Lee Harvey Oswalds Observation of Factory Life in Minsk

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ajjohnstone
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Sep 6 2017 10:06
Lee Harvey Oswalds Observation of Factory Life in Minsk

Not often do we read about LHO's experiences in the Soviet Union when he defected. But i suppose some will say it is a fake CIA cover story document.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/thecollective.htm

Noa Rodman
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Sep 6 2017 15:12

Interesting.

Quote:
a total of 15 meetings a month, 14 of which are compulsory for Communist party members and 12 compulsory for all others. These meetings are always held after work or on the lunch hour.

Tbh, endless meetings seems it could be a problem also with genuine "democratic" organisations, as well as today in capitalist work life.

btw, I don't know if anyone will say it is fake. The conspiracy theorists could wonder how it was possible that this young guy was allowed to go there and return in the midst of the cold war. Or why, if he was an honest communist, did he mingle with reactionary emigré community in Texas upon his return (he said to spy on them). And generally on the Kennedy assassination, even regardless of whether LHO was just a patsy, they will point to the serious neglect of US secret service's usual security procedure on the car's route (e.g. allowing open windows of buildings), as Fletcher Prouty does.

[paging Dave B for his insights.]

ajjohnstone
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Sep 7 2017 02:31

Conspiracists will always find inconsistencies to over-exaggerate to make their case. Prouty believes Churchill had Roosevelt poisoned...the Alex Jones of the JFK conspiracist crowd.

The House Select Committee on Assassinations examined Secret Service files, and found
that from March through December 1963 the agency received information
on over 400 possible threats to the President and then add the many instances of loose and violent talk about the President being killed never were reported...Imagine these days with internet threats....

Kennedy was lackadaisical about his own security. He was the one who wanted open-top limousines and no SS men hanging on to it. No windows were ever kept closed or whatever...that is another figment of Prouty's overactive imagination

As for SS lapses, then i think Reagan's attempted killing is a most glaring lapse...

I learned the other day that the choice of the autopsy at Bethesda was only made on the plane by Jackie Kennedy. Burkley, JFK's personal doctor gave her a choice of Bethesda, John Hopkins or any other hospital of her choice in the Washington area and she chose Bethesda purely because it was a naval establishment and JFK was ex-navy. So according to some conspiracists if the autopsy was fixed....then they would have had to pre-arrange countless doctors and medical personnal to ensure it would be fixed if she chose a different hospital at the last minute.

I would imagine LHO and his wife's circle would be partly determined by her and the need for Russian company in a strange country. I doubt there be many Russian speakers who shared LHO politics.

And just to self-publicise
https://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2010s/2015/no-1336-december-2015/lee-harvey-oswald-%E2%80%98hunter-fascists%E2%80%99

Noa Rodman
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Sep 7 2017 13:01
Quote:
No windows were ever kept closed or whatever...that is another figment of Prouty's overactive imagination

fair enough, I see this point was also made on Mcadams debunking site

Quote:
Prouty believes Churchill had Roosevelt poisoned...

Looks like that one is based on Elliott Roosevelt's claim that Stalin voiced this conspiracy theory to him in 1946, which given Stalin's paranoia (and conflict with Churchill) sounds credible.

ajjohnstone
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Sep 8 2017 09:36

Despite being a right-winger politically Mcadam's site is a useful source of links to many others.

As been said before, i happily and shamelessly plagiarise without crediting sources

Noa Rodman
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Nov 5 2017 20:50

bumping this after the release of further files. I didn't read them, but apparently the CIA did watch Oswald.

ajjohnstone wrote:
The House Select Committee on Assassinations examined Secret Service files, and found
that from March through December 1963 the agency received information
on over 400 possible threats to the President and then add the many instances of loose and violent talk about the President being killed never were reported...Imagine these days with internet threats....

I think from Prouty's reasoning can be taken that, granted all that is true (and Oswald was a lone gunman), for a state inside job all that is required is to turn a blind eye to one of the already existing threats, i.e. it is not necessary to actually orchestrate things. As is true also for other situations, it's a fine line between sheer incompetence and wilful neglect.

ajjohnstone
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Nov 6 2017 01:19
Quote:
apparently the CIA did watch Oswald.

I think they were watching the Cuban and Soviet embassies in Mexico City rather than LHO.

Certainly, anti-Castro CIA front organisations may have expressed interest in LHO in New Orleans. After all, he was active in the Fair Play For Cuba campaign and appeared on local radio and tv stations and they would want to know more about him.

A 1975 CIA trawl of their own records found no relationship with LHO

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/04/jfk-assassination-files-oswald-cia

But, of course, we can be cynical - they would say that, wouldn't they?...and anyway by 1975, any incriminating documents would be shredded.

So make of it what you wish.

The balls-up cover-up conspiracy is fully acknowledged i think by all lone gunman advocates. FBI agent Hosty destroyed his appointment note with LHO, for example.

The latest published papers did reveal the FBI's smear of MLK as a CP fellow-traveller and a sexual deviant. Both accusations already aired previously

I personally think this JFK obsession is a distracting influence on genuine conspiracies of assassination such as the FBI's Cointelpro operation to kill Black Panthers.

Dave B
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Dec 8 2017 19:42

ah well

The JFK thing is so cluttered up with stuff that it is hard to sift stuff out.

There has been recently a better book on the subject as below.

https://off-guardian.org/2017/11/19/book-review-jfk-and-the-unspeakable-how-he-died-and-why-it-matters/

And there has been a more rational take on the deep state meme, which is doing recently for perhaps an unlikely source eg.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/48374.htm

I think this cultural psychological fascination with whodunit from Frank Columbo to Miami CSI, of which I as guilty as anyone, is just as interesting as each individual case itself.

There was another one that did look quite good and so bizarre you could almost believe it.

Oswald had a couple of pops and one of the guys in the car behind stands up and whipped out an automatic rifle, did have them and there is photos of it etc.

Not really having any clear idea of what was going on.

Car surges forward and gun goes off and puts a bullet in the back of JFK’s head.

And that was the cover up.

Are there no people here who went to Eastern Europe before the wall came down?

I know three.

One was daughter of German parents and now a Trot ; father was POW and soft Hitler youth who didn’t want to go back to Dresden.

Another did a engineering degree and did 6 months on a ‘student exchange’ in the early 1970’s at a boiler making factory in Czechoslovakia.

And someone else who bedded a Hungarian women in Manchester and went over there in the late 1970’s.

Looks like the Pope has switched to Marcion like pre Socratic Hellinistic dualism with the Lords prayer thing.

ajjohnstone
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Dec 9 2017 02:08

Sorry, DaveB, but that the Secret Service ballsed up is simply mistaken and been effectively debunked.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/Shooting_holes_in_theory_that_a_Secret_Service_agent_killed_President_Kennedy.html

JFK and the Unspeakable,
A critical review
http://www.washingtondecoded.com/site/2009/12/unspeakably-awful.html

I happen to accept that jfk in private intended a phased withdrawal from Vietnam but since he was up for re-election in 1964 he declined to announce it publically. This explains all the contradictory evidence of his speeches and how even LBJ thought he was carrying out jfk's intended policies.. jfk's change of mind was only a matter of months earlier - a bit too short-notice to organise an elaborate assassination plot claimed by CTers.

The easiest option for the Deep State would be defeat jfk in the upcoming election. They could have challenged him to state clearly his Vietnam policy - if it was true he was withdrawing leaving jfk to admit he was when the war and the domino theory was still popular or making him confirm he was intending to stay - making any assassination superfluous. There was enough other skeletons in the closet to bury jfk's hopes of re-election.