A Heartfelt Seasons Greetings from a Long Gone Comrade Who Sincerely Wishes You All Well

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Chilli Sauce's picture
Chilli Sauce
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Jan 2 2016 20:33
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I used the fascists as an example of people I don't expect to change but that I do want to be vocal against. That is hardly accusing people of being as bad as fascists for eating meat, is it.

If that's not what you meant, fair enough, but this does read as if you're "so at odds" with the pro-meat folks on libcom as to respond to them in the same way you intend to respond to fascists:

Quote:
I'll be going to Dover on the 30th to demonstrate my total revulsion at the views of the fascists... I dare say that like has happened on Libcom I will become abusive with those that I am so at odds with.

And even if that's not what you meant, it does seem pretty grandstandy to bring up fascists as if they're somehow relevant to this conversation.

Anyway, I sort of feel like you ignored the rest of my post and while I think there's a bit of you sort of responding to arguments that others on this thread haven't actually made, the arguments I made in my post aren't addressed by talking about protein or B12 or taste.

Fleur
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Jan 2 2016 20:39
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Fleur - I will treat your vile accusation with the absolute contempt that it deserves. Save your steel toecaps for some other poor bastard.

So what the fuck did you mean then? You made the analogy, make some sense of it. It sounds like the usual airheaded claptrap which comes out of the fuckwits at PETA, comparing farming to rape.
And nice one, coming from you, a wannabe bootboy who is always fantasizing about people "having the shit kicked out of them."

And fwiw, chickens are not my comrades. I'm very picky about my friends and comrades and a lot of people don't make that cut.

Scallywag
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Jan 2 2016 20:43

Lol webby it wasn't even me who said you had 'weird tastes in food', I did say that it would be considerably harder for me to gain weight if I could only eat veg, but it wasn't me either who made any arguments about vegan diets being inadequate/not providing you with all needed nutrition, I know it can be done.

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Noah Fence
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Jan 2 2016 21:04
Scallywag wrote:
Lol webby it wasn't even me who said you had 'weird tastes in food', I did say that it would be considerably harder for me to gain weight if I could only eat veg, but it wasn't me either who made any arguments about vegan diets being inadequate/not providing you with all needed nutrition, I know it can be done.

Sorry mate, I obviously meant RG. I did actually offer props to you at the beginning of my post.

Scallywag
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Jan 2 2016 21:07
Webby wrote:
Scallywag wrote:
Lol webby it wasn't even me who said you had 'weird tastes in food', I did say that it would be considerably harder for me to gain weight if I could only eat veg, but it wasn't me either who made any arguments about vegan diets being inadequate/not providing you with all needed nutrition, I know it can be done.

Sorry mate, I obviously meant RG. I did actually offer props to you at the beginning of my post.

no probs, I get that now, but it confused me a bit lol

radicalgraffiti
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Jan 2 2016 21:14
Webby wrote:
Scallywag wrote:
Lol webby it wasn't even me who said you had 'weird tastes in food', I did say that it would be considerably harder for me to gain weight if I could only eat veg, but it wasn't me either who made any arguments about vegan diets being inadequate/not providing you with all needed nutrition, I know it can be done.

Sorry mate, I obviously meant RG. I did actually offer props to you at the beginning of my post.

i#'m not seeing a response to me, did you imagin something that was easer to respond to perhaps?

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Noah Fence
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Jan 2 2016 21:57
radicalgraffiti wrote:
Webby wrote:
Scallywag wrote:
Lol webby it wasn't even me who said you had 'weird tastes in food', I did say that it would be considerably harder for me to gain weight if I could only eat veg, but it wasn't me either who made any arguments about vegan diets being inadequate/not providing you with all needed nutrition, I know it can be done.

Sorry mate, I obviously meant RG. I did actually offer props to you at the beginning of my post.

i#'m not seeing a response to me, did you imagin something that was easer to respond to perhaps?

I've edited your name in and no, I didn't see anything easier to respond to - there is nothing on this planet easier to respond to on this earth when it comes to this topic you daft bastard!

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Noah Fence
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Jan 2 2016 22:05
Chilli Sauce wrote:
Quote:
I used the fascists as an example of people I don't expect to change but that I do want to be vocal against. That is hardly accusing people of being as bad as fascists for eating meat, is it.

