Ankara bombing

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Flint
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Mar 17 2016 20:09
Mark. wrote:

So that's the Tak rather than PKK claiming responsibility, which is what I was expecting in the first place. My assumption, without knowing much about the situation, is that the Tak would be acting independently and without any authorisation from the PKK. This might be something like the difference between dissident Irish republicans and IRA/Sinn Fein. Does that sound like an accurate assessment or am I getting this wrong?

You are getting it right.

There will be some who claim that the TAK is secretly PKK. But then the state of Turkey calls every Kurd (and some Turks) it doesn't like as "PKK".

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Devrim
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Mar 17 2016 22:52

I don't think this is an accurate comparison. I think the fact that a PKK leader spoke public ally about the target of this bomb before TAK claimed responsibility suggests that the PKK knew what was happening.

Devrim

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Sike
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Mar 17 2016 23:41
mollymew wrote:
It's called "the heat of battle". These kids were no more suicide bombers than any of the thousands (tens of thousands) of soldiers in numberless wars who have sacrificed themselves in numerous ways for the benefit of their comrades even though it was obvious that they'd be killed. There is a world of difference between them and the dupes who are sacrificed by their cunning lupine leaders and indoctrinated for often years for the task that has been plotted beforehand - by the leaders.

I get your point and I was only attempting to show that it takes a certain level of fanaticism to do something like blow oneself up for any reason, and also that that fanaticism doesn't necessarily always stem from hierarchical organization or simple brainwashing. Also, in saying this I am certainly not implying that the PKK's long standing guerrilla war with the state of Turkey is in anyway analogous to the autonomous movement of the Spanish working-classes that led to the revolution in Spain in 36.

In any case, I'll try to refrain from the historical analogizing in the future. It's lazy, generally confusing, often inaccurate, and is a poor way to foster dialogue. Unfortunately, It's a bad habit that I tend to indulge in at times.

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Fredo Corvo
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Mar 18 2016 08:28

Whoever is behind the bombings, PKK or a group manipulated by Erdogan’s secret service, we can see in all states and would-be states a general tendency towards war and efforts to promote nationalism as to bind ‘their’ populations, and especially ‘their own’ working class to the state or would-be state.

Terrorist bombings are no means of working class struggle.

It is the work of the bourgeoisie and its several nationalist factions, from national ‘liberation’ movements to leftist factions of the bourgeoisie and sheer manipulations of the state. Our present world is dominated by big and smaller gangs of criminals, fighting each other to the death. Only the working class has an alternative.

Ongoing strikes in Turkey show that workers can unite over borders of language, culture and nationality. In doing so the proletariat shows the way forward for humanity.

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mikail firtinaci
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Mar 19 2016 18:39

TAK is PKKs wing that operates in Western Turkey and mainly for the purpose of Terrorist attacks, pretty much like ISIS.

Ozcancan, a student, who was murdered in the recent attack was a friend of another suicide bomb attack victim. Ozcancan's close friend Ali Deniz was murdered in Ankara in October 15, 2015 attack organized by IS while he was waiting to join the peace march in protest against the state violence in Northern Kurdistan. Below is their last picture together, months before they were murdered separately, one by the IS the other by the PKK:

And yes Turkish left, as a miserable degenerate corpse, either falls behind PKK or Turkey. There is no genuine internationalist current in it. There are only those groups which keep quiet, and while having some mild criticisms for either of them, they keep to themselves. When it is most needed Turkish left is mostly quiet...

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Steven.
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Mar 18 2016 10:22
mikail firtinaci wrote:
TAK is PKKs wing that operates in Western Turkey and mainly for the purpose of Terrorist attacks, pretty much like ISIS.

do you have any links for more information/evidence about that? Sorry, just haven't heard of this before

Quote:
Ozcancan, a student, who was murdered in the recent attack was a friend of another suicide bomb attack victim. Ozcancan's close friend Ali Deniz was murdered in Ankara in October 15, 2015 attack organized by IS while he was waiting to join the peace march in protest against the state violence in Northern Kurdistan. Below is their last picture together, months before they were murdered separately, one by the IS the other by the PKK:

That is so tragic sad

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mikail firtinaci
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Mar 18 2016 10:55

TAK adheres to Ocalan as its spiritual leader, and it is a "known unknown" that TAK responds to the demands of the PKK - as Ocalanisms official party. TAK has dormant cells in western Turkish cities and time and again it carries out suicide attacks. Many independent writers and journalists are claiming that the purpose of recent TAK attacks in Ankara aimed to diffuse the State pressure on PKK in Kurdistan, threaten the government with force in case it tries to intervene directly in Rojava and bring the war to the west of the country. It is clearly a show of force. If one follows the declarations of and interviews done with the PKK leadership it would be plainly clear that PKK is forcing the state to recognize itself and if it does not, hints the PKK leaders, more radical "young" elements, a new generation of Kurdish national liberationists will take over the movement and they are not open to negotiation. So, obviously there is a hidden threat here.

