Fascism and anti-Fascism

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jef costello's picture
jef costello
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Oct 30 2018 21:05
meerov21 wrote:
jef costello
Perhaps communists and anarchists should spend more time sharing their ideas than fighting fascists. The people I have met who have engaged in anti-fascism did so as a direct strategic need and alongside other activism

The Communists? Sorry but What are you talking about? Ultra-leftist Communists, critics of Leninism, usually reject anti-fascism, using arguments partly similar to those I have cited. As for the supporters of Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky or Mao, they are the "red fascists", as the supporter of the autonomy of the Soviets Otto Rule and anarchist Vsevolod Volin (Mahno's ally) rightly wrote about it.

I am talking about people that I have met that identify as communists or anarchists, as I thought I had made abundantly clear, but I did fail to take into account your wilful misreading of anything you think that you disagree with so that you can trot out the same old arguments. No-one is arguing that we should form an "anti-fascist subculture" and ignore all other political action and when we have specifically stated that we do not believe in doing so, you have criticised us for doing so.

You are not a communist nor an anarchist, you are a bitter person who comes online to rant at people in the hope of feeling superior to them.

You are wasting everyone's time, much like when you went to a student meeting, and in spite of not being a student proceeded to tell them that they shouldn't have a meeting about what they had planned at that racism and gender were a waste of time and then called them racists for not listening to you.

If you haven't got anything useful to say then for everyone's sake stop posting until you do.

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jef costello
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Oct 30 2018 21:07
meerov21 wrote:
Yes, of course, if you talk about communism based on the principles of Autonomous struggle for a stateless society, it is not a mass movement either. But I, for example, believe that it is a way of qualitative radical change of the human universe. Once millions of people thought so, and perhaps so will be in the future, at least I see a chance for this. As for anti-fascism, I am not interested in it, as well as many people who are at the bottom of the social pyramid. I have been a poor worker in a democratic Republic. I'm not interested to fight for the preservation of such a life. Anti-fascism is an absolutely idiotic idea, because it offers to shed blood for the Republic and capitalism, it gives nothing to people like me.

Yes, anarchists and anti-authoritarian anti-Leninist Communists may have an agenda to fight against fascists, but this is only one of the areas of struggle and not the main one, and this struggle is not conducted for the values of tolerance.

But usually, when people talk about anti-fascism, they mean the unification of the left liberals, totalitarian groups (Stalinists, Maoists, etc.), the social-democrats, movements of some nationalist groups of ethnic minorities and some part of the anarchists. The main goal of this movement is the protection of bourgeois rights and freedoms, the Republic and tolerance. I have nothing against free speech, and I don't like racists, but such a movement is a common political bourgeois trash with elements of totalitarian influence.

tl;dr "I want to disagree with something, regardless of whether anyone has actually advocated it."

link
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Oct 30 2018 21:48

"But usually, when people talk about anti-fascism, they mean the unification of the left liberals, totalitarian groups (Stalinists, Maoists, etc.), the social-democrats, movements of some nationalist groups of ethnic minorities and some part of the anarchists. The main goal of this movement is the protection of bourgeois rights and freedoms, the Republic and tolerance. I have nothing against free speech, and I don't like racists, but such a movement is a common political bourgeois trash with elements of totalitarian influence."

Jef Costello quotes this paragraph Meerov submitted but what sort of reply does he/she give? Well nothing with any political content anyway, just thoughtless personal abuse.

So Jef, admittedly the last clause doesn't makes much sense, but the rest of it is very clear and carefully thought out. Are you able to provide a reasoned political response to a serious issue?

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Oct 30 2018 22:24
link wrote:
So Jef, admittedly the last clause doesn't makes much sense, but the rest of it is very clear and carefully thought out. Are you able to provide a reasoned political response to a serious issue?

I have, and others have, made a reasonable response, but meerov has simply ignored our posts and continued arguing against a position that no-one has. I am not sure how to respond to what is either trolling or a very pointless obsession.

moorov21 wrote:
The sky is blue and some people says it's green.