If that's not what you meant, fair enough, but this does read as if you're "so at odds" with the pro-meat folks on libcom as to respond to them in the same way you intend to respond to fascists:

Quote:
I'll be going to Dover on the 30th to demonstrate my total revulsion at the views of the fascists... I dare say that like has happened on Libcom I will become abusive with those that I am so at odds with.

And even if that's not what you meant, it does seem pretty grandstandy to bring up fascists as if they're somehow relevant to this conversation.

Anyway, I sort of feel like you ignored the rest of my post and while I think there's a bit of you sort of responding to arguments that others on this thread haven't actually made, the arguments I made in my post aren't addressed by talking about protein or B12 or taste.

Chilli - I realise I was an antagonist twat in my first two posts on this thread. I tried sincerely after that but I now, once again realise that I'm an idiot for getting involved here. Complete waste of time. So I'm not going to bother answering your questions or posting on this thread anymore and spend time fending off a highly skilled bully or a cringemakingly inept one.

Fleur
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Jan 2 2016 22:24

Bully. Lol. Pot. Kettle. Black.
You've been verbally abusive, antagonistic, spoiling for a fight and behaving like a persecuted victim when someone responds to it. Par for the course for the last year, where you have behaved like an utter ass. You have to be especially clueless, or antagonistic, to make allusions to fascists and child rapists and not expect a response.
And you can go to hell Webby. You thought it was totally OK to disclose personal email correspondence to make a point in a thread, where you were having another temper tantrum. I wouldn't trust you to water a plant. You're great at talking the talk, shouting your 2 cents worth on the trigger warning thread, where it doesn't cross your mind to put one on the torture porn you like to post.
UV isn't the only poster who's ceased posting here. I've talked to a number of others, fed up of the forums being total asshole magnets.

factvalue
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Jan 2 2016 22:43

RG:

Quote:
and i'm saying that if you believe this to be true then its up to you to proved the evidence because its vary difficult to prove a negative. i'm not sure what the purpose of your agument here is? do you genuinely believe that people should be able to assert any bullshit they want and then its up to other people to prove it wrong?

Jeff:

Quote:
A lot of this primitive 'honouring' is noble savage romanticism based either on superstitions or made up. I'm not sure we have that much to learn from our primitive ancestors and it requires being very selective so I think on the whole the fact that they did something is far from a ringing endorsement of it.

A sham coherence has been imposed upon the material of each member of this sequence of very loose assertions through the reliance upon neither logic nor evidence but upon a commonly accepted and very shop worn common framework. These are all positive claims, which of course doesn't guarantee that they are any easier to prove than a negative, and thus far no evidence has been produced for them, which doesn't necessarily mean that they're true mind you, or perhaps you're saying that since I have provided no evidence for my claims then you/Jeff know more about what I'm saying than I do, who knows?.. Whatever the case may be, that once again was my point, so to speak. Back to you again.

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Chilli Sauce
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Jan 2 2016 23:10

Throwing in my two cents un-asked, but just to say that, sure, Webby's been a bit, uh, recalcitrant on this issue, but he is a good guy on a personal level and he's one of the few people on libcom who've I seen make truly heartfelt apologies. It would be a shame to see him - or anyone who's annoyed with him - stop posting on libcom.

That said, Webby, the fash thing, probably let that one go. The Jimmy Saville thing, the posting of the personal information (although did I somehow miss that one?), maybe one of those apologies might be in order...

radicalgraffiti
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Jan 2 2016 23:32
Webby wrote:
radicalgraffiti wrote:
Webby wrote:
Scallywag wrote:
Lol webby it wasn't even me who said you had 'weird tastes in food', I did say that it would be considerably harder for me to gain weight if I could only eat veg, but it wasn't me either who made any arguments about vegan diets being inadequate/not providing you with all needed nutrition, I know it can be done.

Sorry mate, I obviously meant RG. I did actually offer props to you at the beginning of my post.

i#'m not seeing a response to me, did you imagin something that was easer to respond to perhaps?

