AYN, Enrager, Libcom...

The AYN is now defunct, right? Why did that happen and what's being done to create a replacement? A youth network is pretty damn necessary.

It appears that their website is still live, though :D

http://flag.blackened.net/ayn/Ideas/stopschool.htm

--------------- WHAT YOU CAN DO ---------------

1. Get a syringe (minus needle) or similar device. Mix both tubes of epoxy glue with a little rubbing alcohol. You now have about half an hour to fill locks, door jambs, etc. before glue hardens. If you can't get the epoxy glue and syringe a tube of airplane cement can also be used although it is not as permanent.

2. An alternative use for the syringe is to pretend to shoot up while a teacher is watching. If they speak to you tell them you have to do it because school is so horrible.

3. Call the school and leave the phone off the hook. The way some (but not all) phone systems work this will tie up their phone for as long as yours is off the hook.

4. Protest U.S. aid to reactionary regimes abroad by defoliating plants around the school or by digging a bomb crater on the front lawn. When the ecology freaks complain ask them where they were when the U.S. was doing the same thing to Indochina.

5. Draw or paste something 'obscene' on pull-down wall maps or movie screens. (one for Jack there :wink: )

6. Get some of the punch cards that your school uses for taking attendance. Punch new holes in them either with a keypunch machine or a screwdriver. Then switch the cards with others wherever they are stored. If you can figure out the code the cards are punched by this has even more possibilities. You can often be just as effective without actually repunching the cards by redistributing them a few days after you collect them (particularly when they're used for attendence).

7. Start an information service to get new students opinions and warnings about the teachers and administrators before enrollment day.

8. Bad food? Have a good old fashioned food riot.

9. In gym classes or in hallways between classes have massive searches for 'lost' contact lenses telling people not to walk through the hall or 'you might step on it'.

10. If your school still has a dress code protest it having everyone do something disruptive that does not violate the code. For example, dye your hair green with food coloring.

11. Free all the animals in the biology classroom.

12. Write a 'consumer report' on the 'education' you've been consuming. Distribute it to parents at school functions.

13. Periodically have students go to the office to have some rumor confirmed or denied.

14. Perform citizen's arrests of administrators for destroying the minds of youth then telephone the police to come and take the criminals into custody. (This would be an excellent guerilla theatre action).

15. Rip off dishes and silverware from the cafeteria, towels from the gym, stencils and paper from the duplicating room, layout equipment from the art and drafting departments, tools from the wood shop, and light bulbs from the sockets. Give them to a needy movement group.

16. During lunch turn on and light all the gas jets in the science labs.

17. Demand to see your school records on file. (Everyone can see them.)

18. You can make a very effective fuse by inserting a non-filter cigarette in a book of matches so that it touches the head of some matches and will ignite them when it burns down that far. Then loosly crumple paper around the matches and cigarettes so that they are hidden. Toss it in a wastebasket or any other area with a lot of papers preferrably in the office. It takes about 5 minutes to ignite -- by then you can be on the other side of the building. Practice this at home before trying it. :bb:

19. Have giant coughing or sneezing epidemics in class or study hall.

20. Rub lipstick, glue, vaseline, or shit onto the doorknobs of the school's administrative offices. :shock:

21. Swallow some snake bite antidote then walk into the principal's office. The antidote (most types are harmless -- make sure you get that kind) will make you vomit. Do so all over his carpet, desk, clothing, etc. then apologize profusely.

22. Pick up some dog training liquid at any pet store -- it smells like concentrated piss. And if you can't figure out what to do with that then you shouldn't be reading this.

23. Remove contents of teacher's mailboxes. Print up everything that's confidential or interesting.

24. Leave notes and hints that 'Tuesday's the day'.

25. Impersonate parental voices and make irate phone calls to the office.

26. Make a super stink bomb out of Hydrogen Sulfide and put somewhere in the ventilating system. This has cleared school buildings for days.

27. If your school has a suspended ceiling (a ceiling composed of rectangles or squares resting on a frame so that the rectangles can be pushed up) you can put a dead fish -- or anything else -- above them. Or put it into empty lockers and glue them shut.

28. Put signs on your locker saying 'this locker will self-destruct if opened for inspection'.

29. Give your school library a subscription to a good underground newspaper from your area and insist that they make it available to students.

30. Print up false notices frequently using the same format as the school uses and distribute them to the teachers' mailboxes. Eventually they'll never know what to believe.

31. Make your own passes, forms, tickets, etc. or lift them out of teachers' desks.

32. Need a signature? Collect things that have teachers' signatures on them. Paste them all down on a sheet of white paper and either xerox or print up a bunch of copies. Forge when useful. (When getting started you might put a piece of carbon paper under the signature with the carbon paper facing down on what you want signed. Then trace over the name with a steady relaxed hand. Practice makes perfect.)

33. Do some revolutionary wall painting. All you need is a can of spray paint (red?) plus a little imagination and courage. Then write your favorite slogans on walls, sidewalks, blackboards, etc. If you are a perfectionist you can make a stencil, but that limits the size of what you can do. WEAR GLOVES or you will certainly get tell-tale paint on your spraying finger.

34. Are certain teachers or administrators misbehaving? Print up a rat sheet with their names and telephone numbers and distribute it.Now students can call up at any time and reprimand them -- 3:00 AM for example. Also you could order them pizzas ... plumbers ... think big!

