12 Rules for What podcast

A podcast about fascists, nazis, and far right, from the perspective of the left.

Support the show on Patreon.

Follow us on twitter @12rulesforwhat

E01: Introduction to the 12 Rules for What podcast

Introductory episode of the 12 Rules for What podcast on fascism, antifascism and the far right.

The Far Right is building. But it doesn't always come as a street movement marching in black. Often it’s smarter than that, often more insidious, often more inclined to infect culture than impose itself on the political, and often just plain weird. In this podcast we investigate the surreal, disconnected world of the far right, with a view to fighting it. Fighting it requires not only effective organising, but effective thinking as well. We host interviews with comrades, discussions of the main themes of far right theory and practice, and in-depth analyses of particular movements and people within it.

If you want to go a bit deeper, we recommend some reading for you:

Josephine Armistead - The Silicon Ideology
Armistead gives a summary of some attempts to analyse Fascism in the 20th Century

Umberto Eco - Eternal Fascism
Eco attempts to summarise some tendencies in common between reactionary and fascist movements

Robert Paxton - The Anatomy of Fascism
An authoritative and comprehensive account of fascist regimes and movements

E02: Fascism and Masculinity

The 12 Rules for What podcast are joined by Amy from Feminist Anti-Fascists to discuss fascism and masculinity.


Fascism has a deep relationship with masculinity. Arguably, fascism arose as an attempt to shore up traditional masculinity against the ‘slimy mire of bourgeois life’. From the creation of a ‘fascist new man’ in Italy to the misogyny of the contemporary trad movements and pick up artists, these more widespread cultural movements make fertile ground for the fascist movements which follow them. We speak with Amy from the Feminist Anti-Fascist Assembly to discuss their response to fascist masculinity and the centrality of feminism to anti-fascist work.

Plan C - Feminist Antifascism
A clear and impassioned statement on the importance of placing feminism at the heart of anti-fascist work

Klaus Theweleit - Male Fantasies
An exhilarating experimental book dealing with the rise of the Freikorps movement in German after WWI

Hypergamy: How the harebrained notions of white nationalist F. Roger Devlin took the Manosphere by storm
Introduces a foundational text of contemporary misogyny, written by white supremacist F. Roger Devlin

E03: All About Steve (Tommy Robinson)

We discuss the UK's leading far right activist, Tommy Robinson, and are joined for an interview by two members of London Antifascists.

Tommy Robinson, real name Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, is the ‘great white whale’ of the anti-fascist movement: impossible to pin down and always abe to reinvent himself. He’s been at the forefront of the EDL, has teamed up with Quilliam, founded the British version of Pegida, joined far-right outlet Rebel Media, and has now struck out as a kind of extremist citizen journalist.

In this show we talk about the propaganda of Tommy Robinson, the affective bond he has created with his audience and the impact his recent banning from social media and fundraising platforms will have on him. We also interview two activists from London Antifascists on Tommy Robinson.




E04: Neofascism

12 Rules for What discuss the concept of neo-fascism as a political label and tool of analysis.

Neo-fascism describes a set of political attempts by the far right to reform themselves in a way that is palatable to post-War European electorates. What is the use of the term for us? In this episode we discuss neo fascism, and distinguish between different fascisms - which can manifest as both movements and states.


E05: On the Christchurch Attack

Alex from 12 Rules For What makes an appearance on Dissident Island to discuss the Christchurch shooting

Alex gives an analysis of the twisted politics used to justify the cowardly New Zealand mosque attack

Donate to our patreon here: www.patreon.com/12rulesforwhat

You can hear the rest of the show here: www.dissidentisland.org/show/dissiden…-episode-230/

E06: Fascism and the Occult

!2 Rules for What discusses the historical and contemporary interactions of fascist movements and occult thinking.

A discussion on fascism and the occult with left youtuber Angie Speaks. We talk about the nazis and the occult, fascist paganism and a possible left subversion of fascist occultism.

Reference particularly made in this epsiode to Eric Kurlander's Hiter's Monsters which is highly recommended.



