Admin: thread split from https://libcom.org/discussion/anti-trump-movement-thread
adri wrote:
Jeremy Brecher posted on his PM Press blog, a piece titled "Social Self-Defense: From Protest to Movement-Based Opposition". To me it reads not much different than what the main progressive/liberal groups organizing No Kings are saying. Like seemingly most who were once part of the councilist influenced Root & Branch group, his politics have moderated over the years.
If I recall correctly, he also implied police could be class allies in the latest version of Strike!. Nothing against Brecher or his book, but it is bit of a blemish on an otherwise great work. At least the No Kings protests are better than nothing (if even...), which is usually what we can expect from the Democratic/centrist types.
I don't recall wording like…
I don't recall wording like that in the book. Do you remember which bit specifically you're talking about?
I mentioned it in the…
I mentioned it in the comment section on the Strike! page, but it's this bit referring to the 2011 protests in Wisconsin (which preceded the Occupy movement) against a state bill that attacked collective bargaining rights for state workers, among other things:
Just to muddy the waters,…
Just to muddy the waters, there was a bit in a documentary on the Spanish Civil War where a cop explained they couldn’t go along with orders to suppress the CNT-FAI in Barcelona, as they had spilt blood together.
I think the only time when…
I think the only time when we can seriously speak of "class solidarity" between the police and actual workers is when the former stop being police and cross over to join workers (the same applies to the military). You can't really speak of "class solidarity" when the police are just being "strategically gentle or conciliatory" with protesters, especially when a harsher approach might escalate protests, or when they set up some "Cops 4 Labor" group. If the police who sympathized with the protesters were ordered to clear them away (or to not join in, which I'm assuming they were to some degree), then we could have easily seen which side they were actually on. I'm also not sure about all the details of the 2011 Wisconsin protests, but I imagine that city officials or whatever authority could have removed the capitol police chief had there actually been serious pressure on him to crack down on the demonstrators. In that scenario, if he then refused to act accordingly and was removed, then I think we could potentially talk about "class solidarity" (or more accurately: the defenders of the bourgeois order crossing over and joining the ranks of the working class), but that's not what happened. The capitol police chief seems to have instead freely resigned in 2012. We also can't really speak of "class solidarity" when lower-level police are just following orders from above and are instructed to not act aggressively, seeing as how that's hardly some genuine expression of support for protesters.
Despite the criticisms from some Wisconsin Republicans, it seems that other Republicans also praised the capitol police chief for his non-aggressive approach at the time, including the governor's secretary of administration:
It also seems like the governor himself was more or less in agreement with the police chief's non-aggressive approach, seeing as how his spokesperson praised him around the same time too:
So yeah, I'm not at all convinced by Brecher's argument that the 2011 Wisconsin protests provide an example of "class solidarity" between workers and police, especially when the two are fundamentally and structurally at odds with one another within capitalist society.
JC, would be interested to…
JC, would be interested to hear your take on Brecher's argument. It does seem perhaps exaggerated or based more on wishful thinking than what actually happened
As I said in the other…
As I said in the other thread, I was in Wisconsin during this time and I do not really agree with Brecher.
It is true that the police were less aggressive and less prone to brutality and arrests during the time the movement was active. I don't think this is necessarily because there was some kind of widespread sympathy by the cops for the movement. I think there were other factors
-The movement was partially kicked off when state senate Democrats fled the state, thus paralyzing the state senate from being able to pass the bill that would have severely limited public sector collective bargaining rights. So the movement was always associated with one of the two main political parties in the state. I'm not sure if that would matter in 2025, but I think it mattered in 2011.
-Madison, Wisconsin has a long history of activism and building occupations and I would bet that the police there have strategies for dealing with that are different than other places.
-The participants in the movement were overwhelmingly working class or 'middle class' white people, often older. It is one thing if everyone sees a cop beat up a skinny 20something black bloc kid, or someone black or Latino/a. It's another thing entirely to club a 55 year old white high schoolteacher from Sun Prairie or a 42 year old Ironworker from Waukesha. Cops absolutely respond differently based on demographics. This is why we often had a tall middle aged white guy be the person dealing with police when doing pickets or protests in the Twin Cities IWW.
Thanks for that insight. I…
Thanks for that insight.
I guess one thing I really should know but don't, is how are decisions made on general policing responses protests.
Are they made by the police hierarchy, or are they made more by local politicians, like the mayor/governor.
I'm not really sure whereabouts the bulk of decision-making is here.
Either way, I think the only thing which would lean towards what Brecher is suggesting would be if police were ordered to attack but didn't. But there doesn't seem to be any evidence of that whatsoever.
I also don't really…
I also don't really understand why he skipped over the mill girls (textile workers) in the early nineteenth century and instead started with the 1870s. There is definitely plenty of material there (and "turn-outs"/strikes!) to write about for that part of American labor history (e.g. the 1845 Allegheny Cotton Mill Strike). Ware's book The Industrial Worker and Foner's book The Factory Girls (primary source collection) are two works that deal with this period.
Brecher argues that strikes were relatively rare until after the Civil War, which is something I don't really agree with at all:
I could point to numerous instances of workers striking during the first half of the nineteenth century (e.g. textile workers in Lowell, Allegheny and Fall River), so I don't think it's at all accurate to describe them as rare occurences. Sarah Bagley and other women textile workers in fact formed one of the first women labor unions within the US during this time (the Lowell Female Labor Reform Association). Nonetheless, I still appreciate Brecher's contribution to American labor history.
Yeah I agree with you to an…
Yeah I agree with you to an extent, that that history of women organising is vitally important. However, I don't really think that's a fair critique of Brecher's book, because his book is specifically a study of mass strikes – i.e. strikes of wage workers which may have begun on a local level but then escalated, either spreading across the whole country, or to multiple states, or escalating to insurrectionary levels.
So based on those criteria, I think he seems justified in starting with the Great Upheaval of 1877.
Fair enough, it's been a…
Fair enough, it's been a while since I read Brecher's book, so I must have overlooked how he was specifically concerned with "mass strike" events. I still don't feel it's accurate to describe strikes as rare occurrences before the Civil War though, or even small in nature. The strike in Allegheny for example included around 4,000 operatives,[1] and there were also discussions to link this struggle up with the struggles of textile workers in New England as part of the broader Ten-Hour Movement:
However, I don't think much ever really came from these discussions by workers in Pennsylvania and New England to unite against the manufacturing system. According to Ware, who deals with this strike in his book, it seems like things sort of fizzled out:
Similarly, it's not really accurate of Brecher to describe the Great Upheaval of 1877 as the first event that brought to the country's attention a new class of wage-workers:
Virtually everyone in the north was aware of the rise of the manufacturing system, centered primarily around the textile industry (Lowell is literally nicknamed the "City of Spindles"), during the first half of the nineteenth century. Countless periodicals and newspapers dealt with the rise of the factory system and criticized it from every possible angle (e.g. the Voice of Industry and the Harbinger). They drew attention, for example, to the appalling condition of the operatives and attacked the capitalists themselves for enriching themselves through other people's labor, which they argued was not very Christian given how they were indolent and did not earn such gains "by the sweat of their own brow." Slavery's advocates in the south (e.g. George Fitzhugh) similarly cited the condition of northern factory operatives as an argument against freeing slaves, claiming that slaveholders supposedly "treated their slaves better" than the manufacturers who had no obligation to look after their wage-workers. The factory system, together with the new class of propertyless wage-workers, was actually a major topic of discussion within the US well before the Great Upheaval of 1877.
1. Other sources, such as Ware's book, place the number at around 5,000 (p. 141).