35. Break into your school at night and burn it down. To get inside you can either hide in the building during the day and wait until the janitor leaves (know in advance what time that is), or come in later at night and either force your way through the door, find an open window, or break a window (see Monroe Mindfuck). If you use the latter method do it a few hours or days in advance so you don't get caught if it attracts attention. Be careful not to leave fingerprints -- wear gloves all the time if possible. Once inside make sure the walls will light well by placing loose paper or wood around them, or squirting lighter fluid, kerosene, or gasoline onto them. If a lot of burnable boxes are stacked in one area spread them around. Start the fire from the inside of the building so it will take longer before it can be seen from the windows. Make sure the fire has a way to travel from one burnable area to another. Of course you should wear dark clothes and know exactly where you are going when you split.

36. Get hold of a film to be shown at a school assembly and splice in parts of another movie of your own choosing before the assembly. A little imagination on your part will make for an unforgettable day.

37. Clog up the drains of sinks with clay then turn on the water after everyone leaves school.

38. Teachers often leave gradebooks, conduct sheets, and attendance records unguarded. Take every chance to help yourself.

39. Put up posters all around the school. To make them stick permanently use Pet evaporated milk for glue.

40. You could ice-pick tires as a warning -- but make sure you have a total enemy before you put sugar in their gas tank.

41. Start wailing in the halls.

42. If you can't find any skunks, let chickens loose in the school ...or pigeons.

43. Create the 'WEB OF THREAD' in your classroom. Have everybody in your class bring a spool of thread -- with extras for people who forget. Tie your thread onto something and pass the spools around till you run out, winding thread around everything. (It is best to pick on one of your more dullwitted teachers for this one). Expalin that you did it in the name of art.

44. Carry and pretend to sell oregano rolled in papers and aspirin with the name filed off.

45. Put Calcium Carbide (available in some parts of the country as 'Gopher- Go', also available in some hobby and joke shops) in a gelatin capsule and flush down a toilet or sink. Calcium Carbide reacts violently with water, quickly producing large amounts of HIGHLY FLAMMABLE gas and bursting pipes, etc. as soon as the water dissolves the capsule.

46. Ride a bicycle down a busy hall.

47. Save your book reports and essays. Give them to other students to use next year or re-use them yourself with different teachers.

48. Play with lighting and microphone controls during 'important' assemblies.

49. Flush things down the toilets (preferably faculty johns) like balloons filled with air, baseballs, M80's, huge amounts of toilet paper, etc. Then build an ark.

50. Start a campaign to have the letter Z appear everywhere as the mark of angry students.

51. You can short-circuit the school's wiring by taking a regular plug with a short cord attached. Connect the 2 wires with a switch between them. Plug it in, turn the switch on, and you've blown a fuse. Turn it off, pull it out, and try another. You don't have to use the switch, but if you don't sometimes the current will arc and weld the plug to the socket.

52. Set up a fake school and hire away the lousy teachers -- or put up notices inviting the entire school to a going away party for a teacher who isn't really leaving.

53. Read the school budget. Reprint and distribute a list of the stupid expenditures.

54. Take booze to lunch in a thermos and pass it around.

55. During some important test (SAT/ACT/etc. ) on each subject have some student who is good at that subject stand up and read the correct answers for as long as possible. When they're finished or silenced have someone else stand up and do the same thing. The test results will be worthless and it will have to be given over at great cost to the school.

56. Take down the American flag in front of the school and put up one of your own. The best way to do this is to lower the flag that's already up replace it with your flag and cut the rope about a foot below where the flag is attached. Then tie a slip knot around the other end of the rope that is hanging down to raise the flag. At this point there is no way your flag can be lowered without someone climbing up the flagpole.

57. Put alarm clocks in various lockers set on 'loudest'. Set the alarm clocks so they will go off about every 10 minutes then close and lock the lockers.

58. Have a group of people march around the school with a flag singing the Star Spangled Banner. If the administration tries to punish you telephone your local radio stations and patriotic groups and complain that your school is being run by pinkos.

59. In a class where there is a rule against chewing gum have everyone blow a bubble at the same time one day.

60. Many schools have automatic sprinkler systems which go off automatically when sensors in the ceiling feel too much heat. Find the sensors and hold up a match to them.

61. Persuade the graduating class to use their senior gift money for something useful or subversive.

62. Reprint School Stoppers Textbook in your underground paper or on a leaflet or buy bulk copies and pass them around.

63. Demand that all equipment being stored rather than being used be made available to students.

64. If your school won't have a teacher evaluation make up some forms and do it yourself. Compile the result and publicize them to students, faculty, school board, and community.

65. Use your 'free choice' book reports, term papers, etc. to read revolutionary literature and further the political education of you and your class.

66. Have a student lie on the ground. When a teacher comes scream 'he jumped' and point to the roof or third floor window. Mumble 'Fred dared him' or 'Maybe it was LSD.'

67. Make an address list of disliked adults in your school. Answer sex ads for them -- or order them a few gross items (C.O.D. of course).

68. Toss handfuls of BB's on the floors of busy halls, assemblies, graduation ceremonies, weddings, funerals.

69. Steal cafeteria trays or plates, burn large holes in them, and turn them into the school washer saying 'I guess the food did it'.