E07: National Action

12 Rules for What are joined by journalist James Poulter to discuss the neo-nazi extremist group National Action

National Action was one of the most extreme groups on the far right before they were banned in 2016. One of their members recently came to prominence for have plotted to kill his MP and a police officer investigating him for grooming young boys for sex in an act of 'White Jihad' . Their combination of obscene stunts, unabashed racism and their full embrace of national socialism quickly led to both notoriety and their eventual dissipation.

National Action members are still active today, and the threat of a lone wolf act of terrorism are ever acute, especially in the wake of the Christchurch terror attacks. We are joined by journalist James Poulter to discuss the history of the group, their extremist politics and how they fit into the international national socialist scene.





E08: Generation Identity

The 12 Rules for What podcast discusses the white supremacist identitarian group Generation Identity.

Generation Identity is a pan-European movement on the far right. They use a seemingly neutral ('remigration' and 'the great replacement') as a code for what they really want: a white ethnostate across Europe and the forced deportation of people of colour. Their European chapters have been involved in some eye-catching stunts, yet their UK grouping hasn't really caught on.

In the studio, we are joined by journalist James Poulter and trade union activist and antifascist Tommy to discuss why Generation Identity has floundered, their likelihood for success, and how we can oppose their genocidal politics.

E09: The National Front in the 1970s

12 Rules for What is joined by historian Dave Renton to discuss the National Front in the 1970s (UK).

The National Front was the most prominent group on the UK far right in the 1970s. We discuss their history and politics through the 70s and chart their transformations, from their rejection of street politics to their later marches, and from their initial uneasy coalition of far-right forces to their ultimate implosion. How did anti-fascist action lead to their collapse? What lessons are to be learned from their successes now?

For further reading, we recommend David Renton's book Never Again: Rock Against Racism and the Anti-Nazi League 1976-1982

E10: Strategic Antifascism with Mark Bray

12 Rules for What is joined by historian and activist Mark Bray to discuss his book, Antifa: the antifascist handbook.

Mark Bray is a political organizer and historian of human rights, terrorism, and political radicalism in Modern Europe. He's also the author of the excellent 'Antifa' from 2017, and he came into the studio to talk about it and antifascism with us. Also in this episode, we have a discussion about strategic antifascism, the London Anti-Fascist Assembly (LAFA) and our recent article in Freedom News

E11: The Brexit Party and UKIP

12 Rules for What discusses the prospects of the Brexit Party and UKIP in ligjht of the European elections.

The Brexit Party are the breakout party of the European elections. Unlike rival upstarts Change UK, Farage's ragtag grouping surged to first place and are set to agitate for Brexit within the European Parliament.

We discuss the Brexit Party's prospects going forward, and examine how Farage's old party, UKIP, have fared after a dismal showing in the elections.

E12: Against Ecofascism with the Green Anticapitalist Front

12 Rules for What are joined by the Green Anticapitalist Front to discuss Ecofascism.

Ecofascism is an essential part of how the far right is going to change over the next few decades. It's the cynical belief that the coming climate breakdown can be used by the far right to harden borders, further police migration, and blame non-white people. It rests on dodgy science, bad arguments, and racial hatred. It needs to be urgently confronted as a tendency, even though it doesn't yet have a group who express it explicitly.

From Identity Evropa's (American Identity Movement)campaign for the deportation of migrants to defend the environment to Marine Le Pen's abandonment of climate science denial, Ecofascism is an increasingly important and prominent part of the far right, and will only become more so as the climate crisis deepens.






E13: Lies Damned Lies and Andy Ngo

12 Rules for What discuss the fake concrete milkshaking of fake journalist Andy Ngo on the 29th of Jun 2019 in Portland Oregon and discuss how antifascists can counter the tactic of disinformation from the far right.

At the end of June the 'western chauvinist' far right fraternity the Proud Boys, demonstrated in Portland and antifascists mobilised to oppse them.

Andy Ngo, a 'journalist' who has consistently sided with the far right, was milkshaked by antifascists.

We clear up some of the disinformation surrounding the events, talk about their wider significance, and chat about how antifascists can stop the spread of disinformation and false rumours.

Further readings:




E14: Alt Right Radicalisation with Emerican Johnson

12 Rules for WHAT discuss the processes of radicalisation developed by the alt right and interview youtuber Emercian Johnson on edgy memes and stoccastic terrorism.