I've edited your name in and no, I didn't see anything easier to respond to - there is nothing on this planet easier to respond to on this earth when it comes to this topic you daft bastard!

this

Webby wrote:
Radical Graffiti - hahahahahaha! Fucking hell, do your research before you start posting or you're gonna look like a right fucking numpty. Oops, too late!
Ah, the good old protein argument, what a load of old tosh. I am on a HIGH PROTEIN regime at the moment due to liver failure, under the supervision of an NHS dietician. It's a piece of piss.
B12. Ever heard of yeast extract or other derived products?
But here is the dumbest of all - I clearly have weird tastes in food! Of all the drivel I've seen posted on this topic by the likes of yourself, this tops the fucking lot. What does it even mean? So weird food includes bread, pasta, fruit, vegetables, soup, potatoes( you know, the things that the weirdest of all foods, fries and chips are made of). How about peanut butter or jam? My gran used to like jam, what a fucking freak she must have been! Oh, and of course takeaway food like chinese, noodles, curry, pizza. Weird shit dude.

I could dismantle your arguments(lol) and barely engage a braincell, so utterly devoid of any basis are they but that would be like shooting fish in a barrel, and as a liberal, lifestylist hippy I clearly would never do such a thing as kill da poor little fishy wishies would I?

isn't a response to me

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Jan 2 2016 23:53

Yeah, I did do that email thing but the context in which it was done and the actual information, or rather complete lack of, didn't seem at all damaging especially as I was using it to make a point about how Fleur's behaviour had upset me precisely because we had been on very good terms and confided in each other. Bad form though clearly and I am sorry for it.
As for the Jimmy Saville comment, if anyone is daft enough to believe, or determined enough to do a character assassination on me by suggesting that I was comparing the crimes of Saville to those of non vegans that's their problem, not mine. FFS, it's clear as day that I was using an example as a way to demonstrate a principle. Admittedly it had a fairly hefty amount of topspin on it but that just made it more clear that I wasn't speaking literally.

Anyhow, thanks for your kind words but I don't think there is any point to this thread. Same old, same old;

Topic comes up, I wade in like a bull in a china shop, people chat shit about protein and helping people before animals as if the two are mutually exclusive, I insult people with sardonic humour, in desperation they come out with hilariously ill informed opinions, I make fun of them were n a fairly unkind to way as I have here with RG and the few people that engage in completely good faith are pushed to the back. Fucking pointless. I still think that many posters need to get torn a new one but it doesn't do any good whatsoever. I can't in all honesty say I'm sorry or that I regret what I've posted here, I stand solidly by it but I do regret posting at all.

radicalgraffiti
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Jan 3 2016 00:32
Webby wrote:
I insult people with sardonic humour, in desperation they come out with hilariously ill informed opinions, I make fun of them were n a fairly unkind to way as I have here with RG and the few people that engage in completely good faith are pushed to the back..

i don't know what you think your' making fun of but it aint me, how about you start here if your going to"respond" to me

radicalgraffiti wrote:
Webby wrote:
The idea RG proposed that it's alright for me coz I happen to like vegan food is typical of this - making daft assumptions to excuse yourself doesn't make you right.

excuse myself for what?

Fleur
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Jan 3 2016 00:39

Referring to private correspondence - about our kids, no less - just to make a point in a stupid fucking forum was scummy behaviour, no matter how obtuse you feel it was and was a gross violation of privacy and trust. It's also guaranteed that there will be no more private correspondence.

It is also gross stupidity if you think that making a comment that Jimmy Savile found consensual sex boring, in the next sentence to saying that non- vegans find vegan food boring, is not going to be construed as something offensive. I suppose the best thing I can think of that is that you're guilty of stupid hyperbole but it was as offensive as fuck. It's exactly this sort of crap which gives vegans a bad name and it's certainly unlikely to persuade anyone to come over to your point of view.

Given that you've been throwing around insults and fantasizing about giving us pus-guzzlers a good kicking, it's hard to work out how I'm supposed to find your sardonic humour very funny. Animal rights seems to be the only fucking thing you want to talk about, yet whenever anyone tries to discuss it and has another point of view, you shoot it down, not even able to countenance a different point of view and exhibiting a total lack of empathy for anyone else. What about some of that humility you're forever going on about.

Seriously, fuck you Webby.

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Jan 3 2016 01:28

I have a large carton of popcorn (coated in soya marg), tofu jerky, pretzels and some beers, settle down and read this bad boy thread.

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Mr. Jolly
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Jan 3 2016 01:31

...

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ultraviolet
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Jan 3 2016 15:45

Comrades,

Thank you to everyone who gave me a kind welcome back to the forums. That felt nice.