70. Leave phony letters of resignation from teachers or administrators on the principal's desk.

71. Get a small group to always carry screwdrivers and slowly dismantle the school.

72. Lots of bomb scares tend to break up the boredom especially during exams or on beautiful days.

73. Photograph teachers and administrators constantly -- even without film.

74. If you've got the nerve piss in your pants while giving an oral report.

75. Splice into your school's intercom system (from a remote hidden spot). Now you have your own guerilla radio station. Play on!

76. Drop large bottles of ether in science class.

77. Hang your teacher! Hang a hangman's noose from a tree - make a dummy and hang the dummy from the noose. Pin notes on it like 'Weatherbee in '73.' To add realism put holes in the body then let dilute ketchup trickle down.

78. Newspaper stands in buildings are usually left unguarded. Take out papers and replace with rotten comics or papers.

79. Put a rotten apple or stale sandwich on teacher's desk. That'll learn them!

80. If your school intercom has phones that connect into the intercom switchboard, put a small magnet either where the cord comes out of the handset or in the part where you hear. If the intercom just has a speaker, put the magnet near or on one of the electrical connections of the speaker. In either case it will short out the system. It may take weeks for them to find the trouble.

81. Take the door of the administration offices off its hinges but leave it standing there so that when the principal tries to open the door in the morning it will have a slightly crushing effect.

I am an admin here, and am proud to say I had nothing whatsoever to do with the AYN!

Having said that, a few of the ex-AYNers have indeed written a history and explanation of what it was, where it went, why they feel it failed, and what lessons those writing it feel they should pass on to the next set of people trying to set up an anarchist youth organisation.

I'll get people involved to reply here when I contact them next.

In my personal opinion the AYN was a bit shite and i quickly got fed up with it. However, it seems to have drawn in some people who're still actively involved so maybe it wasn't completely pointless.

i don't think the UK needs a youth group. There are already 3 national feds, why do we need another one?

I was well involved in the AYN, it was shite, met a load of cool peeps though, will write something more later...

:)

OK, here's a short history of what happened...

A load of us that had been posting on the maydaywhiteoveralls list (the old Wombles one) got together and had a meeting in central London and started the network, the majority of the libcom admins were at that first meeting, we then started meeting now and then and were mainly just going on demo's and trying to produce propaganda. We had a fairly active e-mail list and produced a load of a leaflets, a one off newsletter, and we had a fairly good website but all we really did was walk around dressed in black on demo's.

The AYN was always a fairly loose network with very little theoretical unity, there was quite a big red vs. greens split (most of the libcom admins were on the red side ;)) which I think held the network back a lot. Enrager.net then got started by one of us, the AYN web forum was hosted on it, but then the AYN fizzled out and those of us who're now doing the site decided to form a class struggle anarchist collective that would do a number of things such as screen printing t-shirts, making flags, and running this site.

This site has been the most successful of all the things we've done, and we haven't really done much else recently, we decided to change the name from enrager.net to libcom.org partly because it reflects the development of our politics.

:)

Brighton Bomber

On the other 3 feds, they're not really accesible to most people, let alone the youth.

Why not? They have addresses don't they?

as well as the email list, the ayn had a total of three summer gatherings. the first one was awesome in the radical dairy, we decided loads of stuff, very little of which actually got done in the end, i guess because people lost interest or something. like Tommy Ascaso said, most activity seemed to consist of dressing up in black on demos. if all the people who'd got in touch with the ayn had come and dressed up in black on the demos, we'd actually have had quite a big black block, but unfortunately (or fortunately) that never happened, i don't think there were ever more than 20 or maybe 30 max ayners on a demo.

the second ayn gathering was a total fiasco. it was in some squat near marble arch, which was well posh, but most of the people there weren't even vaguely interested in the ayn, shit though it was, the meetings had no direction, and the only one people seemed to show much interest in was the reds v. greens debate. basically it was a piss up masquerading as a meeting, and it was shit. also, that was where i first ate rice with a spanner that i was convinced was a screwdriver.

the third and last ayn gathering was last summer, and in birmingham for a change. it happened pretty much purely because i thought it would be amusing to have an ayn gathering in a nursery, and convinced brum activists to help me squat it. i think there were about 8 of us. it was nice enough, and at least we didn't make big grand plans, but none of the little things we decided on doing happened other than a small zine called black kitten. people just lost interest completely, but i think most people there were involved in stuff already, and still are.

although it was quite enjoyable, i met loads of cool people, and it probably helped me get involved in stuff, i don't really think there is a need for a seperate youth organisation. i suspect if there hadn't been the ayn i'd have met most of the people i did anyway, and it seems daft to seperate the struggles of "young" people from the rest of the population, especially when i don't think there's really that much intimidation of younger militants by older ones, if anything it's more the other way around. also, apart from the problem of defining who is eligible to be "youth", any such organisation inevitably has a high turnover, unless you have the dodgy situation of revo of it being controlled by a bunch of old men in some other organisation.

GenerationTerrorist

i don't really think there is a need for a seperate youth organisation. i suspect if there hadn't been the ayn i'd have met most of the people i did anyway, and it seems daft to seperate the struggles of "young" people from the rest of the population, especially when i don't think there's really that much intimidation of younger militants by older ones, if anything it's more the other way around. also, apart from the problem of defining who is eligible to be "youth", any such organisation inevitably has a high turnover, unless you have the dodgy situation of revo of it being controlled by a bunch of old men in some other organisation.

more or less what i would say in answer to BB

I'm amazed the lack of organisation/lack of belief in the need for organisation was also pretty endemic.