Quote:
No-one has said it's green, we actually think it's blue, light blue in fact.

moorov21 wrote:
Many people claim the sky is green, blah blah blah it's blue

Quote:
We know the sky is blue, light blue in fact. Whom are you arguing with?

moorov21 wrote:
Liars claimed the skies were green, you are siding with liarsif you say they are green.

Quote:
Nope, still think the sky is light blue.

moorov21 wrote:
You say the sky is blue but then you qualify it, blah blah blah I am going to rant about green skies. And how can anyone say the sky is not blue.

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Actually it's gone dark now, I can't believe I wasted daylight on you.

link
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Oct 31 2018 01:25

In reality, your answer is no then Jef. How unexpected!

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Oct 31 2018 02:11
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Good stuff, Meeov, till the last two paragraphs. "Anti-fascism" today is an anachronism since fascism was a historical product of the inter-world-war period that it is not going to be repeated (because conditions are not the same today) and so is not a threat. Today "anti-fascism" as such can only be, as you hint, warfare between two rival street gangs, a re-enactment at street level of the last wold war. Nor are far-right parties with any significant support "fascist"; they are racist and xenophobic.

????? The Colonels Coup in Greece was in 1967 and both Franco's Spain and Salazar's Portugal lasted into the 70s. And there's also the entrenchment of thousands of active Neo-fascists in the Italian security services and paramilitaries in the strategy of tension period. That's just the ones off the top of my head.

alb
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Oct 31 2018 08:31

Spikey, you asked a question and I gave a straight answer: that nobody would say that people in an area under threat of attack by hooligans coming in to throw stones though their windows or slash their car tyres should not organise in self-defence to stop this; and that this would happen anyway as an elementary spontaneous reaction and nothing to do with conventional (or vanguardist) politics. You chose to reply with a cheap debating point and fantasising about the police joining in such attacks (a completely hypothetical situation in Britain where, if they intervened , it would be to help the residents).

Spikymike
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Oct 31 2018 11:45

Really alb read my posts more carefully. I didn't mention 'the police' or the immediate situation in the UK, but do take a look at some very different situations in the recent past and even today across the globe, and try to distinguish collective defense of class struggle (as for instance in the last big Uk miners strike) from individual acts of 'hooliganism'.
As to ''cheap debating points'' go back to your 'cheap' digs about street fighting man etc. We know each other well enough comrade not to write in such off hand comments in a public forum of this kind.

Mike Harman
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Oct 31 2018 13:18

that nobody would say that people in an area under threat of attack by hooligans coming in to throw stones though their windows or slash their car tyres should not organise in self-defence to stop this
...
You chose to reply with a cheap debating point and fantasising about the police joining in such attacks (a completely hypothetical situation in Britain where, if they intervened , it would be to help the residents).

This is not a hypothetical situation, far right groups have attacked local communities plenty of times.

For a very recent example, the EDL broke windows and invaded Big John's fast food in Leicester, customers ended up locking themselves in the kitchen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxdTEVzzr_s (in this case the police did not join in).

Cable street was between the local working class and both police and fascists.

There are plenty of cases of people being arrested for self-defense against the far right, the Bradford 12 is a prominent one: https://libcom.org/library/self-defence-no-offence-bradford-12 This was the NF coming into Bradford specifically to terrorise residents, not set pieces.

Blair Peach was killed by police during a counter-demonstration against the National Front in Southall. A bit more of a set piece demo but also very much in a local community.

Several recent car attacks on Mosques, some of these people were radicalised via people like Tommy Robinson online:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/cricklewood-mosque-crash-lat...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/finsbury-park-mosque-terror-...
Drive by shooting: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-43682135

Then for just the police attacking local communities, the tasering of a police race relations adviser in Bristol, then this subsequent harassment this year: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-45911693

Or this beating in Birmingham: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-arrest-video-aston-bi...

And recent police killings like Edson da Costa, Rashan Charles, Darren Cumberbatch.

