. The G8 wherever they meet are met by and shown resistance by international collectives regarless of what remote location they chose to hold their meetings

Are those "international friends" there in their capacity as workers, or in their capacity as political activists? If we concentrate on making changes in our day-to-day lives, then co-ordinate people across regions and national boundaries, the nature of the thing we need to fight against doesn't change.

redyred
Jun 27 2005 22:29
mave wrote:
The G8 wherever they meet are met by and shown resistance by international collectives regarless of what remote location they chose to hold their meetings .

The G8 are not the crystalised essence of capitalist exploitation.

A bunch of anti-capitalists from the activist ghetto along with a horde of liberals summoned up by Bob Geldoff does not contribute to the internationalisation of workers struggles.

Mike Harman
Jun 27 2005 22:33
mave wrote:
if you disagree with the G8 what you would do to combat/undermine etc them? and lets accept doing nothing is not a valid option.

The G8 is only a small, largely superficial, part of the capitalist system. What will you be doing after the summit to increase the confidence and self-organisation of working people and work towards the eventual realisation of libertarian communism?

Barry Kade
Jun 30 2005 05:06

I AM GOING TO THE G8 PROTESTS

red star Coz they are currently the highest concrete expression of the need to generalise beyond single issue campaigns to confront capitalism as a whole.

red star As far as MERE PROTEST goes, this is the most political it gets in this period. In terms of the development of political consciousness on a mass scale (as opposed to in propaganda circles) this is still (unfortunately) where 'it' is at.

red star WHEN we can move beyond MERE PROTEST, into massive politically class conscious social struggle, then summit protests will be old hat and bankrupt. But untill then, they remain an important focus.

red star But now a handfull of yesterdays ultra-left petty bourgeoise anarchist soap dodgers will reject them, as today they pose as 'class' agitators!

My dear Jack is on a quick learning curve...but I'm tired of it.

I remember Jack when he insisted on fuckin stupidly MASKING UP as a pose on every peacefull / legal demo! I remember him continually giggling about wanting to show films idolising black bloc insurrectionist shit! I remember him with a mohie, then trying to grow dreads, and thinking squats are cool! I saw him trying to absorb every ridiculous anarchist lifestylist fad. Now he thinks he is rejecting the anarchist ghetto, but has got it wrong again.

Now Jack thinks Gleneagles/Edinbrough "wont be like Genoa, more like DESII". So he has moved beyond scientific socialism to omniscience! Well I don't know what it will be like - thats why I'm going. To learn somthing. (After all, I only have 20 years experience of working class struggles, pity I can't be as wise as Jack!)

And he is still a stinky soap-dodger along with other members of CSG! They look and smell like lifestyle anarchs! John [admin edit - John "cantdocartwheels"] - you didnt wash for a year...and now have the gall to go on about hippies and activists alienating themselves from culturally conservative working class folk! Grip, go get one?!

Anyway, good luck with CSG, my dears!

red star red star red star

THE'RE AINT NO BLACK IN A RED STAR!

Mike Harman
Jun 30 2005 08:29
Barry Kade wrote:
I AM GOING TO THE G8 PROTESTS

red star Coz they are currently the highest concrete expression of the need to generalise beyond single issue campaigns to confront capitalism as a whole.

me right before Barry's post wrote:

The G8 is only a small, largely superficial, part of the capitalist system. What will you be doing after the summit to increase the confidence and self-organisation of working people and work towards the eventual realisation of libertarian communism?

I repeat, what make you think the G8 is "capitalism as a whole"?

pingtiao
Jun 30 2005 09:35
Quote:
And he is still a stinky soap-dodger along with other members of CSG! They look and smell like lifestyle anarchs! John - you didnt wash for a year...and now have the gall to go on about hippies and activists alienating themselves from culturally conservative working class folk! Grip, go get one?!

Best. Post. Ever.

I'm not going to the G8. I understand the arguments that have been put forward for going- the best one is that it is likely to be a receptive audience for anarchist and communist propaganda. I doubt that there will be any significant incursion into the Gleneagles area, and I forsee largescale arrests and beatings (and subsequent solidarity work taking a lot of time).

I attended one Dissent! meeting, and noticed that the audience was overwhelmingly liberal, as were the politics.

I hope I'm wrong, but it is alot of money, precious holiday time and effort to risk for me.

oisleep
Jun 30 2005 09:42
Barry Kade wrote:

I remember Jack when he insisted on fuckin stupidly MASKING UP as a pose on every peacefull / legal demo! I remember him continually giggling about wanting to show films idolising black bloc insurrectionist shit! I remember him with a mohie, then trying to grow dreads, and thinking squats are cool! I saw him trying to absorb every ridiculous anarchist lifestylist fad. Now he thinks he is rejecting the anarchist ghetto, but has got it wrong again.

Now Jack thinks Gleneagles/Edinbrough "wont be like Genoa, more like DESII". So he has moved beyond scientific socialism to omniscience! Well I don't know what it will be like - thats why I'm going. To learn somthing. (After all, I only have 20 years experience of working class struggles, pity I can't be as wise as Jack!)

And he is still a stinky soap-dodger along with other members of CSG! They look and smell like lifestyle anarchs! John - you didnt wash for a year...and now have the gall to go on about hippies and activists alienating themselves from culturally conservative working class folk! Grip, go get one?!

