would you give few quid for the comms to set up their army?

Yes
64% (9 votes)
No
21% (3 votes)
I am a fence sitter
14% (2 votes)
Total votes: 14

Posted By

JDMF
May 4 2006 13:33

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JDMF
May 4 2006 13:33

Communists in Iraq are launching a proletarian army - and doing fundraising for it.

I know voting doesn't change anything (joke) but here's a scenario:

Comrade comes to you with a collection tin and asks for money for this cause. Would you give?

Full Story: http://www.wpiraq.net/english/2006/WCPIAbroad-1May270406.htm

Quote:
All over the world, a fierce war is ongoing against workers. The producers of wealth and creators of life are not only forced into slavery living conditions, but are forced to engage in harsh struggle for survival. From America to France, from the UK to China and from the oil wells in the Persian Gulf to the gold mines in South Africa, despite the gigantic advances in all fields, today the workers have to fight on daily basis for the rights of citizenship, to defend the gains achieved fifty years ago and to secure wages enough to keep themselves and their families alive. They have to be constantly ready to fight back against the ferocious attack of the capital and capitalists.
Jacques Roux
May 4 2006 13:34

JDMF i edited out your C&p and put in a summary.

WillsWilde
May 4 2006 13:40

this sounds fishy.

OliverTwister
May 4 2006 13:44

4 yes?!

mk12
May 4 2006 13:48

To defend themselves from the 'resistance' and the US? I think that makes sense, doesn't it? confused

WillsWilde
May 4 2006 13:51
Quote:
4 yes?!

confused

OliverTwister
May 4 2006 13:56

They're stalinists with worker's councils!

Sorry.
May 4 2006 14:02

what make you say they're stalinists?

(I also think, given the degree of strain their cadre and their trade union organisations must come under, that they've every right to defend themselves and every right to expect support in doing that from outside their country)

Lazy Riser
May 4 2006 15:29

Hi

Quote:
They're stalinists with worker's councils!

They're polysexual jog bandits! I love the WCPI, and anyone who disses them is a bad person. What do you make of them, kind Devrim?

Love

LR

Lazy Riser
May 4 2006 15:33

Hi

I mean, what's not to like. They worship Frank Zappa and everything...

Love

LR

JDMF
May 4 2006 15:39
OliverTwister wrote:
4 yes?!

i am one of them, just for the record like.

red n black star

WillsWilde
May 4 2006 15:47

JDMF saidf

Quote:
i am one of them, just for the record like.

eh?

georgestapleton
May 4 2006 16:00

So am I. And they're not stalinists. They some shade of council communist, if i remember correctly.

Steven.
May 4 2006 16:12
georgestapleton wrote:
So am I. And they're not stalinists. They some shade of council communist, if i remember correctly.

I don't think that's correct, georgie...

knightrose
May 4 2006 16:21

I have a feeling that they split about a year ago. Not sure what over, not sure what the results were. I'm a little suspicious of the degree they idolise one man.

EdmontonWobbly
May 4 2006 17:51

We had this whole debate here in Edmonton on 'what the hell are they'. I think the big problem is we debated ourselves into a corner because we were trying to apply categories like 'council communist' or 'leninist' to a group with entirely it's own history and traditions. Add to this the fact that they go very far back with little relationship with european groups and you won't get very far.

Most of what I learned is from a very sweet older taxi cab driver who comes out to IWW events. For what it's worth I would say that they are not leninists, and aren't really council communists. They have a policy of Iraqi-Iranian bi-nationalism, are fiercely anti clerical and organize into a traditional party which generally doesn't seem as authoritarian as those with a lot of leninist baggage. They also have little time for any fighting for reforms and want 'revolution now', are in favour of workers councils, in some ways they could be seen as a bit like the SPGB as far as the question of revolution goes.

Where you might see them as stalinist is they are in favour of socialism in one country if you can't get it the world over. But other than that I wouldn't say that's entirely fair. Overall we get along with them fine and even have their newsletter at the free lit tables at our meetings sometimes.

Alf
May 4 2006 18:01

They are a radical form of Stalinism. The Iraqi party has set up a 'Iraqi Freedom Congress', which is a classic popular front. Its aim is to reconstitute civil society in Iraq around it. The split from this faction sounds more radical but has never put the basic politics into question. See article in current WR http//en.internationalism.org/wr/293_wpiran.html

WeTheYouth
May 4 2006 18:07

Wouldnt give them a bean.

Lazy Riser
May 4 2006 18:23

Hi

JDMF wrote:
i am one of them, just for the record like.