Is it mass street fighting by the far right in local communities backed up by the police? No not quite at the moment, but it's also not something to be written off so glibly.

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Oct 31 2018 14:48

No need to go back to Bradford, the Rotherham 12 case only finally concluded this year: https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/rotherham-12-pakistani-community-so...

Link: it's impossible to respond politically to meerov's posts because there's no real specific political content in them. A critique of antifascism that doesn't make it clear whether it's talking about SUTR or the General Defense Committee is about as much use as a critique of the unions where you can't tell if they're on about USDAW or the CNT.

alb
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Oct 31 2018 19:52

OK, the police in Britain don't always help residents under attack but they don't join in the attacks (as Spiky hypothesised).

Incidentally, any thoughts on why the British Secret Service has become "anti-fascist"?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/28/mi5-lead-battle-against-...

meerov21
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Oct 31 2018 22:12

link
Oct 31 2018 05:25
In reality, your answer is no then Jef. How unexpected!

This is an example of how somebody see freedom of speech. He made no substantive reply to my remarks and moved on to personal insults. This is expected. Seriously, I see the antifa movement is nothing but a specific street subculture. It is possible that it can protect certain areas from right-wing violence. This is a good thing.
But Anti-fascism is fixed on one problem, which he considers the most important - the fight against the right wing. A certain youth subculture is emerging, involving street violence, clashes with right-wing hooligans, and anti-racism and human right left-liberal propaganda.

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Oct 31 2018 22:21
Quote:
This is an example of how somebody see freedom of speech. He made no substantive reply to my remarks and moved on to personal insults. This is expected.

What on earth has this got to do with the freedom of speech (which in any case is at best a bourgeois illusion)?

Quote:
Seriously, I see the antifa movement is nothing but a specific street subculture... But Anti-fascism is fixed on one problem, which he considers the most important - the fight against the right wing. A certain youth subculture is emerging, involving street violence, clashes with right-wing hooligans, and anti-racism and human right left-liberal propaganda.

Yet again, ascribing views to Jef that he doesn't have. I mean, you were a broken record before, but at least the album would play out, now the needle is just stuck in the same few grooves. It is, as the new favourite epithet of the alt right says, as if you're just an NPC.

link
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Oct 31 2018 23:25

I know there is bad history between Meerov and some of the posters on libcom, but I don’t know how it started or what it is. Most importantly in this thread and others recently, I can only see highly personalised insults and abuse against somebody who is writing in a foreign language and making a effort to make serious political points.

The lack of attempt to discuss seriously is appalling and as usual the admins do nothing about it.

I would therefore ask the question to Khawaga, Fleur, jef Costello, black badger, noah fence then; would you get involved in anti-fascist activities in cooperation with the likes of the Labour Party, trotskyist organisations, Maoists, Stalinist communist parties and trades unions and would you join or support the anti-fascist campaigns that they organise??

It appears from a post above that Reddebrek would certainly unite with the above left wing capitalist organistions

RC Totale suggest there is nothing to respond to because Meerov doesn’t mention SUTR or GDC. I thank him/her for the explaining a response but I don’t agree that these have to be mentioned for I simply see a valid, general criticism was being made of anti-fascism esp in the paragraph I quoted in post 34. Are you or Is anybody willing to agree with this statement, if not how do you disagree? As the SUTR was brought up, who will be supporting this campaign (and why?) and join the march it is calling for on November 17th ?

Reddebrek implies it would have been right to achieve more liberal bourgeois regimes in Spain Portugal etc so presumably he will join up to support left wing capitalism.

Does that also mean he says it is right to support the British Empire against German Absolutism and German Fascism?

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Oct 31 2018 23:39
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I can only see highly personalised insults and abuse against somebody who is writing in a foreign language and making a effort to make serious political points.The lack of attempt to discuss seriously is appalling and as usual the admins do nothing about it.