Finally, just for the record i'd like to point out i only have one piece of black clothing, a grey and black hoody

I just thought I'd say, I pretty much agree with Tommy Ascaso and gen terror on what they said about AYN. I enjoyed being in AYN and I think it helped me, but as people have said there wasn't any theoretical unity and such.

If it wasn't for AYN I dont think I could ever say I saw someone eat rice with a spanner though.

is that thread still around from the last AYN gathering? that was fucking hysterical :) :)

I assume it got deleted with the rest of the stuff on the AYN board here.

I don't get the point of a youth network, surely if somebody is mature enough to have fully worked out, coherent political ideas, there's no reason they should be compartmentalised into some faction for da yoot?

I loved the AYN. I went to the second gathering and I thought it was the best thing ever. It definately helped shape my politics a lot and I met a bunch of cool people too. I think, personaly when I found it, it looked a lot more appealing than the other fed sites. Maybe it shouldn't have anything to do with age but I was 14 when I got into anarchism and the AYN just seemed "really cool yeah awesome" compared to some others.

Plus I had a rad 15th birthday and got to watch GT eat food with a spanner.

so we can summarise the achievements of the ayn as:

- it was fun for a bit

- we met some cool people

- people got to see me eating food with a spanner

oh, and i almost forgot, i would never have made hardcore riot porno volume 1, raising nearly £300 for prisoners, if i hadn't been in the ayn.

have you got any riot porn left?

my friend should have the last 5 videos somewhere, i'm meeting him tonight, i'll ask him what he's done with them. but i think they're reserved by class war, but you can always get somr off them. i'm debating whether to make volume 2 actually, i have some good stuff to put on it, and it's good practice for producing and stuff, but last time it took all fucking summer, so unless i find a better program to stick it together with i'm not sure i can be bothered. apart from the time it was a good way of raising money though...

looking at from outside i always thought AYN was a good idea - sure most of their plans didnt come to much - but the fact so many of them are still involved is a testament to some success

there is probably a need for an anarchist youth group, but the only people who can set one up are young anarchos

you mean like grace & jess?

oisleep

you mean like grace & jess?

banding together for mutual protection from jack would be a sensible precaution yes

kalabine

oisleep

you mean like grace & jess?

banding together for mutual protection from jack would be a sensible precaution yes

or just banding together for the sheer hell of it!

Jack

Obligatory posting of the REAL history of the AYN...

8)

http://www.libcom.org/lib/official-anarchist-youth/

Sign me up!

Perhaps us new, COOL kids can see the need for controlling gender ratios even if you old folks can't.

Jess

Perhaps us new, COOL kids can see the need for controlling gender ratios even if you old folks can't.

What we need is an all new girly AYN - me, you, grace and shoes...

Jack

You could have pinks bows and EVERYTHING.

And talk about knitting and kittens and controlling gender ratios!

Thora

Jess

Perhaps us new, COOL kids can see the need for controlling gender ratios even if you old folks can't.

What we need is an all new girly AYN - me, you, grace and shoes...

And me!

Or am I too old...and male? :cry:

The problem of you maleness can be quickly solved with a sharp knife. Still want to join?

...and I was so in favour of a new anarchist group until a couple of seconds ago.

I'm off to join a proper organisation; The Anarchist Federation!! 8)

Jess

The problem of you maleness can be quickly solved with a sharp knife. Still want to join?

You can alter my DNA with a knife?

Volin

.

I'm off to join a proper organisation; The Anarchist Federation!! 8)

that would be a sensible choice :wink:

Thora

Jack

You could have pinks bows and EVERYTHING.

And talk about knitting and kittens and controlling gender ratios!

Kittens!! I'm calling mine rabbi

Yeah a history of it is not written but it is being done. I was involved in AYN, and found out there had been an AY Federation in the 80s or something, but they didn't write anything about their experiences and I bet we repeated all their mistakes - which were basically the mistakes of anarchists in the UK generally - no formal organisation, class analysis, theoretical unity, or any fucking clue what to do at all really!

I didn't even get to see anyone eat food with a spanner... Still I learnt a fair bit about organisation, and radical movements in general.

At its peak in London we had 30-40 people a fortnight at meetings, and about 12 local "groups", which mostly existed on paper only. AFAIK almost everyone were just people who came along cos it was "cool" or something, and all who remain of it are the the Manchester AYN group who now populate this forum's NW section, GT and some of the libcom group.

I thought that old site had been deleted, cos we had a couple of other ones since then. Tommy Ascaso is to blame for that text :D

Steven.

At its peak in London we had 30-40 people a fortnight at meetings, and about 12 local "groups", which mostly existed on paper only. AFAIK almost everyone were just people who came along cos it was "cool" or something, and all who remain of it are the the Manchester AYN group who now populate this forum's NW section, GT and some of the libcom group.

Me and shoes too. Bastard.

Innit brah

Well I thought I'd bump this cos I've been in a bit of an AYN nostalgia mood for some reason. There is now a bunch of shit in the library in our new Anarchist Youth Network archive.

There will also very shortly be a personal history/analysis of what it was, what happened and what went wrong.