This is another one of those "I am gay/straight" threads.

FinnMacCool wrote:
I don't support communism.

I don’t support anti-communism.

georgestapleton wrote:
They some shade of council communist, if i remember correctly

Indeed. I equate Hekmatism with soft-left super-democracy, not very far away from afraser. afraser advocates paramilitarism as well, so it starts to make sense.

Alf wrote:
They are a radical form of Stalinism.

He might be right as well; they’ve certainly got the moustaches for it. Given Alf’s political credentials, I’m pretty sure he’d say the same thing of “Market Socialism”.

Hekmat wrote:
http://www.m-hekmat.com/en/0600en.html

The disappearance of classes and class antagonisms makes the state superfluous. In communist society the state withers away. Communist society is a society without a state. The administrative affairs of the society will be managed by the cooperation, consensus and collective decision-making of all of its members.

Ooooh. Libertarians too. They’ve a sister party in Iran, don’t ‘cha know.

Hekmat wrote:
Worker-communism is not a movement separate from the working class. It has no interests apart from those of the working class as a whole.

Working class autonomy, yeah! They had some kind of split when it came to standing candidates in the recent elections, I wonder what happened?

revol68 wrote:
I’d rather give my money to actual struggles than groups, womens centres, union movements.

Can’t fault your logic comrade. I’d look upon it as an activity more along the lines of paying to watch the boxing or betting on the winner of a bum fight.

Love

LR

alibadani
May 4 2006 18:38

Don't they believe that the revolution in Russia was defeated by Krushchevism in the late 1950's?

Lazy Riser
May 4 2006 18:49

Hi

Quote:
Don't they believe that the revolution in Russia was defeated by Krushchevism in the late 1950's?

Is that necessarily a problem? My Mum’s got rubbish politics but I’d still pay her to get armed and fuck shit up. Especially if she was in a different country. I mean where's the harm?

Love

LR

jaycee
May 4 2006 18:51

well if that is true then they would support Stalin and i would prefer to arm your mum than a bunch of Stalin worshippers.

jaycee
May 4 2006 18:52

i'm sorry if arm your mum sounds dirty and offensive, i didn't mean it to

Lazy Riser
May 4 2006 18:55

Hi

The don't worship Stalin, they worship Frank Zappa. The Internationalists should worship Frank Zappa too. By the way, is it possible to be a communist and a satanist? I mean if you can be a Christian and a communist, you've got to be able to pay homage to the dark lord whilst eliminating commodity relations.

Love

LR

georgestapleton
May 4 2006 19:32
Lazy Riser wrote:
The Internationalists should worship Frank Zappa too.

grin

EdmontonWobbly
May 4 2006 20:03

Teenage Enema Nurse for central committee!

JDMF
May 4 2006 21:02

anti-religious, pro-women, pro-worker, communist if only by name, i'll give a fiver to their army on those credentials alone!

Not to mention i have chatted with some Iraq refugees from this group and they are alright.

Lazy Riser
May 4 2006 21:06

Hi

Yeah. New page and all. In your face, anti-WCPI scum.

jaycee wrote:
i'm sorry if arm your mum sounds dirty and offensive

Ha ha. Why apologise? I might feel sullied inside, but I love a bit of it. I really do.

Love

LR

magnifico
May 4 2006 22:54
JDMF wrote:

i am one of them, just for the record like.

First he says he loves voting and how important and brilliant it is, and now he's joined the Worker-Communist Party of Iraq. roll eyes

edit - I just remembered 'the special responsibility of english speaking comrades' to try not to talk too much bollocks on the internet wink

Devrim
May 5 2006 09:38

Lazy,

My take on 'worker communism' for what it is worth is that they are leftists. Their one saving grace is that they hold an internationalist position on the war.

EdmontonWobbly wrote:

Quote:
We had this whole debate here in Edmonton on 'what the hell are they'. I think the big problem is we debated ourselves into a corner because we were trying to apply categories like 'council communist' or 'leninist' to a group with entirely it's own history and traditions. Add to this the fact that they go very far back with little relationship with european groups and you won't get very far.

I don't think that is true. I think to a large extent they were formed as an exile group, and have had significant contact with the European left. One of the groups that was involved in their formation was SUCM, who held negotiations with both the ICC, and the IBRP.

If anyone wants to check out their politics this is their website: http://www.wpiran.org/ ,or watch International TV http://www.anternasional.tv/english .

There are a few of them here, and they also have some Turkish sympathisers.

Dev