Auld-bod: I'm happy to hear you're almost veggie. Maybe next year this time you can tell us you are almost vegan. Thank you for caring enough about our fellow earthlings to walk in the right direction.

E v e r y o n e ... I dare you to watch this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0czs_OtqrLA
and not get that there is something horribly wrong with what we as a species are doing to animals?
To not get that even the most "humane" murders (oops, I mean "killings" -- the m-word is only for the one worthy species on this planet) is a tragedy and injustice?* Especially when there's no fucking reason for it beyond that hey, it tastes good! Sorry someone had to suffer and die for my tastebuds! Pass the salt?

There is no violence or anything like that in the video. It's a love story! Of friendship.
And it's less than three minutes long.

I give this video the title: Who are you eating?

Only humans have enough intelligence to love, you say? But would you deny that a human baby or toddler loves their parents -- stupid as we are at that age? Are feelings only relevant for those capable of rational intelligence? The capacity to enjoy life, and the owing of respect for someone's?

* There are very rare circumstances when taking their lives is more or less necessary -- like for the Inuit near the arctic. But even then there's something tragic in those deaths, even if no injustice.

The discussions on this topic are so often about whether people should be vegan now. An important discussion, but let's shift focus for a moment. For the animals that we today use and abuse and kill (not the m-word, let's not get EXTREME) for our food...

What do you think it should be like for them in a future anarchist society?
What kind of lives do they deserve?
What do we as humans owe them?
Is there any good reason to take their lives away for food, other than in the rarest of circumstances?

Here's an embedding of the same video:

Hope your 2016 is off to a good start... and that at the very least you aren't living in a cage or a pen so small it hurts your body and agonizes your mind... or some other excruciating circumstance that makes literally every minute of your life some sort of hell... so that the best day of your life is the day you die.

radicalgraffiti
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Jan 3 2016 17:20

Hi UV, you started this thread being passive aggressive and i see you mean to carry on that way.

the thing with videos like that is everyone knows that the people making them put in all the worst stuff they can find.

i don't know about elsewhere but in the uk keeping animals in cages to small for them to turn around is not the norm, it might actually be illegal, lots of animals can be see in fields if you go to the countryside, of cause its not particularly nice to keep animals confined and kill them for food, but when your entire argument consists of the worst stuff you can find anywhere in the world then your not arguing for people to stop using animals for food, your arguing for rules on how they are treated. if you want to argue that animals should never be used in food production you need to take the best case scenario and show its still unacceptable

factvalue
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Jan 3 2016 17:32

I don't think this hand-waving anecdotal style is conducive to reasoned debate rg, and has been shown in this thread to be counterproductive. Can you at least provide some factual evidence for what you're saying?

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Mr. Jolly
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Jan 3 2016 17:42

In our techno utopian future we will all be eating real meat constructed from stem cells grown in vats manipulated to create the correct taste and texture, proper milk and cheese from genetically modified yeast or something.

Simple

radicalgraffiti
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Jan 3 2016 17:39
Scallywag wrote:
radicalgraffiti wrote:
this is a terrible idea, its possible food production could be more local in some cases than now, but the idea that producing things locally is inherently better is a liberal disease

Why is it liberal?

Producing local food means that it can be done sustainably where the people who produce the food, use it and recycle nutrients to the soil, instead of it being produced somewhere else probably intensively only for most of it not to reach local people but be transported half way across the world and accumulate waste.

why does the proximity of the production of food to the consumers of the food correlate with sustainability? it doesn't, the idea that it does comes from liberal ideology, support your local farmers and all that crap.
Of cause your right that the literal crap should be reused to fertilise crops, if with modern technology we can transport food from a place then we can certainly transport shit back.

Not that its bad to grow food as close to where its consumed as possible is a bad thing, it just has no inherit virtue.

How ever, in the future with hydroponics and and growing indoors under artificial lights growing food closer to where its used will probably become more practical

radicalgraffiti
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Jan 3 2016 17:43
factvalue wrote:
I don't think this hand-waving anecdotal style is conducive to reasoned debate rg, and has been shown in this thread to be counterproductive. Can you at least provide some factual evidence for what you're saying?

i don't find your posts conducive to reasoned debate, half the time i have trouble figuring out what your trying to say or who its aimed at.

what is it your lacking evidence for?