I was maybe going to send out a bunch of mini-questionnaires to lots of the people involved to see what they thought about it in retrospect as well, to put online also.

guydebordisdead

Anarchist Youth in Ireland has folded after a year of activity.

Ah, I had wondered about that.

guydebordisdead

Kids are fickle and have short attention spans.

Like those working class fools who won't fight The Man!

The politics were a lot less ropey than some of the AYN people which was probably because of the involvement of wsm members from the start. The remaing core of AY are now joining the WSM so it was certainly an interesting and worthwhile experiment.

:D

jef costello

The politics were a lot less ropey than some of the AYN people which was probably because of the involvement of wsm members from the start. The remaing core of AY are now joining the WSM so it was certainly an interesting and worthwhile experiment.

:D

That's probably true. While AYN was started by two class struggle anarchists in the AF - gawky being one - he buggered off immediately, while the other one plus the rest of had come from the activistoid milieu. So even those of us whose politics were actually ok had no idea of how to put them into practice. I'll put up my recollections tomorrow probably...

Good to read about the early days of the AYN. Brings back some memories from my early days.

And BTW, this isn't that very same spanner is it?

http://www.redanarchist.org/images/title.jpg

;)

B.

Admin - big pic turned to link

The same spanner as what?

the one used to eat food with Steven, i shouldn't wonder. Never heard of that group Beltov any links, its looks a laugh.

http://redanarchist.org/

US based it seems. I think some of them post on Revleft. Not sure if any of them are on Libcom.

B.

i think they're out of philadelphia?

I think Leo knows them from when he lived in the states.
Devrim

I think one of them posts on LibCom

I like RAAN. I think of em like SHAC folks except with good politics. They could do a lot of good running direct actionist type campaigns against class enemies. Imagine a SHAC style campaign against union busting firms?

Who are SHAC?

Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty

Their like SHAC? Sounds good, what do they do, run in and liberate workers?

guydebordisdead

Anarchist Youth in Ireland has folded after a year of activity. It peaked with around 30kids involved at one point but there was only ever a dedicated core of maybe 6-8 people. Kids are fickle and have short attention spans.

The politics were a lot less ropey than some of the AYN people which was probably because of the involvement of wsm members from the start. The remaing core of AY are now joining the WSM so it was certainly an interesting and worthwhile experiment.

This was always likely to happen. In fact I'm surprised that AY lasted as long as it did before most of the people around drifted off and a core moved into the WSM.

Youth organisations are difficult to sustain because the core people get older or get involved in different things. When that happens in a stand-alone youth organisation there are rarely enought new people committed to the organisation to take up the slack and the whole thing just sort of fades away.

Youth organisations connected to adult groupings can be a bit more stable because the adult organisation provides continuity and can also shoulder some of the organisational burden. Even then it's not easy: just look at the number of youth organisations on the left over the years and how few of them survive for any length of time:

The Connolly Youth Movement was resurrected a couple of years back and is now invisible again. The Republican Socialist Youth Movement also seems to be semi-defunct. The SWP have had a couple of goes at setting up Revolutionary Youth, to no avail. Anarchist Youth has just bitten the dust. Socialist Youth's run (it must be six years old by now) looks amazingly long by comparison.

It's a bit different in mainstream politics, where party youth wings provide a starting point for careerists and the like.

guydebordisdead

It probably helped that we had an ex-trot in the group who had a lot of experience with proper organising.

!

Catch 22

I like RAAN. I think of em like SHAC folks except with good politics. They could do a lot of good running direct actionist type campaigns against class enemies. Imagine a SHAC style campaign against union busting firms?

geddouttahere!! Really? Gotta link?

on a general point, there is nothing wrong with youth groups in y view provided they are started by actual youth, preferably 14 - 18. If u r to accept a youth network is worth organising itself on its own - which i think i do - you can't have the initiative coming from people who aren't really youth. People up to 22 could be involved but it would confuse things. The best, and perhaps only good thing about a youth group is the ability for kids to work things out for themselves, amongst themselves. I think it helped the ex-AYN(UK) develop their political skills immeasurably.

If kids wanted to start a group, they should be supported by the feds, but there's no need to kick off a groip without any demand for it.

Irrationally Angry - on your list of deceased youth groups, bare in mind Revolution and ISR, the workers power and SP groups respectively. They are both going after dunno, a decade? Revolution has been very successful for WP and allowed them a presence in a lot of anti-capitalist events they wouldn't have otherwise been at. Revolution has apparently even survived the WP split. I'm not so sure how useful ISR have been to the SP but they seem to have a lot of genuinely young people in it on demo's and such.

guydebordisdead

I don't understand it either, I know a few people who left though and not all of them have nice things to say.

Part of it is that the adult party provides a kind of continuity, meaning that people can move on to other things without causing disruption to the organisation. It also can provide help in terms of resources, advice and encouragement when needed. It's much more difficult for a youth organisation out on its own to survive a difficult period or its founders moving on.

That said, plenty of organisations on the left have launched youth wings without managing to sustain them. That can be fairly easily explained in the cases of the CYM and RSYM: the adult parties, the CPI and the IRSP, don't have much life in them either. It's harder to explain why the SWP couldn't sustain Revolutionary Youth despite having launched it a couple of times. I suspect that they just didn't put enough time and effort into it, didn't allow it any independent life or perhaps they just didn't happen to have a few young people with the necessary drive.