There is no way to know the whole story though. And I don't think that it is necessary either, at least to form an opinion. PKK is anti-proletarian in principle. It does not aim communism and a classless, border free world. It does not even care about the proletarian lives lost.

In the recent urban warfare process in north Kurdistan (southeast Turkey), PKK pushed to the front the poorest and the most desperate urban Kurdish youth to their destruction at the hands of the state, while the daily lives of middle class Kurds in cities like Diyarbakir remained, depressed as they were, continued with little disruption. Even the class character of the conflict shows, how both PKK and Turkey are keenly careful not to disturb, as far as they can, the Kurdish middle class with all the violent bloodshed and destruction they mutually bring on to the Kurdish and eventually to the Turkish proletarians.

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Fredo Corvo
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Mar 18 2016 13:21

Mikail,

Thank you very much for your clear and informative comment, going beyond speculation and mere facts, showing how both PKK and Turkish government try to pursue their goals by not disturbing the middle class.

We should see as well, that in fact this middle class consist for a big part of more educated working class, much despised by most anarchists, leftists, operaist who consider only blue collar workers without fixed contracts as the proletariat.

In fact these educated parts of our class are an integral part of the proletariat and its reflections are unmistakingly important for the evolution of class consciousness.

In the actual phase of confusion, widespread and open discussions in the class as a whole are preparing a reply in the near future.

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scarface
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Mar 18 2016 22:38

It would be more realistic not to evaluate TAK as a “real, living” organisation. It is like a symptom. This symptom shows up mostly at the downtowns of big cities like İstanbul, izmir, ankara. These suicide attacks are mostly shocking and leads to harsh debates in the Turkish public opinion. I think this is what they actually want (to lead Turkish gov. to open democratic means to its legal wing hdp) . “Tak” is a taktic that pkk uses when it falls into difficult situation. For instance, after a bombing of Kandil by turkish planes where the pkk leaders are located (this last ankara bombing came after when turkish planes bombed kandil as far as I know). Or it is a missile attack after Turkish forces operate mercilessly against Kurds.

According to web, TAK was founded in 2004. From this time on, there are no more than nearly ten attacks claimed responsibility by TAK. The “organization” is called “Kurdistan Freedom Falcons”. Indeed, there are Kurdish stories on falcons and partridges. Kurds believe that they have been behaved like a “partridge” in history. That is their “national” destiny for centuries (this is what they believe in). They don’t want to be a “partridge” anymore. Even there is word for internal wars among Kurds called “brakuji” and you may know that the only animal which get trapped its races are partridges in order to survive. That is why, I think, they behave like falcons when they are in a bad situation (you know falcons are known for their hunting skills and being ruthless and it catches their prey once). And they lead to the death of their comrades by choosing them as suicide attackers which means they just behave them like “partridges”. The merciless dialectics ha?

There is also this reality that these suicide attacks play the role of easing Kurdish young radicals’ critics for pkk as being too moderate against the enemy (turkish government).
There is a misunderstanding that a unified international left alternative is missing in turkey. Indeed, kurdish question lies at the heart of it. The only way to counter the barbaric threats of radical Islamism in the middle east is to support kurdish led socialist revolutionary alternative. Turkish government uses the threat of ısıs against west as a bargaining tool and follows the strategy to isolate rojava and kurds just because Syrian kurds are internationalist and socialist. Rojava must be defended. It is the single alternative that today’s world socialists or internationalists may have. It is the only alternative against ısis barbarism. There is left only two alternative for us: the barbarism of ısis against socialism proposed by kurds. Where would you rather prefer to be? That’s all.

Coming to the picture that mikail posted. It is sad that we lost our comrades by two attacks with one difference. One of them was killed after an isis attack that turkish police intentionally teared gas on injured just after the bombing and the other comrade we lost after a kurdish attack intended to be against riot police in güvenpark that suicide bombers accidentally caused civilian deaths. We lost both of them in two attacks that is one is committed intentionally to destroy us, the latter is committed to reproduce us. The act is same but would be different results for different classes.

rooieravotr
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Mar 19 2016 12:35

On TAK, I encounterd this article:
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2016/02/turkey-outlawed-tak-will-not-deviate-line-of-ocalan.html

I found the link to it on radical left website in the Netherlands that I take serously. Wether the info in the article itself is reliable, I cannot say. But is t conforms a apicture in which TAK generally follows the PKK line, while operating independent from direct PKK con trol (so that the PKK can plausibly deny responsibility for PKK actions).

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mikail firtinaci
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Mar 19 2016 18:09

Another bombing in Taksim (one of the most visited centers of Istanbul) today. Everybody is scared to go out to the street. A horrible atmosphere of fear and terror reigns in major Turkish cities. I am afraid this will feed into open sectarian and nationalist violence. Everything is hinting that Turkey is heading towards an incredible social collapse. It is disgusting how the EU is supporting this bloody scenario by its tacit support for the Erdogan regime, just to kick the refugees out of Europe. "Barbarian Turks" are now the guardians of Europe against the poor and oppressed of the world outside. This is just nauseating.

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Steven.
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Mar 19 2016 18:15
mikail firtinaci wrote:
Another bombing in Taksim (one of the most visited centers of Istanbul) today. Everybody is scared to go out to the street. A horrible atmosphere of fear and terror reigns in major Turkish cities. I am afraid this will feed into open sectarian and nationalist violence.

Yes, so that on the news earlier. The bomb was in a busy shopping area, so don't think anyone is going to be able to make some weaselly effort to defend it saying it was aimed at police officers…

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mikail firtinaci
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Mar 19 2016 18:38
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Yes, so that on the news earlier. The bomb was in a busy shopping area, so don't think anyone is going to be able to make some weaselly effort to defend it saying it was aimed at police officers…

It is reported that this time it may be an IS bomber. In fact, it is claimed that some Israeli tourists might have been the target. AKP members are already expressing their happiness openly on social media about massacred Jews. It is crazy... Islamists, the state or Kurdish nationalists can kill anyone in Turkey and they can still show some sort of stupid ideological legitimization for that, and worse still, they can find someone to accept it.

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Khawaga
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Mar 19 2016 19:01
scarface wrote:
These suicide attacks are mostly shocking and leads to harsh debates in the Turkish public opinion. I think this is what they actually want (to lead Turkish gov. to open democratic means to its legal wing hdp) .

If that's want they intend to do with the bombings they are clearly off the loonie chart. Surely they must know that it leads to polarization and closing off any democratic road given that this is what always happens, not just in Turkey but nearly everywhere any such attacks are done (be it suicide bombings or another tactic).

Mark.
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Mar 19 2016 20:59

Unconfirmed reports of use of chemical weapons by Turkish forces. It isn't clear whether the reports are accurate or not.

https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/Gever?src=hash

https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/yüksekova?src=hash

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scarface
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Mar 19 2016 22:36

Today another suicide bombing attack happened just 1 km away from gezi park in taksim istanbul. 5 dead (all of them are foreigners including israelis and irish civils) and nearly 30 wounded. Among the woundeds, there are 12 foreigners.

Before newroz meetings in 21st of may (celebration of coming springtime as a hope for life for kurds), it seems that those acts are made to frighten people to go to the streets and to prevent people gather for protests. The bombing is another isis-turkish intellegence led operation. While they were killing foreigners in istanbul, they used chemical weapons against kurds in yuksekova at the same time causing 40 deaths-yet another "foreigners" for the islamist rulers in turkey. Indeed, the turkish government together with isis is playing a dangerous game by terrorizing not only turkey but also the whole world.

Reis (a noun used for the president similar to fuhrer) Erdogan openly defended hitler's germany as a regime just one month ago. This policy opens the way for the rising stupid ideologious (like trump type in the usa) and fascism in the west. It also helps sunni islamist to unite as a whole against west because of rising islamophobia thanks to isis attacks in paris and refugee crises which helps to divide ordinary people in europe.

This bombing happened just before turkish and iranian pm were to meet in istanbul. Turkey tries to get iran to its near in foreign policy against the so called west. They use this argument that you are either a muslim or a kafur. If you are a kafur like socialist kurds or turks, you have no chance to live and you must be destroyed. He is an anti-communist and anti-semitist. The only way to counter this is the international support for the rojava as it "represents" the alternative hope for a better world. If rojava falls, fascism wins. Pm davutoglu even talked about destroying sur (the center of kurdish located city diyarbekir where kurdish urban militias and turkish army made a one month long war in recent days) like toledo in spain in the 30s.

Scheveningen
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Mar 19 2016 23:35

According to Israeli intelligence today's attack was made by an IS affiliate (a Turkish national).

Mark. wrote:
This might be something like the difference between dissident Irish republicans and IRA/Sinn Fein. Does that sound like an accurate assessment or am I getting this wrong?

IRA/Sinn Fein has abandoned armed struggle, PKK hasn't, and TAK has never been very dissident (or displayed any autonomy, beyond having a different name). My impression was that it was more like the difference between Fatah and Black September. It offers plausible deniability.

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Fredo Corvo
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Mar 20 2016 20:23

Translation into English of a leaflet on the bombings, distributed in the Netherlands:
http://libcom.org/blog/bombings-suicide-terrorists-ankara-istanbul-20032...

Thank you all for forming our thoughts!