His English is not an issue at all, he has a good grasp of it and writes better than many native speakers. Meerov also engages in personal insults, indeed in a comment above, which has been unpublished by an admin (together with my response), he tried to insult me by referring to my mother (which is just too funny).

But the point is that Meerov has repeatedly proven to not actually discuss, but almost always choose to build straw men, engage with positions that he ascribes to people. It's now a pretty predictable what he will argue on this particular point. People are fed up with this.

Fleur
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Nov 1 2018 00:19

I think the weird history between Meerov and a number of posters, including myself, stems from him spouting unsubstantiated claims about him being the victim of reverse racism, whining about uppity minorities who raise issues of race, gender and other issues which generally don't bother cis white straight dudes. Then there was the homophobia. Also his all pervasive victimhood when he gets pulled up on his nonsense, like the third hand account of something which almost certainly didn't happen to someone else on a different continent.

As for the question, personally I wouldn't organise with the above mentioned groups. However, unlike Meerov I'm not refuting the existence of fascism. Desperate times make strange bedfellows. Things are beginning to look pretty damned desperate to me.

Anyway, all I did in this thread was to point out Meerov's weird obsession with race and gender, which is very odd given he doesn't care one little thing about thes things. Protests too much perhaps.

bastarx
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Nov 1 2018 00:29

It's hardly surprising that someone whose views are about a bee's dick away from fascism is against anti-fascism.

Fleur
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Nov 1 2018 00:48

Anyway questions of ideological purity, turning to Spain, as it inevitably does, you think that a more liberal bourgeois regime wasn't preferable to the thousands in unmarked graves, their children wrenched from them and raised by sadistic nuns, the complete stranglehold of the church on every aspect of society, the utter subordination of women, the political prisoners? Spain was the one that got away but the all or nothing ideological dogmatism which denies people the way of improving their material conditions in the here and now is just romanticising a fantasy, the great thing that was. Was. As in not anymore.

meerov21
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Nov 1 2018 10:33

Fleur However, unlike Meerov I'm not refuting the existence of fascism.

It's very common form of lying of a community of several persons that constantly insults different people on this forum. Of course, I do not reject the existence of fascism.

***

As for anti-fascism, I discuss its most widespread forms. And he is exactly what he is - a coalition of left liberals, Stalinists and Leninists (different forms and types of red fascists), social-democrats and some of the anarchists.This is bourgeois-liberal compote with elements of totalitarian ideas. Part of the antifa are representatives of youth subcultures, which like street fights with the Nazis. Perhaps somewhere there are some marginal groups. who understand anti-fascism as something completely different and have nothing to do with these forms of activity. But it is some kind of marginals and I'm not very interested to discuss it. Why shood i? OK, maybe they have 10 people who are not involved in the typical activity of anti-fascists, but do something else. Good for you. Good Luck.

Khawaga
What on earth has this got to do with the freedom of speech (which in any case is at best a bourgeois illusion)?

What do people like these do? Not only him and not only in this forum, but everywhere they try to silence their opponents by switching to insults, as well as by accusing opponents of sexism-homophobia-racism as Fleur did. It's typical. They want to paralyze in this way any discussion when they have nothing to answer or theu want expel opponents. If I answer in the style of "you are a fool", it will be the termination of the discussion and the transition to the flow of insults. This is what they want.

Freedom of speech was the most important requirement of libertarian uprisings against the Bolsheviks in Russia. There can be no real discussion without freedom of speech, which means that direct labor democracy cannot work.

Fleur
I think the weird history between Meerov and a number of posters, including myself, stems from him spouting unsubstantiated claims about him being the victim of reverse racism, whining about uppity minorities who raise issues of race, gender and other issues which generally don't bother cis white straight dudes

P.S. I am not realy white, I am Jewish by origin. (I am no more and no less white than the 6 million European Ashkenazi Jews killed by the Nazis). They are referring to a case of my friend, a well-known Jewish journalist Mikhail Dorfman, who told that he was subjected to dirty anti-semitic insults at a meeting at an American University. Then some people in this forum expressed outrage at anti-Semitism, but others did not listen.