As far as people having nice things to say goes, I'm more surprised if ex-members now drifting around other parts of the left do have nice things to say!

Not sure if there's much difference between "mainstream" parties and your lot (you sit in the dail dont you?). Look at Cian in Limerick who obviously has his heart set on a full time job in the SP and probably a shot at the elections ultimately.

Anyone who joins Socialist Youth because of the career opportunities needs to have their head examined! I don't think that spending years as an activist in the hope of getting an opportunity to live in penury as a Socialist Party fulltimer in the future can really be considered a self-interested move. As for wanting to be a Socialist Party election candidate... well let's just say our candidate selection process more closely resembles conscription of the unwilling than it does the struggle for career advancement which takes place in the mainstream political parties.

If you become an SP candidate you have years of backbreaking labour to look forward to with little chance of ever getting elected to anything. I can only think of one person who ever angled for the chance to stand as an SP candidate, and he never became one.

Sign me up!

Right I've posted my thoughts on this to the library now here

I was gonna make some changes maybe - so anything inaccurate or you disagree with, let me know and I may edit the article accordingly.

It sounds like a hideous waste of time and energy. The Israel related stunts seem particularly ill-judged and to be frank you are lucky that there weren't more serious consequences.

I have four questions though:

1) Are there any accounts from the other (non class-struggle) wing of the AYN of what they think went wrong? For that matter has anything been written by people who had your "activistoid" class struggle politics?

2) What were your decision making structures like? Was it all "consensus" and the like? And did people who didn't do anything have as much of a say as those who actually ended up doing the work?

3) What were your relationships like with other political groupings? You make reference to a certain younger sibling style relationship to the Wombles, but what about the AF, Solfed and Class War? What about Workers Power and Revolution and the rest of the 57 varieties?

4) This is related to the above question and is as much a point as a question, but what the hell were the AF thinking? Their members set the AYN up, they have a coherent politics of their own, why weren't they making a sustained effort to get in an around the AYN and win as many of its members to their politics as they could?

I mean say what you like about the WSM but they have come out of the Irish Anarchist Youth experience with most of its core half dozen activists as members of the adult group. The AYN was much bigger than AY and I can't see why the AF shouldn't have come out of the whole thing with say 20 consolidated new members. Other than obvious reasons of course - standard issue anarchist fear of recruitment and inability to intervene as a group. (For AF, feel free to insert Solfed for that matter).

Steven.

Right I've posted my thoughts on this to the library now here

A cracking read, thank you. One query is about the ativistoid scene recquiring and more militancy to 'fit in' or ganing approval - maybe its not the same people, but i've never experienced that, even on attempted 'riots'. Namechecking the RAF and ELF in that context seems... dunno.

ha ha ha, glad someone snapped that :D

now its all in the past mate, i also lined that AYN sticker on the tube and wrote 'Revo' over it, then lied when you cried about it on urban75 :p

ATB,T :)

tax

One query is about the ativistoid scene recquiring and more militancy to 'fit in' or ganing approval

I have definitely expierenced that, at the same time as Steven. Even if its not always explicit, its something which is definitely there.

IA

1) Are there any accounts from the other (non class-struggle) wing of the AYN of what they think went wrong?

I dont think any of us have ever seen any.

For that matter has anything been written by people who had your "activistoid" class struggle politics?

There might be a couple of things floating around which came from the same approach as J.

2) What were your decision making structures like? Was it all "consensus" and the like?

Yes it mostly was "consensus" based, at first at least iirc.

And did people who didn't do anything have as much of a say as those who actually ended up doing the work?

Yes i think they did, again up until a point at least.

3) What were your relationships like with other political groupings? You make reference to a certain younger sibling style relationship to the Wombles, but what about the AF, Solfed and Class War?

The AF, SF and CWF (like all other @ groups) were supportive I think, and out relationship with them was good. Socially at least. And I imagine all groups paid an interest to a certain extent because they saw the AYN as a good place to look for new people coming into the scene.

What about Workers Power and Revolution and the rest of the 57 varieties?

WP/Revo was a strange relationship. As a few AYNers had been involved with Revo and quite a few others dumped revol for AYN. They kinda seemed like the main 'competition' at one point. But the relationship was quite antagonistic at points, and the word 'sectarian' was used quite a lot by Revo etc.

4) This is related to the above question and is as much a point as a question, but what the hell were the AF thinking? Their members set the AYN up, they have a coherent politics of their own, why weren't they making a sustained effort to get in an around the AYN and win as many of its members to their politics as they could?

I think as the article mentions, quite a few AYNers were reluctant to get involved in what they saw as an "older left", a reluctance which probably grew from encouragement from certain other people within the movement who also disliked AF etc.

Saturday 14th July – loose theme of “What do we want the group to be?”
· Our long term aim is to destroy capitalism…

Bless! :D

rkn

quite a few others dumped revol

:D

Great article Steven.

I turned up to an AYN thing by accident (the second gathering thing), but I met some nice people there. Can't remember much about it though (to do with politics anyway).

IrrationallyAngry

(For AF, feel free to insert Solfed for that matter).

Actually I think SolFed had no one in the age range that AYN were at the time, certainly in London (and likely at the time in Manchester).

That's not to say that we would have been any better than the AF at working with them, just that we were unlikely to encounter them.