What are the basic emotions that the far right draws on? How does the internet produce Nazis? What happened to the cat memes? We talk to Emerican Johnson of the youtube channel Non-compete to find out.

In this episode, we discuss online radicalisation, and the pewdiepipeline - Emerican Johnson's framework for thinking about the way people are drawn to the far right through edgy memes and joke. Also in this episode, we read from the deradicalisation stories we were sent by listeners.

Video on the PewDiePipeline: www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnmRYRRDbuw

Video on Masculinity: www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjQ2B5cQ_gs

Data and Society report on the Alternative Influence Network datasociety.net/output/alternative-influence/

Politigram: joshuacitarella.com/_pdf/Politigram…_2018_short.pdf


E15: Tommy Robinson's career in 'journalism'

12 Rules for What are joined by journalist James Poulter to discuss far right political activist Tommy Robinson's career in fake journalism and the propects for the Free Tommy campaignin 2019.

As Tommy Robinson was sent to prison for the second time for commiting contempt of court he wore a shirt enblazoned with the words 'Convicted of Journalism'. His career as a fake journalist fits into a wider trend of far right and fascist propagandists taking on the mantle of journalist to provide cover for their hateful politics.

We are joined by actual journalist James Poulter, who has extensively covered Tommy Robinson, to discuss how Robinson came to style himself a citizen journalist, the make up of the far right coalition that coalacesed around Robinson in 2017-18 and the prospects for the Free Tommy movement in 2019.

Danny Tommo failed kidnapper: www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/crime/bun…empt-1-7501996

Rebel media meltdown: nationalpost.com/news/canada/poli…ltdown-continues

E16: For Green Antifascism

12 Rules for What return for part 2 of our investigation into ecofascism.

Ecofascism exists at the moment as a collection of memes and disperate thoughts, but it had the potential to be an important part of the future far right. We discuss how to fight it, and how we can build a green antifascism.

E17: The Return of Free Tommy w/ LAFA and FAF

12 Rules for What are joined by activists involved in the latest counter protests to the Free Tommy demonstrations.

The 3rd and the 24th August 2019 saw the return of the Free Tommy movement to London - much bedraggled, smaller than before, and with anti-fascists turning out to stop them.

In this episode, we sit down with organisers from the London Anti-fascist Assembly and Feminist Anti-fascist Assembly to discuss the two demonstrations, the antifascist response, and the complex and the prospects for anti-fascism in London.

E18: The New Authoritarians w/ Dave Renton

!2 Rules for WHAT talk to author Dave Renton about his latest book, The New Authoritarians: Convergence on the Right.

Blurb for the book:

All across the world, right-wing politics is shifting, with conservative and hard-right proponents allying. From Donald Trump to Marine Le Pen, these figureheads agree on issues that would have been considered extreme to previous generations, causing many to label them as fascists.

But is this too simplistic? If they are not fascists, what are their politics?

In The New Authoritarians, David Renton approaches the problem from a new perspective. He identifies an emergent and deeply troubling form of right-wing radicalism, at once more moderate than classical fascism in its political strategy, yet indulgent of the racism of its most extreme components. In country after country, under the clouds of economic austerity and post-9/11 Islamophobia, the right is converging and strengthening. To understand why is the first step to stopping them.

E19: The Proscription of National Action and the Trouble with State Antifascism

12 Rules for WHAT discuss the effects of the proscription of National Action.

12 Rules for WHAT has written an afterword to The Trouble with National Action, a new book by Mark Hayes out from Freedom Press. National Action was proscribed by the UK government in December 2016. We discuss the meaning of proscription, its effects on the National Action and the extreme right in the UK, and put the proscription into the history of state anti-fascism.

E20: The 43 Group w/ Daniel Sonabend

12 Rules for WHAT sit down with author and historian Dan Sonabend to discuss his new book about the 43 Group and their legacy.

It might be difficult to imagine fascists had any pull in post WW2 Britain. Yet, when Jewish ex-servicemen returned home they found fascist activity springing up all over London, and especially in the East End.

Some of those ex servicemen decided to do something about it. Joining with other Londoners - Jews, gentiles, men and women - they built a street fighting organisation that physically disrupted fascist activity. They named their new organisation the 43 Group.

E21: The UK Election and the Far Right

The UK election has come and gone and left us with the Conservatives in power with a massive majority for at least the next five years. There are a lot of podcasts out there dissecting the election result, and we are not here to do that.

Instead we will talk about how the far right did in the election, discussed how they will fare in the next five years, look at some of the more authoritarian policies in the Tory manifesto and consider the question of whether Boris Johnson is fascist (spoiler: he is not.)

12 Rules For WHAT · 21 - The UK Election And The Far Right

E22: Red Gyms w/ Reading Red Corner

For this episode of 12 Rules for WHAT Alex headed to Reading to interview Reading Red Corner, a red gym, martial arts club and solidarity project.

The right wing government of Boris Johnson gives space to new far right and fascist movements. To meet this potential threat the left needs to build a base that encompasses community self defence and solidarity. Notable about Reading Red Corner is their commitment to food solidarity and engagement with community projects across Reading.

12 Rules For WHAT · 22 - Red Gyms w/ Reading Red Corner

E23: The Base

In mid January the latest of many US fascist paramilitary groups were thrust into the mainstream when a group of three men from the neo nazi organisation The Base, were arrested by the FBI on their way to a VIrginia gun rights rally on gun charges.

We give a a run down about The Base and how they organise online in a manner typical of contemporary fascists, utilising multiple platforms to avoid censorship and control, but also how it organises real-world 'hate camps' where members meet up in person to learn combat skills.

Have a listen to the episode and make sure to share it around!

12 Rules For WHAT · 23 - The Base

E24: Coronavirus

In which we take a break from our writing to talk about the topic on everyone's minds at the moment, the ongoing global coronavirus pandemic - and how fascists are responding to it.

We discuss the coronavirus pandemic as a form of environmental crisis, assess the far right response in its authoritarian and conspiritoiral aspects and touch on how things are playing out in Hungary at the UK. We even have a bit of anti-fascism at the end.

Coronavirus is with us for the long term, it will shape politics for years to come. We need to be prepared for that, and work out our strategies for the months to come.

12 Rules For WHAT · 24 - Coronavirus

E26: Post Internet Far Right (London Anarchist Bookfair 2020)

A special episode for the London Anarchist Bookfair 2020!

We discuss our first book, coming out soon with Dog Section Press and talk about other stuff like anti-fascist research, far right influencers and more!

12 Rules For WHAT · 26 - Post-Internet Far Right (London Anarchist Bookfair 2020)

E27: Turkish Fascism w/ Elif and Nik

We are joined by Elif from Kurdish Assembly UK and Nik, an internationalist in the Kurdish freedom struggle to discuss the history and continued relevance of Turkish fascism.

We talk about the origins of the Turkish state, the interactions of the Kemalist state with fascism and Nazism, the make up of the contemporary far right in Turkey and the 2019 invasion of Northern Syria.

Links for further reading/ information:


12 Rules For WHAT · 27 - Turkish Fascism w/ Elif And Nik

E28: Far Right Environmentalism w/ Expert Guest

For a Christmas episode we sit down with an expert guest for a wide ranging discusion on the far right and the environment.

This should be seen as a companion episode to our previous shows on ecofascism and green anti-fascism. See you in the new year and happy holidays!

For an even more comprehensive introduction to the far right and the environment see here:


12 Rules For WHAT · 28 - Far-Right Environmentalism w/ Expert Guest(Christmas Special!)

E29: Proud Boys and the White Ethnostate w/ Alexandra Stern

Sam sits down with historian Professor Alexandra Minna Stern to discuss her 2019 book Proud Boys and the White Ethnostate, an intellectual history of the core ideas of the alt right.

The interview covers a lot of ground and includes a periodisation of the far right, the idea of a white ethnostate, changes and continuities in the category of whiteness and the prospects of the far right in a post Trump world.

You can find out more about the book here:


Professor Stern is the Carroll Smith-Rosenberg Collegiate Professor in the Department of American Culture at the University of Michigan. She is also the author of the award winning Eugenics Nation: Faults and Frontiers of Better Breeding in Modern America.

12 Rules For WHAT · 29 - Proud Boys And The White Ethnostate w/ Alexandra Stern

E30: Riot at the US Capitol

This week we witnessed unprecedented scenes when thousands of of far right Trump supporters, boogoloos and believers in the Qanon conspiracy stormed the US Capitol, supposedly one of the most secure location in the world, in order to halt the certificaiton of electoral college ballots and stop a Biden presidency.

We discuss what happened, how we got to this point, where Qanon goes next as a movement, the deplatforming of Trump, and the contraditions that are developing within the right.

Other podcasts worth listening to:

Our buddies at the Channel Zero Network recorded an excellent roundtable about what happened


Marooncast (also part of CZN)has an excellent episode which you can find here:



12 Rules For WHAT · 30 - Riot at the US Capitol

E31: Posthuman Fascism w/ Samir Gandesha

Samir sits down with author and academic Samir Gandesha for a wide ranging interview about Indigenous struggles against pipelines, the theory of endocolonialism, fascist resentment and more!

Samir Gandesha is an Associate Professor in the Department of the Humanities and the Director of the Institute for the Humanities at Simon Fraser University. He is also the editor of a new collection of essays on 'Spectres of Fascism', which is available from Pluto: www.plutobooks.com/9780745340647/s…res-of-fascism/

In this show we start from a discussion of his essay Posthuman Fascism, available here: lareviewofbooks.org/article/posthuman-fascism

BELLA CIAO REMIX: www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOOt1DRWSo4

For an anti-fascist music playlist, see here:

You can also get information on how to see Samir in discussion with Jodi Dean, Dominiek Hoens, and Klaas Tindemans here:


And watch another interview with him here: bc.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=2119735

12 Rules For WHAT · 31 - Posthuman Fascism w/ Samir Gandesha

E32: Forty Ways to Fight Fascism w/ Spencer Sunshine

We talk to author and activist Spencer Sunshine to discuss his latest text 40 Ways to Fight Fascism, the far right after Trump, anti-fascism in the US, the history behind James Mason's SEIGE and more!

Read 40 Ways to Fight Fascism here:


Find out more about Spencer's work here:


12 Rules For WHAT · 32 - Forty Ways to Fight Fascism w/ Spencer Sunshine

E33: Migrant Solidarity and the far right w/ Channel Rescue

Alex talks to Simon from Channel Rescue about the organisation's humanitarian work, the hostile environment, migrant solidarity, far right activism around Napier Barracks and Penally Camp, the psychogeography of Dover and what anti-fascists should be doing!

Find out more about Channel Rescue's work here:


12 Rules For WHAT · 33 - Migrant solidarity and the far right w/ Channel Rescue

E34: Stuart Christie's Life and Legacy w/ The Stuart Christie Memorial Archive

Jess Thorne joins us to discuss the life and passing of Stuart Christie, one of the UK's most famous anarchists who is perhaps best known for participating in a plot to assasinate Franco in 1964.

We also discuss the radical prisoner support group which Christie refounded, the memorial archive and the value of past struggles in informing our politics today.

Jess’s obituary of Christie: maydayrooms.org/stuart_christie/

You can give money to the archive fundraiser here:


12 Rules For WHAT · 34 - Stuart Christie's Life and Legacy w/ The Stuart Christie Memorial Archive

E35: On the Draconian Policing Bill

Sam and Alex discuss the new Policing Bill in the UK and what it means for anti-fascism.

For more information follow @netpol and visit netpol.org

You can support this show at www.patreon.com/12rulesforwhat where we now have premium episodes going up

12 Rules For WHAT · 35 - On The Draconian Policing Bill

E36: Anti-fascist RPGs and Nerd Culture w/ Postcards from Cable Street

We talk to three creators of Postcards from Cable street, a new anti-fascist RPG zine, about nerd culture, creating anti-fascist RPGs, and fighting back against reactionary elements in nerd culture.

We also run through their favourite sections of the zine!

Follow them at @cable_from for more information about the project!

12 Rules For WHAT · 36 - Anti-fascist RPGs and Nerd Cultures w/ Postcards From Cable Street

E37: Tory Authoritarianism and Kill the Bill w/ Dave Renton

We are joined by historian, writer and lefty lawyer Dave Renton to go in depth on the policing bill and Tory authoritarianism.

We discuss the nature of authoritarianism from the centre, consider why a 'police state' framing is not the way and ask if we might want to appeal to 'libertarian' Tory back bench MPs.

We also briefly discuss our reviews of Dave's last book Fascism: History and Theory, which appeared in ROAR magazine and the Ecologist.

Get Fascism here: www.plutobooks.com/9781786806512/fascism/

Pre order Dave's upcoming book on no platform here: www.routledge.com/No-Free-Speech-f…ok/9780367720629

See our reviews of Fascism here:



12 Rules For WHAT · 37 - Tory Authoritarianism and Kill the Bill w/ Dave Renton

E38: On Conspirituality w/ Matthew Remski

Sam talks to Matthew Remski about his research into conspirituality.

Conspirituality combines predominantly masculine conspiracy culture with predominantly feminine new age mysticism into a heady style of politics. Why has QAnon managed to mobilise so many people? Why are there suddenly so many right-wing wellness advocates? And where next now Trump's shining star has entered its waning phase?

You can find out more about the Conspirituality project here: conspirituality.net/

12 Rules For WHAT · 38 - On Conspirituality W/ Matthew Remski

E39: QAnon and anti-lockdown in the UK

We talk to QAnon researcher Annie Kelly about how QAnon has developed in the UK.

We discuss the strange variances of UK QAnon, the demographics of the anti-lockdown protests, the appeal of #savethechildren framing and ask how we can situate QAnon in a fast changing political landscape.

Annie Kelly is a researcher of antifeminist and far right movements and is a regular contributor to the Qanon Anonymous podcast.

12 Rules For WHAT · 39 - QAnon And Anti - Lockdown In the UK w/ Annie Kelly

E40: Online radicalisation and memes w/ Joshua Citarella

12 Rules for WHAT sit down with Joshua Citarella to discuss his research into online radicalisation, the far right's own personal hamster wheels, and the question of the final meme of all.

12 Rules For WHAT · 40 - Online radicalisation and memes w/ Joshua Citarella

E41: The History of Nazi Ecologism W/ Peter Staudenmaier

Sam goes through the history of Nazi ecologism with its most prominent historians: Peter Staudenmaier.

Peter Staudenmaier is Associate Professor of History. His work centers on Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, environmental history, and the history of racial thought.

Read more from Peter on fascist ecology here:


12 Rules For WHAT · 41 - The History of Nazi Ecologism W/ Peter Staudenmaier

E42: White Skin, Black Fuel w/ Andreas Malm And Lise Benoist

Alex and Sam talk with two members of the Zetkin Collective, Andreas Malm and Lise Benoist about their new book, White Skin Black Fuel.

We discuss Rassemblement national's ecological turn in France, how far right acceptance of the climate crisis is just denial in another form, the attachement of the far right to blocks of capital and the political character of national landscapes.

White Skin, Black Fuel is the new book from the Zetkin Collective. It delves into the intersection of the far right and the climate crisis.

"In the first study of the far right’s role in the climate crisis, White Skin, Black Fuel presents an eye-opening sweep of a novel political constellation, revealing its deep historical roots. Fossil-fuelled technologies were born steeped in racism. No one loved them more passionately than the classical fascists. Now right-wing forces have risen to the surface, some professing to have the solution—closing borders to save the nation as the climate breaks down.

Epic and riveting, White Skin, Black Fuel traces a future of political fronts that can only heat up."


12 Rules For WHAT · 42 - White Skin, Black Fuel w/ Andreas Malm And Lise Benoist

E43: Facts Don't Care About Your (fascist) Feelings

In this episode we talk about feelings, not our own feelings but fascist ones.

We ask what kind of feelings drive the far right online, how do they contribute to process of radicalisation and is radicalisation a good framing anyway? We also discuss fascism's relationship to compulsive consumption, specifically porn and indulge a tiny bit of far left, far right equivocation before reaffirming that the far right is still bad actually!

This episode is based on the second chapter of our upcoming book with Dog Section Press, Post Internet Far Right.

You can pre order your copy of PIFR here: www.crowdfunder.co.uk/post-internet-far-right

12 Rules For WHAT · 43 - Facts Don't Care About Your (fascist) Feelings