Scallywag
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Jan 3 2016 17:43

I think there is a big difference between concern for animal welfare (which is totally valid in my view) and a perspective I earlier called biocentric which views all individual organisms as being of equal worth and thus deserving of the same rights. The later I think that has a lot of problems some of which have been brought up in this thread, but basically I think it has potential to be misanthropic, it views a way in which humans have (and still rely on in some places) for supporting themselves as fundamentally immoral as Chili said back in #60 and lastly I just think it is absurd that all individual organisms have the same intrinsic worth to each other, whether that's an insect, a virus, a cow, chicken, fish, dog or human. Anyway I think this thread has passed boring now, and given the antagonism its caused between members it should probably just die.

radicalgraffiti
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Jan 3 2016 17:44
Mr. Jolly wrote:
In our techno utopian future we will all be eating real meat constructed from stem cells grown in vats manipulated to create the correct taste and texture, proper milk and cheese from genetically modified yeast or something.

Simple

at least some of that it likely to happen in our dystopian cyberpunk present pretty soon

Scallywag
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Jan 3 2016 17:48
Mr. Jolly wrote:
In our techno utopian future we will all be eating real meat constructed from stem cells grown in vats manipulated to create the correct taste and texture, proper milk and cheese from genetically modified yeast or something.

Simple

Lol we'll probably destroy the environment and be eating some powder supplement sad

factvalue
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Jan 3 2016 18:03
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i don't find your posts conducive to reasoned debate, half the time i have trouble figuring out what your trying to say or who its aimed at.

Yes I came to the same conclusion a little earlier. I'm not lacking evidence for anything, but to initiate a constructive discussion rather than just continuing with your game of word ping pong, you're going to have to back up what you claim, rather than wasting people's time with the likes of 'everyone knows' or the ludicrous 'lots of animals can be see in fields if you go to the coun'tryside' (F.F.S.!). I haven't been paying much attention to the thread but just looking at your response to UV:

1. 'in the uk keeping animals in cages to small for them to turn around is not the norm'
2. 'your entire argument consists of the worst stuff you can find anywhere in the world'

What where the numbers, where are the proofs which convinced you of these deeply held convictions?

radicalgraffiti
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Jan 3 2016 19:48
factvalue wrote:
Quote:
i don't find your posts conducive to reasoned debate, half the time i have trouble figuring out what your trying to say or who its aimed at.

Yes I came to the same conclusion a little earlier. I'm not lacking evidence for anything, but to initiate a constructive discussion rather than just continuing with your game of word ping pong, you're going to have to back up what you claim, rather than wasting people's time with the likes of 'everyone knows' or the ludicrous 'lots of animals can be see in fields if you go to the coun'tryside' (F.F.S.!). I haven't been paying much attention to the thread but just looking at your response to UV:

1. 'in the uk keeping animals in cages to small for them to turn around is not the norm'
2. 'your entire argument consists of the worst stuff you can find anywhere in the world'

What where the numbers, where are the proofs which convinced you of these deeply held convictions?

so everything is say is a deeply held conviction now?

well you can look at the laws about animal welfare here https://www.gov.uk/guidance/animal-welfare

this part
says regarding freedom of movement

Quote:
Freedom of movement

9. The freedom of movement of animals, having regard to their species and in accordance with good practice and scientific knowledge, must not be restricted in such a way as to cause them unnecessary suffering or injury.

10. Where animals are continuously or regularly tethered or confined, they must be given the space appropriate to their physiological and ethological needs in accordance with good practice and scientific knowledge.

As for what there argument consists of, they have been telling us all through this thread that we just needed to what this video, that should be enough to convince us, if we have any empath at all, that veganism is the only way. Typical vegan propaganda consists of bad things happening to animals, and lies about whats in fast food, from what was said, and the first few seconds of the video, i guessed it was the former kind.
now do i know that they picked the worst stuff they could find in the hope of provoking the strongest reaction? no i don't, but i would be vary surprised if they didn't.

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Auld-bod
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Jan 3 2016 20:23

When I was a kid I had impetigo on my forehead. It was itchy as hell and not to be scratched. This thread is a bit like that as new posts pop up and I know I should not look.

factvalue
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Jan 3 2016 21:33

Alright! I'll have a look at that, in particular it would be relevant to check if there were equivalent animal welfare laws where the videos were filmed.

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