For differences as well, I think you have to remember that London is much bigger than Dublin. There are hundreds of people calling themselves anarchists here that I've never met. It is very easy for people to get a critical mass for small group actions here - this can actually work against longer term perspectives as it means that groups don't learn how to work with people whose perspectives they disagree with.

Regards,

Martin

Tacks

A cracking read, thank you. One query is about the ativistoid scene recquiring and more militancy to 'fit in' or ganing approval - maybe its not the same people, but i've never experienced that, even on attempted 'riots'.

Not on them, but come on the whole culture was based around posing militancy. Who'd been to Prague, who'd been to Genoa, who'd been to Palestine, etc.

ha ha ha, glad someone snapped that :D

now its all in the past mate, i also lined that AYN sticker on the tube and wrote 'Revo' over it, then lied when you cried about it on urban75 :p

Yeah I figured that was you, I kept meaning to ask but forgot.

Nigel:

It sounds like a hideous waste of time and energy.

God yeah.

I have four questions though:

1) Are there any accounts from the other (non class-struggle) wing of the AYN of what they think went wrong?

No.

I thought about emailing a tiny questionnaire of 4 questions to all the people who were involved, then I thought my time would be best spent on other stuff...

For that matter has anything been written by people who had your "activistoid" class struggle politics?

Er well Ed started writing something a while ago but got stalled. As it is I got the rest of the ex-AYN libcom people to have a look at it and suggest changes, then altered/added a few things.

2) What were your decision making structures like? Was it all "consensus" and the like? And did people who didn't do anything have as much of a say as those who actually ended up doing the work?

Hmmm I think we used consensus informally, with occasional showings of hands. That said I'm not sure we ever made many decisions really, ha ha. I think we asked if anyone particularly disagreed with anything first, and if not then it was passed. I can't think of anything ever being vetoed by one person.

People who didn't do anything did have a say yes, but because we never made any useful decisions I can't see that that was ever a problem! I think some of us might have proposed something about defined membership, points of unity, membership fees at a gathering or two but it wouldn't have got through.

3) What were your relationships like with other political groupings? You make reference to a certain younger sibling style relationship to the Wombles, but what about the AF, Solfed and Class War? What about Workers Power and Revolution and the rest of the 57 varieties?

SF we never really met, they had no connection with the activistoid scene. AF we knew, since 2 of them started it, but one guy buggered off immediately. I think the general consensus was groups like the AF were a bit old and boring, like trot groups. Class War - one guy was in CW, attracted by the ultra-militant prop and crude "class" rhetoric. He left later. Another guy kinda liked CW for a bit and was thinking of joining I believe, he put up some of their stickers, but then realised it wasn't worth it. We saw some CW people a bit through their links to the wombles/the scene. One leading womble once said on an email list that we were the only other anarchist group they actually respected.

WP and revo we had rivalry with, because they were the biggest anti-cap youth group we encountered (we never saw more than 1 or 2 ISR (SP youth) people. I was in revo previously, and had got into internal arguments over their links to workers power and trotskyism. They even used unconstitutional methods against me at conference ;) - using old WP members not in revo to argue and vote against me. We also poached a bunch of their members and got into a few arguments with them on our email list which a couple of WPers joined. One amusing incident which comes to mind was when one AYNer made a jokey attack on a his imagined "pimply sixth-form leader" of Revo. One revo guy then posted "Hey that's not fair to make fun of my skin condition."

4) This is related to the above question and is as much a point as a question, but what the hell were the AF thinking? Their members set the AYN up, they have a coherent politics of their own, why weren't they making a sustained effort to get in an around the AYN and win as many of its members to their politics as they could?

It wasn't an official AF thing. 2 young members did it. One with good politics left, I think he would've been pissing in the wind tbh, and the other was a class struggle activistoid like us.

The AYN was much bigger than AY and I can't see why the AF shouldn't have come out of the whole thing with say 20 consolidated new members. Other than obvious reasons of course - standard issue anarchist fear of recruitment and inability to intervene as a group.

A few ex-AYN people have joined the AF and SolFed (a bunch post here), not 20 though. I doubt they could've got 20 due to how apolitical so many were. I think the number would be comparable to the numbers workers power get out of revo, say, i.e. not many.

Irrationally Angry: "standard issue anarchist fear of recruitment"
I don't think the AF have ever had this trait, so please don't generalise about something you have no direct knowledge of. Other contributors have usefully explained why things were as not as pat as that with the AYN

As shoes said in general though, i dont think AYN was all bad. After all libcom wouldnt be here without the AYN and so therefore it might have been the best thing ever ;)

I think the fact we did it all ourselves was good, a steep learning curve anyway. It certainly helped develop my organisational skills a lot. Hmm one thing i forgot to mention in there was the informal hierarchy thing, which necessitated some kind of transparent structure, recallability etc. Which I suppose we did have because we brought in rotating posts which worked, apart from some like web team, and posts did get rotated around the same 4-5 people. but then the hierarchy couldn't really be avoided because most of the people couldn't be bothered, although obviously that is a two-way street but it was pretty obvious what was up.

guydebordisdead

But if one of the British anarchist groups had actively supported them then it might have lasted longer and been shaped in a better direction or even better - folded early to allow people to join the serious anarchist groups which already existed.

I'm not really sure
they could've done much to "actively support" us really...

Steven.

Not on them, but come on the whole culture was based around posing militancy. Who'd been to Prague, who'd been to Genoa, who'd been to Palestine, etc.