Mike Harman
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Nov 1 2018 10:39
link wrote:
RC Totale suggest there is nothing to respond to because Meerov doesn’t mention SUTR or GDC. I thank him/her for the explaining a response but I don’t agree that these have to be mentioned for I simply see a valid, general criticism was being made of anti-fascism esp in the paragraph I quoted in post 34. Are you or Is anybody willing to agree with this statement, if not how do you disagree? As the SUTR was brought up, who will be supporting this campaign (and why?) and join the march it is calling for on November 17th ?

A couple of weekends ago, there was a 'Democratic Football Lads Alliance' march in central London. The DFLA is not a properly fascist organisation but there are a lot of far-right individuals involved and it could very easily grow into one.

SUTR (a front for the SWP) and Momentum organised a rally with speeches from people like Owen Jones, which remained firmly behind police lines, with no intention of blocking the march.

On the other hand about 30 different groups from around the UK organised a separate demo (including groups like the AFN and Plan C) with a separate starting point and were able to block the march.

The grassroots attempts to actually disrupt fascist organising and marches in the UK are very specifically organising separately from the SWP/UAF/SUTR and Momentum. This is partly a result of the no-platforming of the SWP over its coverup of rape by a central committee member, and partly due to their willingness to co-operate with the police, using anti-fascism and front groups as a way to recruit etc.

While there are tendencies for anti-fascist organising to end up supporting the left-wing of capital, there are also tendencies for workplace organising to support the left wing of capital. Both you and meerov substitute a critique of anti-fascism for a blanket dismissal and often strawmanning of any activity taken to disrupt fascist organising or defend against it.

link wrote:
Reddebrek implies it would have been right to achieve more liberal bourgeois regimes in Spain Portugal etc so presumably he will join up to support left wing capitalism.

I see that pointing out the continuity of pre and post-war fascist regimes against ahistorical definitions is... supporting the British Empire now.

Mike Harman
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Nov 1 2018 10:57
meerov21 wrote:
Not only him and not only in this forum, but everywhere they try to silence their opponents by switching to insults, as well as by accusing opponents of sexism-homophobia-racism as Fleur did. It's typical. They want to paralyze in this way any discussion when they have nothing to answer or theu want expel opponents. ...
Freedom of speech was the most important requirement of libertarian uprisings against the Bolsheviks in Russia. There can be no real discussion without freedom of speech, which means that direct labor democracy cannot work.

Meerov, is freedom of speech when people aren't allowed to have opinions about your views and method of argumentation?

Fleur
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Nov 1 2018 11:01

Meerov, you regularly dismiss, devalue and belittle other people's struggles as being divisive and unimportant (to you) so how would you have other people frame your position? The very best I could say would be that you completely lack empathy. You don't care about race, gender, sexuality (of other people - you seem to be pretty concerned with your own.) if you don't care, why are you so fixated on these things? If you don't care about the struggle of other people, why the hell are you a communist anyway?
You have freedom of speech here. You don't have the freedom to insist that everyone agrees with you or are not allowed express that disagreement. I'm currently exercising my freedom of speech to pull you up on your bullshit. And don't be such a goddamn baby, crying victim because people think you're talking nonsense.

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Noah Fence
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Nov 1 2018 11:46

Link and Meerov

My post was not meant as an insult at all but merely as an observation. I have and never have had any involvement with Antifa and know practically nothing about it. But no, the idea of organising with your list of ne’er do wells would definitely play second fiddle to sticking pins in my eyes and cutting my nipples off with a pair of rusty scissors.
Having gone toe to toe with the majority on Libcom many times, I’m the last person to berate anyone that comes on here with a different view to the general concensus, in fact I actively encourage it and wish there was a lot more of it! However, when the views expressed are weird conspiracy theories about identity politics that conflate working class solidarity expressed by anarchists with bourgeois liberal Tumbleresque idpol wank then I’m gonna call it out. It comes across as a leftist twist on the Jordan Peterson/Paul Joseph Watson anti SJW hysteria that pervades the rest of the internet. We don’t need it here even if it comes in its mutant commie form.

meerov21
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Nov 1 2018 11:52
Fleur wrote:
Meerov, you regularly dismiss, devalue and belittle other people's struggles as being divisive and unimportant (to you) so how would you have other people frame your position? The very best I could say would be that you completely lack empathy. You don't care about race, gender, sexuality (of other people - you seem to be pretty concerned with your own.) if you don't care, why are you so fixated on these things? If you don't care about the struggle of other people, why the hell are you a communist anyway?
You have freedom of speech here. You don't have the freedom to insist that everyone agrees with you or are not allowed express that disagreement. I'm currently exercising my freedom of speech to pull you up on your bullshit. And don't be such a goddamn baby, crying victim because people think you're talking nonsense.

It's typical for people like you. You use your ability to insult other forum members. This is part of the custom in this forum where people like you can continuously insult others, but the moderator doesn't stop you. In doing so, you seek to turn the discussion into a stream of insults, and thereby destroy it. Then, you hope that the moderator will delete me (because he is sympathetic to you and encourages you) or close the topic I opened, since it is a lot of swearing.

And Yes I don't care about race, gender, sexuality of my comrades in the movement, supporters of the social-revolutionary class ideas. Because I believe that the focus of the struggle should be on the class and the local community, organized on the principles of direct labor democracy of people of any race and gender.

I admit that there may be special sections that, for example, will deal with specific women's issues or national issues, for example by publishing a newspaper in the language of an ethnic minority. However, these problems must be addressed in such a way that they are subordinated to the main goal and the main principle.

But you're not my comrades in the movement. You are an enemy, although, of course, a minor and a third-rate enemy, in comparison with "world imperialism" wink . However, I am not against adequate discussions with the enemy, because they help me understand some important things.

So I suggest you stop insulting me, stop lying, calm yourself down, very carefully calm yourself down, and try to speak more or less adequately if you want to. I think after Karl Popper, that hostile communication may come up with interesting ideas. And Yes, I think the most important thing is the class struggle and the struggle of the local community, but I don't like racism and anti-Semitism.

meerov21
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Nov 1 2018 11:57

Mike Harman No, you can have any opinion about my views. But this is not the same as moving on to direct insults and discussion of my personality.

Mike Harman
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Nov 1 2018 12:03
meerov wrote:
I admit that there may be special sections that, for example, will deal with specific women's issues or national issues, for example by publishing a newspaper in the language of an ethnic minority.

meerov wrote:
And Yes I don't care about race, gender, sexuality of my comrades in the movement

To support publishing a newspaper in multiple languages or dealing with issues facing women etc., then you do need to 'care about' the racialisation and gendering of your comrades. To enable people to focus on real issues facing them, you also need to have some kind of understanding and empathy with those issues. And if in fact you do have those things, do you think loudly announcing that you don't all the time is a good way to communicate this?

Fleur
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Nov 1 2018 15:39

Meerov, I am very calm, don't be so patronising. It is very obvious that you don't care about different oppressions experienced by people other than yourself. I have to agree with you on something though - spot on, you are not my Comrade. You are expounding the very sentiments which prevent our movement from expanding beyond a small clique.

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jef costello
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Nov 1 2018 18:42
meerov21 wrote:
Part of the antifa are representatives of youth subcultures, which like street fights with the Nazis. Perhaps somewhere there are some marginal groups. who understand anti-fascism as something completely different and have nothing to do with these forms of activity. But it is some kind of marginals and I'm not very interested to discuss it. Why shood i? OK, maybe they have 10 people who are not involved in the typical activity of anti-fascists, but do something else. Good for you. Good Luck..

I mentioned having met antifa members earlier and described, them, you completely ignored this, as you have everything else, so let me ask you this:

Why do you think antifa is a youth street gang? Have you met any members? Have you had any discussions with them? Have you any idea what they believe?

I ask because you have characterised anti-fascism and antifa and said that you will not discuss any other interpretation of them because it is incorrect, so, in the simplest terms possible:

why do you believe antifa is this way?

Please don't talk about Stalin or Spain, these are interesting topics, but they are not what we are talking about.

meerov21
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Nov 1 2018 20:33

Mike Harman

meerov wrote:
I admit that there may be special sections that, for example, will deal with specific women's issues or national issues, for example by publishing a newspaper in the language of an ethnic minority.

meerov wrote:
And Yes I don't care about race, gender, sexuality of my comrades in the movement

Mike Harman
To support publishing a newspaper in multiple languages or dealing with issues facing women etc., then you do need to 'care about' the racialisation and gendering of your comrades

No. I am not interested in the race and gender of like-minded people associated with social revolutionary ideas and comrades in the movement. I will give an example. Once (it seems, in 1980) there were negotiations between delegations of the USSR and the USA about some minor question, like cultural exchange (or something else I don't remember). The representative of the USSR delegation said: "You Americans accuse the Communist party leadership of anti-semitism. Here you can see this is not true: in our delegation of 15 people there are 2 Jews. How many Jews are in your delegation?". The American shrugged his shoulders and said: "Mr. Smirnov, we did not ask the participants about their origin when we offered them to work in our delegation."

The head of the delegation of the USSR like all the leadership of the Communist party was an anti-Semitic bastard. He, like all of them, carefully watched that the Jews did not get a good position in the state. However, he used the Jews where he needed them. The head of the American delegation was not anti-semitic. He was interested in the professional qualities and political (socio-cultural) ideas of his colleagues, not their origin, and he was not interested in whether they were Jews or not.

In fact, the Communists formally proclaimed the same thing (we were taught this at school) : "No matter what race or nationality you have, the main thing is that you are a good person or not, or, if we are talking about a factory, a good worker or not. Only a racist and nationalist tries to find out the nationality of a colleague specifically, and for a normal person it is indecent". And You know what? I absolutely agree with this opinion.

Of course, the Communists were hypocrites, of course their leadership and many local leaders thought in another way. But many people in the USSR really thought that it was indecent to be interested in the nationality of a colleague if he did not speak and I fully agree with that. To think otherwise is racist savagery, barbarism in my opinion .

That's what I mean.

On the other hand, what if a colleague had been subjected to a racist attack? Or was the woman beaten by her husband? Of course, in this case we will have to support these people. Moreover, What if some of the workers do not speak Russian? Once upon a time I participated in attempts of social - revolutionary agitation of migrant workers on construction sites. We are faced with the fact that some of them do not understand Russian. We wanted to make leaflets in Uzbek, Tajik and Kyrgyz, for them, but we could not. And it really was a very serious problem. But the solution of these issues should serve the main purpose - the social revolutionary unity and libertarian class struggle.

Mike Harman
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Joined: 7-02-06
Nov 1 2018 21:10
Meerov wrote:
We wanted to make leaflets in Uzbek, Tajik and Kyrgyz, for them, but we could not.

To know that you need to do that, you'd need to know their first language, and therefore be interested in that information at the moment. If you just say "I don't care what your first language is" then you're ignoring an actual accessibility issue. Similarly booking a second floor meeting space with no lift when someone planning to attend is in a wheelchair would be a sure sign that you "don't care" that they're in a wheelchair.

Meerov wrote:
You Americans accuse the Communist party leadership of anti-semitism. Here you can see this is not true: in our delegation of 15 people there are 2 Jews.

Yes this is the 'I have a black friend' defence for racism, but the opposite of this is not, "I don't care if you're black or not".

There is a very common defence that racists use after someone notices that they've said something racist, and it goes "I don't care if you're black, white, yellow, green, purple" - that phrase specifically erases how racism actually functions in society (i.e. racism against black people functions differently to that against asians, anti-Semitism is different again, blue and purple people don't exist). https://slate.com/human-interest/2016/06/why-you-should-care-if-you-don-... has a few examples.