Anyway, good luck with CSG, my dears!

hehe 8)

Lazlo_Woodbine
Jun 30 2005 11:25

While I fully endorse Barry's points above, I'd agree with catch that, while elements of the summit protests have a general antagonism to capital, a lot of the propaganda focuses on this as a 'Really Important Moement' to challenge the ruling class. Well it ain't. The G8 summits are a symbolic and largely defunct networking opportunity for government and business leaders.

Let's remember that we're not Make poverty history -- we don't see the G8 as an opportunity for change -- distruption or lobbying of the G8 will not change our everyday lives one bit.

Plus it's downright embarrassing to have to explain to someone who's heard about this G8 thing why they 'should' care about the G8. Let's face it, it's not exactly a pressing concern. Basically the protests are an opportunity for us -- the anarchist/autonomist scene -- to extend and energize our activities, and I'd arue that's worthwhile.

But let's remember that it's just another bloody protest, and not waste too much time on this.

oisleep
Jun 30 2005 16:39

Barry Kade
Jun 30 2005 18:08

Really Jack. Is that the best you can do?

It would be nice if all this fad for theoretical trainspotting actually developed into some decent political arguments. Still, if all you can do is play 'I'm a better activist' then thats what you'll have to do!

Of course you have done some good solid agitation and organisation (although obviously it seems I never have).

I'm merely trying to point out that your politics is full of dramatic swings, which of course is especially acceptable in the young - but might distort your perspective.

I think that yours are not shifts in position connected with objective changes in the class struggle, but are connected to your own political journey.

To those of us who have not recently escaped the embrace of 'the contemporary anarchist scene', the G8 protests may look different.

Anyway, I'm off to all the protests and debates, to go and see. And I think it might be a little more educativefor me than a demo in your garden, or whatever you said wink

And I don't know if I will feel smug, morally superior, shit scared, bored, or irritated.

All my love.

redmist
Jun 30 2005 18:35

Mave wrote

Quote:

Maybe I got this site wrong; I thought it was for international solidarity? Maybe I make the assumption that to gain ground we have to be linked to the international movement. If I’m wrong and this forum is for English based anarchist/libertarian then accept my apologies.

About time someone brought up this issue.Workers of the world unite..etc.

And before anyone says it;no its not just 'political activists' rather than 'workers' going to the G8.In accepting this categorisation of those going/not going to the G8 protests it's interesting to note how similar this viewpoint can appear to the usual bourgeois propaganda about 'professional demonstrators'etc.I wonder how many genuinely full time 'activists' there are ie.those who do no other work to support themselves.Humm...not many I suspect.

oisleep
Jun 30 2005 18:46
Barry Kade wrote:
Really Jack. Is that the best you can do?

It would be nice if all this fad for theoretical trainspotting actually developed into some decent political arguments. Still, if all you can do is play 'I'm a better activist' then thats what you'll have to do!

Of course you have done some good solid agitation and organisation (although obviously it seems I never have).

I'm merely trying to point out that your politics is full of dramatic swings, which of course is especially acceptable in the young - but might distort your perspective.

I think that yours are not shifts in position connected with objective changes in the class struggle, but are connected to your own political journey.

To those of us who have not recently escaped the embrace of 'the contemporary anarchist scene', the G8 protests may look different.

Anyway, I'm off to all the protests and debates, to go and see. And I think it might be a little more educativefor me than a demo in your garden, or whatever you said wink

And I don't know if I will feel smug, morally superior, shit scared, bored, or irritated.

All my love.

toned that down a fair bit bazza wink

Barry Kade
Jun 30 2005 19:12

oisleep:

Quote:
toned that down a fair bit bazza

Well, coz I love Jack really.

oisleep
Jun 30 2005 19:30

i thought the original version was more appropriate you daft hippy!

thaw
Jun 30 2005 20:32

I think we should all go, have a party and meet each other to discuss next steps, whilst simultaneously protesting. (And I didn't even read the thread as it looked quite boring)

x

Vaneigemappreci...
Jul 1 2005 15:28
Quote:
I don't know more than 8 shifts ahead whether I'm working or not

your not old bill are you Tommy Ascaso?

just found out that a lot of the met are travelling up on the sunday by coach and there pretty much all going to gleneagles, just hope weve got bigger numbers than the police or else it will be embarassing

Refused
Jul 1 2005 16:52

I'm officially not going to any G8 protest events. I'm helping out in Glasgow at the Special Olympics.

Spartacus
Jul 1 2005 16:58
Vaneigemappreciationclub wrote:
just found out that a lot of the met are travelling up on the sunday by coach and there pretty much all going to gleneagles, just hope weve got bigger numbers than the police or else it will be embarassing

yeah, as if it's not embarassing enough you being stuck in a muddy field with a bunch of hippies with shit politics, they have to send a bunch of donut munching sadarses too. will you ever be able to show your face again?

Vaneigemappreci...
Jul 1 2005 19:49

better than just pissing about in brum for another week wink

Spartacus
Jul 2 2005 14:44

this is true. given the choice between being in birmingham or being in scotland, scotland wins everytime. thankfully, i'm in the beautiful cotswolds, and near enough to stroud that should i for some reason feel the desire to see hippies, i can.