Fuck anyone who hasn't been to palestine. Posers and cowards the lot.

whoever said:

The AYN was much bigger than AY and I can't see why the AF shouldn't have come out of the whole thing with say 20 consolidated new members. Other than obvious reasons of course - standard issue anarchist fear of recruitment and inability to intervene as a group.

Or alternatively without the AYN (and a anticapitalist movement for Trots to leech off) kids will go straight to the AF. Not join neccessarily (though we could easily have a youth section - it would suck), but read the material on the site and contact us through that, myspace, or here to discuss stuff. It definitely doesn't have the same attraction as the AYN, but its got 'anarchist' in the name and upsets yer mum ;)

Steven.

It wasn't an official AF thing. 2 young members did it. One with good politics left, I think he would've been pissing in the wind tbh, and the other was a class struggle activistoid like us.

I'm pretty sure one of these people wasn't in the AF when the AYN was set up but was in fact involved with the wombles and SAG at the time.

rkn

As shoes said in general though, i dont think AYN was all bad. After all libcom wouldnt be here without the AYN and so therefore it might have been the best thing ever ;)

Amen, Libcom is clearly life and better than most things:)

nastyned

Steven.

It wasn't an official AF thing. 2 young members did it. One with good politics left, I think he would've been pissing in the wind tbh, and the other was a class struggle activistoid like us.

I'm pretty sure one of these people wasn't in the AF when the AYN was set up but was in fact involved with the wombles and SAG at the time.

Yeah he told me that yesterday, I didn't realise. I will edit my article accordingly.

Steven.

the informal hierarchy thing

an issue worthy of its own thread?

newyawka

an issue worthy of its own thread?

only when someone cool enough suggests it ;)

ok, i'll see if i can get someone...send a few pm's...i'll get back...

newyawka

ok, i'll see if i can get someone...send a few pm's...i'll get back...

a networker hey ... you'll climb far in this 'horizontal' organisation :P

guydebordisdead

Probably a more important thread would be around how young anarchists can organise, what sort of stuff they should be involved in and how we can nurture (not in the bey sense) the youth who are drawn to anarchism.

Maybe I should've put something in there about it, but I'm not sure. Could do with a new discussion... but I think organisations having 2-tier memberships could be useful - one supporters, one full members, to give time for proper political education.

i think the informal hierarchy thing is important (and can be included in the thread Steven. just described) because it isn't easy building up a latitudinarian organization. people can learn by doing it, and perhaps often do, but it takes away energy if you have to break people in constantly to this mode.

Steven.

... we brought in rotating posts ... apart from some like web team...

hhahahahaaaahya

It meant the website was consistently the best thing about the organisation! :)

(after I stopped doing it)

Hmmm I dunno Tommy Ascaso, the site was pretty balls. Do you remember the 2 hippy girls in the banner? I think I still have that jpg somewhere...

the site never really had anything good on it, the only news it had up on it really were the accounts from palestine from E.

that said the forums were amazing, shat on this place. and did you ever go to the chat room? it was weird: rkn, jack, rosy and chloe talking all day using weird spellings and listening to royksopp.

Those hippy girls captured the mood of the time!

I wasn't saying the site was brilliant, but I think it was probably the best thing about the organisation, it got a lot of people involved and showed us the potential of websites for promoting political ideas and how forums could be used to discuss and organise. I can't honestly think of anything else the organisation did that I now think was worthwile, although had we not done it all we wouldn't be here now so I suppose it was worth it in the end.

I never used the chat room, 'cos I never left the forums, 1000 posts in a month, how fucking sad is that!

Tommy Ascaso

Those hippy girls captured the mood of the time!

ha true.

I wasn't saying the site was brilliant, but I think it was probably the best thing about the organisation

The first gathering was pretty cool, as was the minor anti-social behaviour. But yeah that's true actually

, it got a lot of people involved and showed us the potential of websites for promoting political ideas and how forums could be used to discuss and organise.

yeah I suppose I didn't think about the forums beforehand, they were good. And shite though the site was it did get people involved - like catch for example, ha ha.

I can't honestly think of anything else the organisation did that I now think was worthwile, although had we not done it all we wouldn't be here now so I suppose it was worth it in the end.

yeah true dat.

I never used the chat room, 'cos I never left the forums, 1000 posts in a month, how fucking sad is that!

Shit I'd forgotten that, it was legendary! That was a month you were single wasn't it?...

Steven.

And shite though the site was it did get people involved - like catch for example, ha ha.

This is true. I don't think I really looked at anything which wasn't the forums though.

I put that 'real anarchist youth' web page on my 'favourites' and now it's gone! :cry: :cry:

magnifico

I put that 'real anarchist youth' web page on my 'favourites' and now it's gone! :cry: :cry:

ta-da!
http://libcom.org.uk/lib/official-anarchist-youth/

Steven.

magnifico

I put that 'real anarchist youth' web page on my 'favourites' and now it's gone! :cry: :cry:

ta-da!
http://libcom.org.uk/lib/official-anarchist-youth/

I'm just getting a blank page from that. Now i'm sadder than ever :cry:

yeah something weird just happened with hosting ???

http://www.geocities.com/choked_victim/ayn.html

Yay! :cool:

JonnyT

http://www.geocities.com/choked_victim/ayn.html

god i love that site <3 :grin: